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Thread: FAA, Drone Racers/FPV Pilots Now Required To Have A Remote Pilot Airman Certificate.

  1. #31
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    Looks as if Wayne is correct. The AMA isn't saying it's legal, they're simply saying that it's "acceptable" to them. What I take this to mean is that the AMA won't object to you breaking the law but by the same token, they can't indemnify you from it. If the FAA choose to prosecute you, you're on your own.

    And I absolutely HATE laws which remain in effect even though they're not enforced. To my mind, if the enforcement authority chooses not to enforce a law then they are complicit in the breaking of that law and should be charged with being party to any offense that occurs with their knowledge but is not investigated and acted upon.

    The problem with this kind of law is that it is incredibly open to abuse by those who do the enforcement. "You're a mate, it's okay, I won't charge you but I don't like him so I'll throw the book at him for doing exactly the same thing" -- if you get my drift.

    If a rule/law/regulation is not going to be enforced then it should be struck out as a bad rule/law/regulation.

  2. #32
    Instructor Pilot Channel 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjet View Post
    And I absolutely HATE laws which remain in effect even though they're not enforced. To my mind, if the enforcement authority chooses not to enforce a law then they are complicit in the breaking of that law and should be charged with being party to any offense that occurs with their knowledge but is not investigated and acted upon.

    The problem with this kind of law is that it is incredibly open to abuse by those who do the enforcement. "You're a mate, it's okay, I won't charge you but I don't like him so I'll throw the book at him for doing exactly the same thing" -- if you get my drift.
    That is so true.

    Not that I have any doubts the charged below was dirty, the abuse of the system by the AUSA was over the top of that.

    https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/890601/download

    Sadly, only those who have the funding to fight or are politically connected, win against the government.

    Wayne
    Last edited by Channel 1; 8th September 2016 at 05:08 PM.
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  3. #33
    FPV Browncoat prelator's Avatar
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    I completely agree. That kind of broad ranging enforcement discretion directly contradicts the fundamental principle of the rule of law upon which all modern democracies are founded. Classically, that principle is defined as being governed by written laws which apply the same ways to all people, and are enforced equally by the state. Its antithesis is arbitrary rule by the whim monarchs or bureaucrats who make up the law as they go and are free to apply the law one way to one person and a different way to another. It is the latter which defines the essence of the modern regulatory state, making it anathema to democracy itself.
    ~Patrick M.

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  4. #34
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    ok so let me get this straight... because of a Forbes article this dummy chart is no longer valid? It would be prudent information to include a ban on FPV right here if that was their intent.
    https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by prelator View Post
    Its antithesis is arbitrary rule by the whim monarchs or bureaucrats who make up the law as they go and are free to apply the law one way to one person and a different way to another. It is the latter which defines the essence of the modern regulatory state, making it anathema to democracy itself.
    It's not modern at all, it's cyclical, this public corruption and prosecutorial abuse has been around since the Republic was founded, the problem is people don't study or learn history all that much, so guess what they do, they tend to repeat it hoping for a better result than the last time someone tried.

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    Wayne
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  6. #36
    Parochial Nimrod Steezus's Avatar
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    I'll take the AMA's advice before I take the advice from some random old guy on the internet. FPV has always been a giant great area before just like it is now. If you were deemed unsafe now, it is no different than before.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    ok so let me get this straight... because of a Forbes article this dummy chart is no longer valid? It would be prudent information to include a ban on FPV right here if that was their intent.
    https://www.faa.gov/uas/getting_started/
    The FAA knew that they were restricted (by Act of Congress) from passing new rules to regulate model aircraft so they went through the back door and simply revised the definition of what a model aircraft is. The condition that a model aircraft must be kept within visual line of sight now means that (arguably) as soon as you put on a set of FPV glasses, your RC model becomes an RPAS/UAS or whatever the acronym of the day happens to be. As an RPAS, the FAA can regulate the snot out of it without violating that act of congress.

    It seems to me that the FAA have effectively given themselves the ability to ban FPV at the drop of a hat by simply defining "visual line of sight" to be that of the pilot, not an observer or other person. If they choose to do that then FPV definitely becomes illegal without a 107.

    The other clever thing the FAA did was to turn the "registration" of drone pilots and RC fliers into a civil contract in which you have agreed to waiver many of the protections given by Congress and the CBO rules.

    For example:

    Under the CBO directives and previous FAA regs, you *can* fly above 400ft AGL but if you've registered then you have entered into a civil contract not to exceed 400ft. If the FAA wants to then they can prosecute you for breach of contract whenever you fly over 400ft. This has nothing to do with regulations -- its controlled by the civil contract you agreed to when you registered.

    Those who registered should read carefully what they have agreed to and realise that although the rules of the CBO protect them from criminal prosecution or fines related to regulations that apply to non-CBO operation -- they do NOT protect them from a civil prosecution for breach of contract under the terms of that registration.

    It is not at all uncommon for bureaucracies to be *very* cunning when they want their way and clearly, this time, the FAA has used the power of a civil contract when they can't use regulation.

    I can't believe how many people didn't realize that.

  8. #38
    Instructor Pilot Channel 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steezus View Post
    I'll take the AMA's advice before I take the advice from some random old guy on the internet. FPV has always been a giant great area before just like it is now. If you were deemed unsafe now, it is no different than before.
    Do what you wish, but remember life is not like a bowl of cherries, what you do and say today "may" come back and burn your arse tomorrow.



    Wayne
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjet View Post
    The FAA knew that they were restricted (by Act of Congress) from passing new rules to regulate model aircraft so they went through the back door and simply revised the definition of what a model aircraft is.
    Totally incorrect, what the FAA did is finally get off their ass and define the difference between hobby and commercial operations, in the process they conceded to 336 allowing "hobby" to be exempted from the 107 requirements.

    That alone should be something everyone in the hobby should be backing the AMA with membership applications and money.

    Wayne
    Last edited by Channel 1; 9th September 2016 at 07:06 AM.
    Everybody loves a bunny.

  10. #40
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    AMA members may continue flying FPV

    For those flying first-person view (FPV), we understand that a recent Forbes article has made the issue of regulatory compliance even more confusing. We are advising AMA members that flying FPV with a spotter under the Special Rule for Model Aircraft remains acceptable as long as you continue to fly according to the AMA Safety Code and AMA's safety guidelines for FPV operations in Document 550.
    Last edited by CongoSavanne; 8th September 2016 at 10:02 PM.
    “Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness.”
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    Last edited by doobie; 15th August 2016 at 10:26 PM. Reason: spelt titties wrong

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