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Thread: QAV540G with Integrated Brushless Camera Gimbal

  1. #21
    Navigator BacklashRC's Avatar
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    I have never messed with a brushless gimbal controller however, the ability to interface between the gimbal control board and the flight controller should be paramount. Gimbal control is most effective when the FC is telling the gimbal driver what is about to happen rather than a stand alone gimbal controller reacting to what has already happened. (The former acts as true compensation for pitch and roll in the platform. The later only acts as a damper and this can be seen in related videos.)

    BTW, I am excited about this frame release!
    Last edited by BacklashRC; 8th April 2013 at 10:56 AM.

  2. #22
    Do NOT disturb the pilot saucisse's Avatar
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    Well the beauty of these brushless gimball controllers is that you can plug in your fc to it so it will share "info" to it. Don't forget that all sensors found in a flight controller are also found in the IMU of the blc board so they react at the same time.

    Been playing with mine for couple of days now and it's as good as it gets, stunning results!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BacklashRC View Post
    I have never messed with a brushless gimbal controller however, the ability to interface between the gimbal control board and the flight controller should be paramount. Gimbal control is most effective when the FC is telling the gimbal driver what is about to happen rather than a stand alone gimbal controller reacting to what has already happened. (The former acts as true compensation for pitch and roll in the platform. The later only acts as a damper and this can be seen in related videos.)

    BTW, I am excited about this frame release!
    Last edited by saucisse; 8th April 2013 at 11:37 AM.
    Long range FPV is so 2009

  3. #23
    Navigator Japanx's Avatar
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    Always loved the QAV500, in love of QAV400, but i'm worried about the QAV540. That balance is more than an issue to me.
    In other hand i'd push you to keep working on it until you find the way to properly balance it.

    Just comparing protorypes, but i've pre-ordered a Spidex with their new brushless gimball included and with the proper balance out of the box, it stays between 1,5/1,7kg with all the electronics (naza+gps+gc+drive+gp3 and batts)

    No offence please. I just want GetFpv to make it perfect, as usual.
    Japanx.

  4. #24
    Navigator BacklashRC's Avatar
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    QAV540G with Integrated Brushless Camera Gimbal

    Quote Originally Posted by saucisse View Post
    Well the beauty of these brushless gimball controllers is that you can plug in your fc to it so it will share "info" to it. Don't forget that all sensors found in a flight controller are also found in the IMU of the blc board so they react at the same time.

    Been playing with mine for couple of days now and it's as good as it gets, stunning results!!
    I partially agree with you. The IMU in both units detect movement due to external forces, ie wind, and react. Control movement data, on the other hand, gives the controller the opportunity to make changes as rotation occurs rather than waiting for the IMU to report that it has detected rotation.

  5. #25
    Banana Drone Flying Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BacklashRC View Post
    I partially agree with you. The IMU in both units detect movement due to external forces, ie wind, and react. Control movement data, on the other hand, gives the controller the opportunity to make changes as rotation occurs rather than waiting for the IMU to report that it has detected rotation.
    Nope, the gyro and ACC on both your FCC and the BGC will see the same thing, at the same time, and send out their signals at the same speed. With this new brushless gimbal controller there's zero reason to involve your FC.
    "You can't take the sky from me"

  6. #26
    Sr. Keyboard Cowbow chatch's Avatar
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    The gimbal controller looptime is much faster than any flight controller. the ones you hear squealing are running at 8khz, and the actual control loop is between 1-2khz. The silent ones are up past 32khz and running modern processors(no atmel lol) with a FPU. There is little if any benefit of having communication between the flight controller, at the center of the frame, and the brushless controller which is connected to an IMU either on the camera or near it. It would add significant overhead for little results.

    are you guys developers or just doing thought experiments? The only time I would connect something across a frame is to actively cancel vibrations. If you place a sensor at one end of the arm and a voice coil at the other end, you can phase shift the input 180 degrees at the correct time(the energy takes time to travel like beach waves). end result is they are canceled out when it hits the voice coil.
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Monkey View Post
    Nope, the gyro and ACC on both your FCC and the BGC will see the same thing, at the same time, and send out their signals at the same speed. With this new brushless gimbal controller there's zero reason to involve your FC.
    this

    not to mention the "better" boards will have specific DMP settings activated for a purposeful application instead of splitting inputs that are supposed to both serve flight control and gimbal stabilization.
    Last edited by chatch; 8th April 2013 at 07:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmaplesong View Post
    When you're outraged at chatch, please don't quote his bullshit.

  7. #27
    Navigator BacklashRC's Avatar
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    QAV540G with Integrated Brushless Camera Gimbal

    Quote Originally Posted by chatch15117 View Post
    The gimbal controller looptime is much faster than any flight controller. the ones you hear squealing are running at 8khz, and the actual control loop is between 1-2khz. The silent ones are up past 32khz and running modern processors(no atmel lol) with a FPU. There is little if any benefit of having communication between the flight controller, at the center of the frame, and the brushless controller which is connected to an IMU either on the camera or near it. It would add significant overhead for little results.

    are you guys developers or just doing thought experiments? The only time I would connect something across a frame is to actively cancel vibrations. If you place a sensor at one end of the arm and a voice coil at the other end, you can phase shift the input 180 degrees at the correct time(the energy takes time to travel like beach waves). end result is they are canceled out when it hits the voice coil.


    this

    not to mention the "better" boards will have specific DMP settings activated for a purposeful application instead of splitting inputs that are supposed to both serve flight control and gimbal stabilization.
    Sentry, perhaps you could move this conversation to a gimbal control specific thread to keep Tim's QAV thread clean.

    Chatch15117, I am no developer. I am just reiterating what I have read on other gimbal control threads. I have seen a couple of videos that highlight the difference between deliberative and reactionary gimbal control and the results are visible. Of course I have no idea what kind of hardware they were using. Thanks for your input. It is an interesting topic.

  8. #28
    Banana Drone Flying Monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BacklashRC View Post
    I have never messed with a brushless gimbal controller however, the ability to interface between the gimbal control board and the flight controller should be paramount.
    Quote Originally Posted by BacklashRC View Post

    I am just reiterating what I have read on other gimbal control threads.
    You're referring to servo based gimbals. The QAV540G will have a brushless gimbal system... its a totally different beast.
    "You can't take the sky from me"

  9. #29
    Navigator BacklashRC's Avatar
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    QAV540G with Integrated Brushless Camera Gimbal

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Monkey View Post
    You're referring to servo based gimbals. The QAV540G will have a brushless gimbal system... its a totally different beast.
    It does make sense when you consider the operational frequency of the brushless system. I always wanted to try one but was happy enough with my servo driven gimbals that I never paid the extra dollars. I look forward to this frame.

  10. #30
    Lumenier.com timnilson's Avatar
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    See answers inline below...

    Quote Originally Posted by vzachari View Post
    I'm really excited about the gimbal frame and I have some feedback.

    1) Can weight be saved by using a really simple gimbal design

    Yes

    2) It would be nice if an FPV camera (like the 25x25mm mini cams that most people use) would fit next to the gopro on the gimbal (if not, where would we put one?)

    You would not put the flight cam on the gimbal as you'll need to be able to see your airframe's angle of attack during flight.

    3) Do you think it will help if the base of the gimbal had the standard gopro case mount (like on the picture) so we can just put the gopro in its case, snap it on the gimbal and fly without sweating bullets : )

    I never fly our frames with the GP in the GP's case as it ads significant weight in the worst place for a balanced CG. We make a product called LayerLens that protects the most important part of the GP -- its lens -- and it only ads a few grams. The QAV540G will hold a naked GP with LayerLens.

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