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Thread: FAA registration - what you need to know (11/23/2015)

  1. #241
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    Airborne Idiot!

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by lookoutbelow View Post
    This may have been said already but I don't plan on registering and I'm sure they is a rather large number of individuals who will not be. It's a complete joke if you ask me it's not about the money of course that's minuscule. There's absolutely no way to enforce it so good luck.

    Also I'm sure it didn't go down like this but I can imagine a bunch of knuckleheads in a room saying "ok are we done with the toy airplane thing can we move on to this isis thing again?"

    i mean cmon people
    The federal government's only function is to find different ways to collect revenue. If it involves creating a false narrative about the dangers of drones, what does it matter, as long as they get their $5.

    And note: Terrorists, criminals and other people with nefarious intent are not going to register. Does this even need to be said aloud?

    As is the case with everything the fed gov of the USA does, it's all about the money and maybe a little bit of control just for the icing.

    Remember their plan to fix global warming? They were going to sell carbon credits. Yup that will fix everything lol. What a joke we've become. From the 3rd world banana republic dicatator president, right on down to the FAA making up powers over model aircraft. The law doesn't matter, unless you are a tax paying citizen. In that case, toe the line or they will come and get your ass. Count on that. They care about illegal immigrant children, so they won't arrest their criminal parents, but just see how much slack you get if you don't pay your taxes. Their not going to worry about your children as they perp walk your ass to prison.

  3. #243
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    The US Government has somehow been able to bury its nose once again and managed to impose federal regulations and over reaching its authority to the average US citizen on a freaking hobby that I love and find peace while flying. This is totally ludicrous! We can’t even have fun over the weekends with our toys without the US Government getting into every facet of our lives.
    NH2LB

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothvirus View Post
    slightly off topic but any google search on this subject brings up about 900,000 results that I could spend all night reading.

    A friend of mine and I are having a friendly debate on Facebook, he's slightly miffed I posted an article comparing the FAA's drone registration to the fact that you don't have to register firearms*. He is insisting that there is a Federal requirement to register firearms at the point of purchase. I'm not an expert on gun ownership by any stretch, but can a gun owner here clear this up? I am 99.99% certain there's no federal gun legislation that even approaches what's being proposed for drones, and I'm under the impression you don't have to register them at all, at least at the Federal level.

    * - I know that a lot of states DO require registration (probably including Maryland where he lives), here in Virginia you would only have to register full auto weapons.

    edit: from what I can skim through, the only firearms that require registration are full auto, and short barrel shotguns and rifles. That's all. He's telling me that you have to register an AR-15 with the Feds which I think is false. You DO have to pass a background check, but that's not the same as registration.

    In Washington state I have never had to register any firearms I have acquired... purchased or otherwise... when buying from a licensed dealer you do have to go through a NICS check but *supposedly* they do not retain the actual data

    Also, I can legally build firearms all day long and not put serial numbers on them... or any other identifying marks.

  5. #245
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    While I agree with most that it's just the "tip of the iceberg", "boiling the frog", "the thin edge of the wedge", I kinda have to agree that something needs to be put in place, and I don't think the timing of this is any mistake. It's not about us - the guys who spend a ton of time in forums sharing ideas and actively participating in a community... It's estimated (by who, I don't know - accurately estimated? I don't know) that 800,000 to 1,000,000 "drones" will be sold in the 4th quarter of this year - which basically means a bunch of people, most of whom have probably never flown an rc vehicle, will be delighted to be getting a "fly out of the box" quad for Christmas or Chanukah or Kwanza or Festivus or whatever. Let's just say 500,000 (or pick a number) of them are "kids" or younger adults who have never flown before, and now have a quad with a camera. With a tremendous amount of inexperienced pilots suddenly taking to the skies all at once, there can only logically be a sharp increase in accidents / reckless incidents. It's not a far fetched idea that a 14 year old who's quad goes wildly out of control and into some people wouldn't just chuck his tx in the nearest dumpster and do his best to forget what just happened... or the uncountable other scenarios that new "pilots" are going to find themselves in after charging up and confidently taking their new toy out for the first or second or 10th time, attempting to get some cool footage or impress others. It's a far cry from those of us who began by spending a ton of time and money researching and learning and building and responsibly taking our builds out, responsibly crashing them and rebuilding them etc. to become good pilots. There's going to be a ton of new stuff out there being flown by a ton of inexperienced people, most of whom have no financial or emotional attachment to, or investment in the device, unlike the respect earned and developed in grinding out what it takes to learn enough to build your own. There's got to be some way of holding people accountable for their poor decisions, and without this, once the news reports start flowing come the new year about a "drone" doing this or a "drone" doing that, with no chance of accountability, I'm going to (and you're going to) be looked at like "there's one of those irresponsible drone people flying one of those dangerous things" when you're seen in a field or a park, responsibly going about your business. It may happen regardless with the type of volume that they are forecasting, but maybe it'll force a few people to think twice about going for that cool shot on their first flight and maybe it'll prevent a few bad accidents or bad ideas from coming to fruition. At least that's the silver lining I'm attempting to find in it...


    In response to the gun thing above, I'n not required to register my guns (and I live in one of the strictest states concerning gun laws), but there is always a record that you purchased a gun somewhere, unless you purchased through channels that didn't require it or got it by other means (or years ago, before all this political craziness around guns). To purchase in my state I need a purchasers ID after all kinds of investigation, and another permit if I want to purchase a handgun. But, my guns were bought in another state while I was in the military, so ID was all that was needed. There is a record that I purchased them though. I can (and have) legally brought them into my home state and am not required to register them. Plan on any law currently on the books to change in the near future, though.

    Scott

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
    While I agree with most that it's just the "tip of the iceberg", "boiling the frog", "the thin edge of the wedge", I kinda have to agree that something needs to be put in place
    I fully agree... the FAA has to do something, even if only because the Senate directed them to and they're already three months late in delivering.

    However, the real kicker is this:

    Airspace regulators around the world have acknowledged that the traditional RC model flying hobbyist poses very little threat to the national airspace. The RC flying community has built an enviable track-record for safety and responsibility over many decades.

    These same airspace regulators acknowledge that the real problem are the capabilities of these new "consumer-grade" craft that are being bought by people who are not the traditional RC fliers -- but people who use them as an aerial appliance with scant regard for the rules (or awareness that there are any rules). These are the "droners".

    So I would have absolutely no problem with the FAA coming down very hard and regulating the "droners" for their sins -- since the many incidents reported almost invariably involve "droners" and their craft. Before the DJI Phantom and other craft were launched onto the market, there simply weren't any reports of incidents between RC models and full sized aircraft so the hobbyists aren't the problem.

    The thing that deeply concerns me (and should concern all genuine hobbyists) is the utter lack of distinction between those who are clearly the problem and those who have proven themselves over many decades to be no threat to the national airspace.

    To lump all those safe, responsible RC fliers into the same basket as the idiot droners and regulate them as one group is a huge insult to those of us who take the matter of safety seriously and who fly responsibly.

    It is understandable therefore that so many RC fliers are outraged that they're effectively being accused of the crimes of the droners and not being given a single ounce of credit for their impeccable record and attitude.

    This is the real problem with the FAA's approach to regulation.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjet View Post
    So how does paying with a pre-paid card authenticate *anything*? These can be bought with cash so prove nothing other than the fact that you've paid some money.
    Simple because unlike cash, which is king in the drug dealing business, plastic provides traceability, with a card I cannot anonymously register as xjet and then go out and do something criminal and have it trace back to you.

    Wayne
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  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey101 View Post
    Every firearm made has a serial number on it. When you buy said firearm, you do go into a data base of sorts. This is also HIGHLY depending in what state you live in. DROS, or Dealer Record of Sales, is a data base that has all legal firearm sales, here in lovely california that is. Again, this is very dependent on your state.Did I clear that up at all
    Regardless of the state of purchase, at the Federal level and through an FFL a firearm purchaser must fill out and sign a BATF 4473 and provide a government issued id before the firearm can be transferred from the FLL to the purchaser.

    The 4473's are retained by the FFL and should a purchased firearm end up being involved in a crime a forward trace of the serial number will lead BATF to the FLL, who is required to allow BATF to inspect the 4473 which then leads law enforcement to the purchaser.

    The system is considered an acceptable compromise which allows traceability of firearms used in crimes, while maintaining the prohibition of the formation of a national firearm database by the U.S. government.

    BTW by forming a Firearm Trust, an individual can eliminate most of the hoops required to purchase Title II devices.

    Wayne
    Everybody loves a bunny.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by xjet View Post
    So I would have absolutely no problem with the FAA coming down very hard and regulating the "droners" for their sins -- since the many incidents reported almost invariably involve "droners" and their craft. Before the DJI Phantom and other craft were launched onto the market, there simply weren't any reports of incidents between RC models and full sized aircraft so the hobbyists aren't the problem.
    A quick scan of YouTube videos will provide a generous amount evidence that the above statement is really an untrue as the majority of the violations posted on YouTube are by those who fly high and far, which the majority of the out of the box RTF's are incapable of doing.

    And such a scan of such videos will also reveal the screen manes of a number of well known operators who wouldn't be caught dead flying a DJI.

    But that is the typical blame game presented by those who actually are at the root of the problem.

    Wayne
    Everybody loves a bunny.

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Channel 1 View Post
    A quick scan of YouTube videos will provide a generous amount evidence that the above statement is really an untrue as the majority of the violations posted on YouTube are by those who fly high and far, which the majority of the out of the box RTF's are incapable of doing.

    And such a scan of such videos will also reveal the screen manes of a number of well known operators who wouldn't be caught dead flying a DJI.

    But that is the typical blame game presented by those who actually are at the root of the problem.

    Wayne
    I wouldn't say the root of "THE problem", as I don't think the registration is meant to address or be a response to a current problem that is readily seen. Watching those videos to their completion will also show 99% of the "problem" flights (flights that break faa rules, although may not pose an immediate danger to people or property) end in the pilot and aircraft meeting once again having had no incidents. The issues stated on the faa website (specifically the white house crash - phantom, the air fire crews being grounded - phantoms and other out of the box crafts it is believed) are obviously their concern, but it's really beside the point. My point is that, it's not the fliers that go out of los or above 400ft that are going to be "the problem" (in my opinion), but rather the naive, inexperienced, and those that have no investment - x 2 million (estimates for the next year). The quads that crash into a house or through someones window, catching the lipo on fire in the process, the out of control quads that will inevitably be crashed into crowds, dropped into crowded areas unintentionally and otherwise be dropping out of the sky and being recovered by a third party. If you catch the pilot with the craft, sure, a registration would help in streamlining the identification process and verifying it's theirs, but in reality, you've already got the suspect of whatever offense. It's for the ones where you don't catch the pilot with the craft, but you do find the craft, whether found in the street or found by someone's face or found slicing into a crowd or into a baby carriage or house or highway, and on and on. Agreed that the "faa rule beakers" are making YouTube videos, and are generally an experienced bunch, of which I am a member, but I don't think the registration is aimed at that "threat". If you add another million of such craft to the sky and we're all flying long range, eventually there will be an issue, yes, but the devices they are aiming at (the 800,000 - 1,000,000 they mention that they are concerned about at the moment), the vast majority won't even be capable of the offenses by popular pilots seen my the masses. If these new pilots do eventually become those types of pilots, it will be after a lot of time and work and research - meaning hopefully they are better pilots, more aware and capable of better decision making. Unless, of course, they discover the companies like some of the better known ones who will build you an out of the box 100mph+ aircraft capable of reaching out 20mi, right out of the box and with no prior verification that you can safely operate said aircraft except for Benjamin Franklin and a few of his buddie$ vouching for you... But hey, it's a free market, and some people care more about money than they do survival of the hobby...
    Last edited by Hoss; 15th December 2015 at 09:46 AM.

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