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Thread: Hello from Ottawa Canada

  1. #1
    Navigator Canadian Flyer's Avatar
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    Talking Hello from Ottawa Canada

    Hello or if you prefer Gi'day Lads/ladies.

    I discovered this place when I met up with a member, ibcrazy and his fantastic antenna work.

    As mentioned, I live in Ottawa or to be more exact in a Burb, Barrhaven. I'd like to know if there are any others in my area, so perhaps we could get together once or occasionally to fly and exchange techniques.
    I live under a flight path final approach to the airport, so this poses a small problem, as you would expect. They come in quite low by the time they are passing. The airport my guess is 10-12km/6-7 miles perhaps, as the crow flies. Worse for people living on the east side in sight of the runway at 3km/2miles

    I'm retired (at a young age, but I'm older now) Rather early to retire but running out of time, so I live off my wife and the taxpayers tab now.
    I was an EE in aerospace and had my own half-arsed Eng. company for the last 15yrs of my career. I really enjoyed the varied work over the years. I've no regrets as it was very rewarding and I had a blast. I find not many will say that about whatever career they ended up in, so I was fortunate.

    I recently discovered this hobby that I'm really enjoying and have met a lot of fun, very helpful and just generally great people online, doing FPV/UAV . I unfortunately haven't yet met up with anyone in person for this hobby. I hope that changes one day. For now I read, learn and fly alone.

    I am a member in good standing with MAAC (Equiv. to AMA) and so I follow their rules and guidelines as and where they apply to me for safe operation.
    I don't belong to any flying club and I'm not really interested anymore after a very unpleasant experience with the OREO club (as in cookies).
    There is so much that is just down right wrong and odd with that OREO club. New people don't seem to stay long, as I found out and from emails received seemed to confirm it. No wonder Oreo stays very small, with the same core clique. I guess I'm doing them a favour by warning people not to bother, because it appears they like it the way it is. So unfortunately for me at least, I'll just skip the club option in order to meet new people and seek out other FPV/UAV and general hobby pilots other ways.

    I'm relatively new to FPV and UAV and flying in general. So I crash more than I fly. I have other unrelated aircraft as well.
    I have a Quad that I'm now modifying or may build a second instead. I'm now building a plane platform specifically for FPV/UAV.
    I have most of the gear I need for FPV and UAV, so I'm down to odds and ends while I work on the air-frames and mounting all the stuff.

    My main FPV hardware:
    A gopro with a few various smaller cameras from HK.
    A couple of pan/tilts
    A 5.8ghz Tx/Rx for video
    Set of Bluebeam (when they come in)
    One 5.8ghz FatShark goggles with tracking built in.
    Cheap 8x10in. LCD screen out of a DvD player
    Spektrum 2.4ghz Tx/Rx

    Platforms:
    Quad: frame is made (cnc) by Tom at Hoverthings.com The larger 550 8x motor frame. (I Highly recommended his frames for strength) Can also fly well with just 4x motors if you give up some lift, but especially for the redundancy if one fails. Nice frame for the price. Rookie flyers perhaps need to remove landing legs or buy glue and spares until you learn not to hit hard with angular momentum. The other option is put on training gear of foam or something. The arms and body plates are very tough though, over anything I've even seen out there for the weight ratio.

    Controller: The Quadrino. Uses the MultiWii firmware. An open source hardware and software project board that is an active community. I bought the cont. from witespyquad.gostorego.com/flight-controllers/quadrino-muiltwii-flight-controller.html
    I have the previous advanced version with no significant difference from this new zoom just out. They just cleaned it up a bit it seems so that's good but not worth it for me to upgrade this time. Flies ok. Paul's RTF use the hoverthings frames but mostly the smaller /450 fframes.
    Paul's RTF is best for new people with no experience. Great support for beginners and well worth the price. I use most of his parts on my quad because I needed a place to start using existing proven parts. I didn't buy an RTF from him. I wanted to build it myself.
    The controller will change or I'm likely I'll just build a second quad with a completely different controller, but not the DJI Naza that witespy will be re-selling. See the aircraft platform below for the new and more sophisticated UAV controller I've decided on and pre-ordered.
    ========

    Plane:
    High-wing style. It's a hobbyking.com bare bones platform. Nothing but the aircraft body for $65. No servos motor etc. Large aircraft with higher lift capacity and a good amount of room for your equipment. Very rugged and easily fixed as it is using hand cut EPP foam. Also a nice slow flyer for FPV work. It's not a perfect aircraft, but there are a lot of youtube vids for small mods to make it into what you need and make it solid.
    hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__14465__EPP_FPV_1_8M_X_Large_EPP_Carbon_Fiber_R_C _Plane.html
    You can see the possibilities with this bird. especially Great for a beginner.

    Controller: ArduPilot with the plane and Quad software. I'm sure a lot of people are familiar with the DIYDrones UAV's. Well they have just come out with highly redesigned Hardware for almost half the price as the old one with more features and upgraded core parts. The APM 2.0. I've pre-ordered mine and expect it in a couple more weeks.
    Very strong community around the planes, multi's and even land and water vehicles.
    I can't say more because you must just go there and begin to read.
    ===

    So that is the path I plan to take for now. FPV with UAV added in. I'll soon need the UAV aspects for specific abilities and for reasons I will leave out here. I'll be spending a lot of my time reading the forum threads here, in order to get up to speed on what people are doing and getting to virtually know some of you perhaps. Maybe I'll even find someone local that wants to go flying.

    I've gone way over my introduction speech space. So I'll shut up now. If anyone wants me, just knock.

    -Terry
    Last edited by Canadian Flyer; 16th January 2012 at 07:23 PM. Reason: addition

  2. #2
    WormBurnin' aaron_gx's Avatar
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    welcome! im from Lethbridge, Alberta. Quite a few canadians on here, most from ontario and quebec.
    Get me a Crocodile sandwich. And make it snappy.

  3. #3
    I Like Waffles... SENTRY's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Lab!
    "I Like Waffles" : FPVLab on Facebook and FPVLab on Twitter

  4. #4
    Navigator Canadian Flyer's Avatar
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    Hi aaron_gx. Glad to meet you. Wish I had your open areas I noticed only Alberta got capitalized. You independent minded western'ers LOL J/K
    And to Sentry. Thanks. I promise to be good.... but I have memory issues.

  5. #5
    WormBurnin' aaron_gx's Avatar
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    Definitely right about the open areas. Never at a loss for a place to fly.
    Get me a Crocodile sandwich. And make it snappy.

  6. #6
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    Newfoundland here.

    Does anyone have any ideas for Canadian Insurers for Commercial AP work? I've been using a broker lately but no backers will give the insurance as they deem the work too risky.

  7. #7
    Navigator Canadian Flyer's Avatar
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    Hi Grips. First up is that below are my opinions only. They are based on recent research that I have undertaken and is still ongoing.

    You are likely right, no one will insure you. To many lawyers and Government Departments are in on it now and it will get worse before better. Even insured amateur groups have seen their insurance coverage change to cover very little now, yet the rates go up. Even though their has never been a payable accident in Canadian History. What a joke. perceived risk based on some computer model that does not even include any payout in 50 years.

    You have opened a whole can of worms with that question. There is only one or two companies that might even cover offbeat insurance needs in Canada that I'm even aware of. I don't think they will do it, or it will be so prohibitively expensive that as an individual you can't afford the premiums. If you try you need to try and get in with some existing group. What they do is not important, it is about matching the same types of risks you will have that is key.

    AXA Assurances Inc. and Loyds are the only two I even know that have in the past done odd stuff. AXA covers the Canadian modellers association, MAAC. I know MAAC styled one won't work for you. It is to strictly defined in their policy to be sanctioned and insured. They specifically in their docs exclude what you do. It is to keep their rates low. So to get AXA I think they will restrict you to much.

    Even if a company will give insurance to an individual, I have no idea of the premiums but your deductible will likely be $1,000. That number is based on MAAC deductible. $500 for the person and another $500 for the club and MAAC share you pay anyway. As you have no club you can assume the $1,000 Then on top it only covers others. None of your stuff and no personal injury either.

    Then it begins to get far more complex once you are outside of a club or flying in a farmer's field let alone do it professionally. This means it get's extremely more complex for you to even fly, let alone get insured. One step I highly recommend before you even try. You should get incorporated. Very expensive to get a Corp, but maybe the only way to get insurance. but then, even if you get insured, you run into other problems with the government regulations.

    It is legally a very grey or down right illegal to fly models and AP/FPV/UAV around people. We aren't supposed to fly in parks if there are people anywhere near. Then it get's more complex because right now all this is under revue as I speak. Everything is under review. From even flying, right up to even photography and privacy issues.

    First up, because of recent technology leaps forward our hobby/business is now on the radar.
    Even though our craft are under 35kg (defines model class weight limits). It isn't, except for very limited places, even legal to fly, these things, let alone go out to do the kind of professional work in Canada. Here is a link on what is going on. It's changing constantly and the laws are going to be really problematic and strict. One big consideration is that Canada is watching exactly the same process in the US with the FAA. They are doing a major revue right now as well.
    http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviatio...group-2266.htm

    This is a very tricky issue. I'll just give an example or two.
    We have Transport Canada (TC) and the Radio has Industry Canada involved (So call both together TIC). Anything that flys no matter if it's a model of not comes under the TC. Anything that Transmits comes under the Industry Canada.
    First. There is no transmitter that we can legally use. The wattage needed for FPV is above the non-licence levels of 75mW. Typically we need 300-1000mW for short range omni-directional antennas. Then even if we get a waver at specific sanctioned sites we need a Ham licence. Stupid as it seems. Start Edit: ((Unlike the US the CRTC makes us know Morse code) Morse No longer a requirement), plus all the other HAM knowledge to get that licence. Although the basic licence is no overly difficult if you have a basic electronics knowledge and read up on basic set of rules and regulations. End Edit

    As of now you need a spotter to fly FPV/UAV and you must be within line of site (unaided sight). Even for AP it can't get out of direct sight. So no behind building or even a chimney. Then you must have a marked perimeter and clear people to a safe distance even for a model. These aren't MAAC rules but rather Gov rules that MAAC also adopted for their flying fields and so did their insurance company. Many people think it is just MAAC that made the rule.

    But speaking of MAAC. Their voting membership is hard on about eliminating flying by just anyone. Basically they want to be the controlling force backed by Gov regs. Right now you can be a member of MAAC as an individual that's not in a club (But no professionals can be in MAAC anyway) of any kind and still be insured. Soon though the regulations may force everyone to join MAAC. However that will eliminate many types of flying and aircraft types. This especially applies to the controllers that will be allowed. It will include how you fly and where.

    Now that Gov. has got us on the radar it can only get worse.
    All this could be a very dark time for our hobby in the near future. We all could be outlaws more than in the minor or questionably (grey) ways we are now.

    Edit additions: First Full Revised recommendations have been posted at MAAC for you Canadians. Follow this link if you want to see how they view things and as result of consultations with the Gov.
    Basic guidelines and safety:
    http://www.maac.ca/view_news.php?itm=491
    Radio spectrum info including fo FPV:
    http://www.maac.ca/docs/2010/revised...v_included.pdf
    Last edited by Canadian Flyer; 8th October 2012 at 02:07 AM. Reason: updated information and one correction

  8. #8
    Take off... Eh Technoweenie's Avatar
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    CRTC only regulates broadcasting and telecommunications undertakings from a business standpoint (content, rules, etc). Industry Canada regulates the technical side concerning frequencies, power levels, modulation types etc.

    The Transport Canada - UAV Working Group document section 14.0 also defines;

    "model aircraft" - means an aircraft, the total weight of which does not exceed 35 Kg (77.2 pounds), that is mechanically driven or launched into flight for recreational purposes and that is not designed to carry persons or other living creatures.
    They are still struggling to classify model aircraft that are non LOS.
    Regards,
    Bryan VE3OYN
    "Technoweenie"
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    If it is broke, deny everything.

  9. #9
    Navigator Canadian Flyer's Avatar
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    Ya sorry Technoweenie and thanks.
    In fact coincidentally I just came back specifically to correct it to Industry Canada. or 'TIC' Transport and Industry Canada. It suddenly came to me when I was eating dinner that I said crtc.
    Last edited by Canadian Flyer; 18th January 2012 at 09:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Take off... Eh Technoweenie's Avatar
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    No prob. I think it's inevitable that our government will just blindly follow the FAA in the US. May be a few years behind. Nice thing about Canada... Lots o wide open spaces. Kinda jealous of Aron in Alberta. You could fly for days and not cross someones path.
    Regards,
    Bryan VE3OYN
    "Technoweenie"
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
    If it is broke, deny everything.

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