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Thread: Trappy appeal brief

  1. #11
    Navigator spiked3's Avatar
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    And the case has never been to a US court. Once appeals are exhausted at the FAA level, then it enters US courts for the first time.
    Appeals are how the one with most money is always able to win, it has nothing to do with justice. It is a benefit to the rich and government built into the American system. And unfortunately for trappy, one that a pro bono lawyer will never come out of on top, right or wrong.
    Bottom line is this case will easily drag on way past its relevance, IF the defendant is willing to spend the money (and even free time IS money).

  2. #12
    Instructor Pilot Channel 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiked3 View Post
    And the case has never been to a US court. Once appeals are exhausted at the FAA level, then it enters US courts for the first time.
    You sure about that, the FAA is appealing to the NTSB, do they as regulatory agency have the ability to appeal above their master?

    Wayne
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  3. #13
    Navigator spiked3's Avatar
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    Good question, I can not imagine why they would not though. I'm betting by the time it gets to the top of the faa, the government will rule for the government. Has that ever not been the case, ever, in history?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spiked3 View Post
    And the case has never been to a US court. Once appeals are exhausted at the FAA level, then it enters US courts for the first time.
    Appeals are how the one with most money is always able to win, it has nothing to do with justice. It is a benefit to the rich and government built into the American system. And unfortunately for trappy, one that a pro bono lawyer will never come out of on top, right or wrong.
    Bottom line is this case will easily drag on way past its relevance, IF the defendant is willing to spend the money (and even free time IS money).
    A lot of private interest (read: money) in this decision I wouldn't be surprised if Trappy's team is getting some under the table help from a bigger power.

  5. #15
    Navigator DevinD's Avatar
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    Bro, I just don't get this fatalist attitude. In fact, it's a shitty attitude.

    Let's be real. In the 1920s there was a huge backlash against powered flight because people owned their land ad infinitum. That had to change to allow for the propagation of the aerospace industry we know it today. This was done by hardworking men that communicated their vision with enthusiasm.

    Trappy's case is going to be fine. UAS is going to proliferate as more and more people get on board with it.

  6. #16
    Navigator spiked3's Avatar
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    I'm truly sorry you are unable to comprehend the difference between a different opinion and a shitty attitude. One might categorize your opinion as an ignorant attitude with the same logic. Not all people wear rose colored glasses all the time. People can have different opinions without one of them being shitty, it is a low blow personal insult.

    I imagine the horse people were also as unaccepting as the new pollution producing cars took over the roads. The difference between airplanes, cars and Trappies case? They were not a hobby activity. No one is suggesting that UAS will not do fine, only that Trappy will lose his current case where he is being fined by the FAA. Don't try to dramatize it into some kind of civil rights movement. BVLOS FPV is only important to a handful of people.

  7. #17
    Instructor Pilot Channel 1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiked3 View Post
    No one is suggesting that UAS will not do fine, only that Trappy will lose his current case where he is being fined by the FAA.
    I may be wrong but I don't think that is going to happen, there are too many players lining up behind and supporting Pirker for this to be a slam dunk for the FAA and I think the FAA knows that which is why they have hired a consulting firm to draft some actual regulations supposedly later this year.

    Wayne
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  8. #18
    Navigator spiked3's Avatar
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    That definitely could happen, and I welcome reasonable disagreement without name calling. And make no mistake, I think Trappy's arguments, or more accurately Shulman's arguments are correct. I just do not think the government agency will quit until it wins. They have already proven how immature they will be about it. I have no horse in the race so I do not really care either way.

    But going forward, I look back; Myself and a lot of people I know said "trappy's antics will get FPV banned", and I think, again right or wrong, that was a true statement. What started with Trappy will change commercial RC and long range FPV from a fringe under the radar hobby activity to a license only activity.

  9. #19
    Crashing Vitamin J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiked3 View Post
    And the case has never been to a US court. Once appeals are exhausted at the FAA level, then it enters US courts for the first time.
    Appeals are how the one with most money is always able to win, it has nothing to do with justice. It is a benefit to the rich and government built into the American system. And unfortunately for trappy, one that a pro bono lawyer will never come out of on top, right or wrong.
    Bottom line is this case will easily drag on way past its relevance, IF the defendant is willing to spend the money (and even free time IS money).
    This is absolutely not true at all. I've seen firsthand people win on appeal against government agencies and businesses without spending oodles of dollars.

    Secondly, the NTSB courts are indeed U.S. courts, just with different jurisdictions and different rules, like civil or criminal or district or federal courts.

    On top of that, do you really think Trappy and Team-Blacksheep are suffering for this court case, or is it bringing them national attention and free advertising in a brand-new market that everyone and their brother wants to get in on?

    Quote Originally Posted by spiked3 View Post
    Good question, I can not imagine why they would not though. I'm betting by the time it gets to the top of the faa, the government will rule for the government. Has that ever not been the case, ever, in history?
    Who is the "government?" Are you sure you're not trying to combine millions of individuals with different opinions and values into a single entity to make a point on the internet?

    And yes, it has been the case all throughout US history. Please don't be so goddamn ignorant. Some of the most important court cases in our history came about when the Supreme Court ruled against state governments and federal agencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by spiked3 View Post
    I'm truly sorry you are unable to comprehend the difference between a different opinion and a shitty attitude. One might categorize your opinion as an ignorant attitude with the same logic. Not all people wear rose colored glasses all the time. People can have different opinions without one of them being shitty, it is a low blow personal insult.

    I imagine the horse people were also as unaccepting as the new pollution producing cars took over the roads. The difference between airplanes, cars and Trappies case? They were not a hobby activity. No one is suggesting that UAS will not do fine, only that Trappy will lose his current case where he is being fined by the FAA. Don't try to dramatize it into some kind of civil rights movement. BVLOS FPV is only important to a handful of people.
    How about you settle down? After this post maybe you can see that you, too, harbor many shitty opinions. Hopefully I've been able to correct them.

    Just so I can end this with a bang I will flip your last analogy; guess what came to the US first? Automobiles for commercial use, or for racing?

  10. #20
    FPV FTW!
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