PDA

View Full Version : Think about selling Cree XML leds w/heatsink on your site?



philthyy
25th October 2012, 03:12 PM
Hi Hugo. I believe there is a market for those awesome Cree XM-L Leds if you sold them on your site, with heatsink and maybe with a reflector, with an easy to solder to option. Just a suggestion, maybe its not worth the hassle, but I think there are hobbyists who would add those kind of LEDs to their planes if there was a "packaged kit" kind of option available.

Thoughts?

HugeOne
26th October 2012, 05:12 PM
I been asked this a few times. Readymade FPV "headlight" would be an interesting market.
Let me shakes some ideas... I'll be back

Hugo

MatCat
26th October 2012, 05:58 PM
It certainly wouldn't be difficult to do :) I can't wait for mine to get in, I am going to use 3 3 watt WHITE for LED, 2 for flood / landing light, and 2 1 watt for red / green nav lights, my plane is going to be VISIBLE rofl.

MatCat
26th October 2012, 05:59 PM
Hugo, how HOT in temperature do you think the 3w white LED's will get at all power (700ma according to the spec sheets)?

philthyy
26th October 2012, 07:29 PM
I love electronics, and work in the electronics industry. And I'm still bewildered by the array of options and reflector angles and LED output angles and on and on...I really think a FPV LED solution could be very very popular.

MatCat
26th October 2012, 07:34 PM
LED's are a lot like antennas but for light :) An LED with an angle of 25 is going to put out light like a yagi does for antennas, and a 180 degree LED would be more like a rubber duck, putting out light all around it but not as concentrated :). Same thing goes for reflectors, like how a reflector works on a patch or crosshair :).

HugeOne
26th October 2012, 07:42 PM
Hugo, how HOT in temperature do you think the 3w white LED's will get at all power (700ma according to the spec sheets)?

You will have to deal with 2W of waste heat which is not too bad when mounted on a descent size MCPCB (25mm or so) and subject to airflow.

I think 25-30deg lens will make an enjoyable flight experience without needed too much lumens.

Hugo

philthyy
26th October 2012, 07:44 PM
Yeah I understand alot of the terms and how they affect its characteristics...but I don't know what works for our application. It seems like it could require quite a bit of expermintation to get it right, or working well anyway. But if Hugo knows this, seems he could capitalize on his knowledge and offer a solution for FPV aircraft and ground vehicles.

HugeOne
26th October 2012, 08:15 PM
Yes, as many of you know, I experimentes a lot with LED as headlight on a FPV plane.
The main problems encountered are:

-glares. When your light source is too close to your camera or any part of your plane is exposed to the beam of light and seen by your camera, even at an angle greater than your field of view, glares will show. Forget about painting those parts black it don't work.

-Camera sensibility. If your cam is less sensitive to light than the human eye, your LEDs, even if as mighty as my TSII's headlight are not going to help much. Forget about lighting the landscape for your gopro. For a ground vehicle this not a concern as everything is very close.

-Camera dynamic range. Some area seen by your cam will be very bright and other much less. You need a cam that can handle extreme difference in lighting condition. The WDR600 is one that I found excellent. Pixim are good at this, but they are not light sensitive.

-Heat. These LED heat up, even if very efficient 70-80% of power is still in form of heat so don't spare the heatsink or they will unsolder themselves.

-Driver, you cannot just connect resistor is serie with the LED and press ON. At low power it will work, but as soon as the as the LED heat up its forward voltage drop inviting more current, giving more heat and boom. You need circuit to regulate the current.

-Hugo

MatCat
26th October 2012, 08:52 PM
What do you think of this sink for the 3 3W headlights (In series): http://www.ebay.com/itm/wdm-10x-3w-5w-9w-HeatSink-Aluminum-Base-plate-32mm-high-power-LED-white-/180756028094?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a15e61abe

Do you believe they would be 'foam safe' for mounting to the foam itself?

HugeOne
26th October 2012, 10:39 PM
I don't believe no. You should space it from the foam, the foam will insulate the back removing over half the heat-sinking potential.

Hugo

MatCat
26th October 2012, 10:42 PM
Good point, I will come up with some sort of enclosure or something with air scoops hehe.

Hopefully they arrive soon so I can actually do some testing, I have so much stuff to do for this plane I feel like I will be lucky to have it flying in a month!

philthyy
1st November 2012, 04:01 PM
Any progress on this Hugo? VERY interested!

philthyy
1st November 2012, 08:28 PM
Thinking about buying a couple of these and mounting the LED with its reflector on my airplane. Would still have to make my own driver circuit, but I'm pretty confident I can handle that.

http://www.amazon.com/Ultrafire-501b-Cree-Flashlight-Lumens/dp/B0050DX6VM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1351815910&sr=8-2&keywords=cree+xml+t6

e- chaser
1st November 2012, 09:52 PM
Hugo,

I am not so interested in the LED's, but would love to buy some drivers from you. Think you could come up with a kit for that, wouldn't mind soldering it together myself. Would also buy the LED's, but it would probably be hard to beat prices found on the internet. A driver kit should work well for you, couple small components in a bag, should be too much overhead. I'm just too lazy to track down all the componenents.

HugeOne
1st November 2012, 10:11 PM
Any progress on this Hugo? VERY interested!

Off the shelf drivers don't please me that much, so I am looking at designing my own drivers.

The flashlight you linked have its own driver that work on 1S.

E-chaser,
The driver I want to design is exactly that, hook up you own light or have a ready-to-light unit.

Hugo

HugeOne
5th November 2012, 10:58 PM
I started the project features laydown:

RC controlled LED dimming (0-4A)
Button (lo/med/hi/off) if no rc channel is available.
Cycling main power quickly cycle trough (lo/med/hi/off) for flahlight modders.
Optional temperature sensor for LED protection.
Low voltage lipo protection
2-4S supply
1-4 LED load
Stackable architecture to control multiples strings with same channel/button.

-Hugo

volto
5th November 2012, 11:08 PM
I'll be interested if it won't be too expensive!

HugeOne
6th November 2012, 12:18 AM
I'm looking at a 40$ retail price.

Hugo

e- chaser
6th November 2012, 07:04 AM
Interested. How soon?


I'm looking at a 40$ retail price.

Hugo

volto
6th November 2012, 06:20 PM
For just the driver or does that include the LED/s?

HugeOne
6th November 2012, 06:34 PM
Just the driver, for a led and optic add 10$
How long, nothing sure probably a few months.

Hugo

HugeOne
14th January 2013, 10:42 AM
Start to look good!

http://www.truerc.net/images/criverpcb.jpg

-Hugo

philthyy
16th January 2013, 03:25 PM
Coool!!! Was hoping you were still working on this!

RandallJ
16th January 2013, 03:36 PM
I have 10W on the quad and it works really very well.. I attached copper forged heat sinks and then mounted them in the airflow.. I tested stationary with the props running for 20m and they did not overheat..

I just got an off the shelf 10w RGB with IR remote, (http://www.ebay.com/itm/230824602850?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649) soldered the stuff up, heatsinks and away I went.. :) took maybe 10 minutes? 13$

It would take some doing but a nice housing that allowed airflow would be great.. my "ghetto" stuff is not for the masses...

At night? it is hilarious... from several hundred feet away, it is just a ball of glare looking at you.. terrible for navigation but wonderful for bringing people out of their houses.. :)

philthyy
21st January 2013, 09:39 PM
Hugo, do you know where I can buy decent, small easy heatsinks for the Cree XM-L leds? I bought three of the LEDs from DigiKey and three lens for them, but I need heatsinks for them. Does the small "star" PCB design I often see (like your avatar) the LED mounted on function as a heatsink? Or is it simply to make mounting the LED easier?

HugeOne
21st January 2013, 09:53 PM
The "star" PCB is metal and function as a heatsink, but at this size it can't take a lot of heat. The star is meant to be fixed to a heat-sink and transfert the heat from the LED. You can heatsinks at digikey/mouser.

-Hugo

philthyy
21st January 2013, 10:02 PM
I saw some heatsinks at Digikey but they looked relatively huge. As in, designed for using the LED as a overhead fixture in a house or commercial installation, not in a small, flying foam model. Lol. I know the larger the heatsink, the more wattage it can dissapate, but I doubt that I need to drive these at a constant 3 amps to get the output I need/want.

They will first go an a FPV Traxxas Emaxx. Then, if I like them, I'll put them on my FPV Slow Stick. And maybe on a quad (once I build/buy one...)

Anyway, thanks for your help!

philthyy
25th January 2013, 03:35 PM
Hugo, any suggestions on a LED driver that can drive one Cree XM-L at 3A? Or do I need to make my own, using a high power Mosfet?

HugeOne
25th January 2013, 08:59 PM
You may browse this page:
http://www.intl-outdoor.com/components-drivers-c-57_88.html
To find something that will fit.

-Hugo

philthyy
25th January 2013, 09:56 PM
Excellent site! Thanks! Have you ordered from them before? Have good luck with them?

HugeOne
25th January 2013, 10:35 PM
Ordered once, worked fine.
I wanted bare emitters which they don't list and they provided.

-Hugo

HugeOne
20th November 2013, 11:02 AM
Just need the driver and I'll have complete, easy to install headlights for airplanes.

Copper MCPCB with liquid cooling:

http://www.truerc.net/images/copcb.jpg


10deg. spot:

http://www.truerc.net/images/flector.jpg


Mounted on my RVJET:

http://www.truerc.net/images/jetlight.jpg


-Hugo

Flying Monkey
20th November 2013, 05:15 PM
Sweet!

Oy, I got into these leds last December but never finished, got sidetracked, can't believe its been a year!

Derrick
20th November 2013, 05:31 PM
Just need the driver and I'll have complete, easy to install headlights for airplanes.

Copper MCPCB with liquid cooling:

http://www.truerc.net/images/copcb.jpg


10deg. spot:

http://www.truerc.net/images/flector.jpg


Mounted on my RVJET:

http://www.truerc.net/images/jetlight.jpg


-Hugo

Why liquid cooling? Isn't natural convection sufficient? Lighter? Less complicated?

HugeOne
20th November 2013, 05:46 PM
sufficient? No, unless a massive heatsink is used or only drive the led at low current. <1A
One liquid cooled units will do the same job as 3-4 air-cooled.
Actually the design shown on the last pic use both forced air (with forward movement) and liquid cooling.
The cooler at the LED's back can be swapped with an aluminum heatsink, and drive current adjusted accordingly.
The driver will have adjustments for all scenarios.

-Hugo

Derrick
20th November 2013, 06:05 PM
I am a little confused here... what LED are you using?
per Cree's documentation the maximum current for a 1-up XML is 1.5amps @3.3V yielding ~280 lumens, depending on the color temperature you choose.

I have been working with the 3-up XPGs driving them at 1amp, yielding nearly 1000 lumen. The heat generated is handled very easily with a finned heat sink.


Edit: I read that wrong... the XMLs are much more capable.
looks like you can drive them up to 325% giving a little over 900 lumen, 3 amps is a lot though. compared to what is possible with a 3-up XPG star @1 amp.

HugeOne
20th November 2013, 07:17 PM
I use XM-L2, rated at 3A with a yield of over 1100lumens.
However, they can do much more if cooled right. Look at the chart below:

-Hugo35689

HugeOne
26th November 2013, 09:56 PM
Just made a burn-in test @6.6A for over 5hours, lamp stay 25-28C


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F61sGKgv1wA&noredirect=1

-Hugo

Derrick
26th November 2013, 10:08 PM
I use XM-L2, rated at 3A with a yield of over 1100lumens.
However, they can do much more if cooled right. Look at the chart below:

-Hugo35689

I still am having troubles understanding why you are using this LED. The 3-up XPG can emit nearly the same light output at a current draw of 1 amp, meaning much less heat needs to be dissipated. Perhaps the XM-L2's are a little more efficient, but what you gain in efficiency is lost in the circulation system for the liquid cooling.

HugeOne
26th November 2013, 10:58 PM
The 3 XP-g are in serie so 3x 3.3V x 1A = 9.9W
One XM-l2 @3A is also 9.9W
Same heat is dissipated in both setup.
Both are rated at roughly the same light output let's say 1000lumens, the XM-L2 does it at 85C while the XP-G at 25C

Lowering the LED's temp by 50C give an extra 15-20% in light output.
At the 85C the XP-G are probably yielding 850lumens at best, liquid cooling them will bring it back to 1000lumens an increase equivalent to 1.5W
The pump consume 0.6W, but can cool a dozen triple XP-G setup.

-Hugo

wasper67
4th December 2013, 02:05 PM
I made my led mounts out of aluminum and thermal paste so they act as heat sink's with the prop wash. They work very well no problems at all. 36282 36283 36284

HugeOne
4th December 2013, 02:32 PM
Does the gopro have enough light?
What current you drive them at?

I found some nice heatsink for an air-cooled version and also some nice 30x60deg. optic that you be perfect for FPV use.

-Hugo

wasper67
5th December 2013, 01:28 PM
Does the gopro have enough light?
What current you drive them at?

I found some nice heatsink for an air-cooled version and also some nice 30x60deg. optic that you be perfect for FPV use.

-Hugo
I run them from the 4s main bat. And this driver http://www.ebay.com/itm/CREE-10W-XM-L2-XML-T6-U2-LED-Driver-Driving-1-3-Pcs-LEDs-2-4A-5-5-16v-3-mode-/140958964661?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d1cf1bb5 this driver has a high, low and strobe.

HugeOne
6th December 2013, 01:14 AM
Are you running the 4 LED in serie?

-Hugo

wasper67
7th December 2013, 07:48 PM
serie in 2 pairs so far no issues with heat but I don't run them on high very long.

HugeOne
10th January 2014, 01:41 AM
Managed to make a satisfying air-cooled lamp:
It weight 25g and it's about 2.5" high.

http://www.truerc.net/images/lightpodf.JPG

http://www.truerc.net/images/lightpodr.JPG

It can sustain 3A (still have to test the max limit) as long as air flow face the lamp, so no problem in flight.
I will make some in both 30x60deg and 10deg lens flavor.

-Hugo

philthyy
10th January 2014, 07:13 PM
Awesome! I love the idea of a 10 degree lens...seems like that would get you a nice spot of light on the ground to fly a quad by FPV in the darkest of nights (using a PZ0420 or other sensitive camera).

HugeOne
21st January 2014, 12:38 PM
Made a small batch of air-cooled 10deg. spots.

http://www.truerc.net/images/spotengine.jpg

http://www.truerc.net/images/spot1.jpg

http://www.truerc.net/images/spotrow.jpg

Will be released soon!

-Hugo

squishy
21st January 2014, 12:41 PM
ok, I want...

philthyy
22nd January 2014, 11:38 AM
Awesome! Glad to see you're still working on this!

HugeOne
6th February 2014, 01:11 PM
The new RC6Flex driver is here!

-1.3" dia.
-2-5S lipo
-1-5 serie LED
-Metal PCB
-Powerful micro-controller
-Up to 6.6A drive
-Dimmable via RC channel
-Configurable* via button
-Micro pump drive output with sure-start.

**Configurable option include:
>Channel pwm pulse polarity
>Drive current range
>Low voltage warning type
>Low voltage cutoff type and level
>High temp cutoff level
>Pump drive level.

http://www.truerc.net/images/driver.JPG

-Hugo

philthyy
11th February 2014, 04:47 PM
Sweeeeeet! So is this your website?

http://truerc.com/

HugeOne
11th February 2014, 05:10 PM
This is the US site own and operated by a different person, Daniel a good friend.
My site:
www.truerc.net/canada

-Hugo

HugeOne
15th February 2014, 01:27 PM
Here it is in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDSbqEJtOZ0&list=UUt-x1tJQ_HYyYlbzy7trhYg&feature=c4-overview

Next I should do a flight vid.

I also designed a spot with tilt mechanism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP7jfur7GeA&list=UUt-x1tJQ_HYyYlbzy7trhYg&feature=c4-overview

-Hugo

HugeOne
18th February 2014, 10:26 PM
Here's the preliminary manual (http://www.truerc.net/images/rc6flexmanual.pdf) of the RC6Flex

Let me know if you have any question.

Hugo

HugeOne
20th February 2014, 01:35 AM
Someone here sent me a PM, but cannot reply as its box is full, so hoping you recognize yourself here.

I fixed the link:
www.truerc.net/images/rc6flexmanual.pdf (http://www.truerc.net/images/rc6flexmanual.pdf)

The driver can power up to 4 lamps in series if 5S lipo is used, 3 lamps on 4S, 2 lamps on 3S and one on 2S.
Parallel may work, but the I would avoid it unless specials conditions are met, more on this in the manual.

I have lamps ready, but waiting for a batch of drivers that should be there next week.

Cheer

-Hugo

philthyy
20th February 2014, 12:13 PM
Two lamps on 3s sounds like a perfect dual headlight system for my flying wing...Very cool!

HugeOne
23rd February 2014, 10:00 PM
Went outside for a quick vid, like you can see it work really well.
Camera used is a PZ0420 with the usual daytime setting (colors)
The cam's lens is 2.1mm and light reflector is 10deg. spot so only a portion of the image is lighted up, still pretty cool.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm7o52uarxc&feature=youtu.be

-Hugo

WillM
23rd February 2014, 10:30 PM
Hugo,

That looks great!

- Will

philthyy
24th February 2014, 12:39 PM
WOW! Loving it! Looks like a 10 degree optics actually is perfect.

HugeOne
11th March 2014, 11:57 PM
Flood light with GoPro3+silver


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAgsNSwq9AI&feature=youtu.be

-Hugo

Locko
18th March 2014, 09:02 AM
When will you get stock of headlights in?. And Im having no joy of finding them on RMRC website.

HugeOne
18th March 2014, 09:41 AM
The parts needed are waiting for pickup at the post-office right now, so tomorrow I should list some stock. RMRC have them on hand but haven't listed them yet, you are welcome to spam them about the lights :)

-Hugo

HugeOne
19th March 2014, 12:13 AM
Added some stock...


-Hugo

Locko
19th March 2014, 08:53 AM
Added some stock...


-Hugo

Cheers mate, Just brought one from your site.Got a spotlight and floodlight to test out.

HugeOne
30th March 2014, 11:05 AM
http://www.truerc.net/images/quadlight.jpg

TBS disco with two floods and two spots independently controlled.

This is a good example of how to mount the lights on a quad.

-Hugo

Superevan
30th March 2014, 06:07 PM
It appears as though you already have an Eagle Tree Vector...mmm hmm. I see. :p

HugeOne
1st April 2014, 12:38 PM
Another vid:


http://youtu.be/j8LkCrtMPo4

-Hugo

Superevan
2nd April 2014, 09:20 AM
Hugo, will the rccc from RMRC drive one of these cree xm-l2 lamps? Looks like it's rated at up to 2amps.

http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11_66_111&products_id=1283

HugeOne
2nd April 2014, 09:24 AM
The rccc is a switch, not a driver. If you power a LED with this it will instapop.

Hugo

Superevan
2nd April 2014, 10:25 AM
Derp. Glad I asked first!

So would I need to get a driver first and run power to it from the RCCC switch? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CREE-10W-LED-Flashlight-Driver-2A-Constant-1-2-LED-3-16V-17mm-XM-L2-T6-U2-/131135364874?_trksid=p2054897.l4275

HugeOne
2nd April 2014, 10:43 AM
Should work, but why not get the RC6Flex driver instead?
It's close to the same price as switch plus ebay driver, plus you get dimming, up to 6.6A and many other feature.

Hugo

Superevan
2nd April 2014, 10:53 AM
I actually already have the RCCC for some of it's other functions (camera switcher, camera shutter, powering LED light strips, on board gopro charging) but was trying to reduce redundancy of electronics on board.

RC6Flex is definitely top of the list though!

HugeOne
17th April 2014, 09:21 PM
I modified the lamps so they now have a tilt axis and hold screw & bolt.

http://www.truerc.net/images/tilt.jpg

http://www.truerc.net/images/dbltilt.jpg

Also, for those who run the RC6Flex with a UHF system.
-Use a ferrite ring on the signal wire, 6-8 turns near the driver.
-Use some separation and don't have wires pass right over the inductor.

I use two on my quad and no loss of range. See my install: (they share the same ferrite.)

http://www.truerc.net/images/rc6flexuhf.jpg

-Hugo

philthyy
21st April 2014, 01:42 AM
Excellent! I really like the install. Looks like two of these lights is all you need for multi rotor nighttime FPV fun.

HugeOne
21st April 2014, 09:38 AM
Yes, I use four because I want to do HD footage with the gopro, which is not very light sensitive compared to the usual FPV cam.


-Hugo

HugeOne
22nd May 2014, 12:15 PM
Good news!

I found some high quality IR led that should adapt to my existing housing and lens.
Excellent for those who want more discretion :)

-Hugo

HugeOne
29th May 2014, 09:14 AM
Quick test of the new IR LED:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7vAIkrkMv4&feature=youtu.be

Setup used:
Two LED on flood 30x60 optics
PZ0420 B/W mode

It seem to produce less illumination than the regular LED, but the two IR make only 4W, while a single XM-L2 is 10W
The low Vf of the IR LED permit 3 LED on 3S maybe 4. With 4 LED illumination should be adequate for the PZ0420.
I believe the PZ0420 is not IR filtered, anyone can confirm?

-Hugo

philthyy
29th May 2014, 11:32 AM
The PZ0420 is NOT IR filtered. The PZ0420H IS IR filtered.

HugeOne
21st July 2014, 12:28 AM
First flight of the RVjet at night:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BTKSHEXnQ&feature=youtu.be

-Hugo

Superevan
16th August 2014, 01:55 PM
Hugo, I've go my RC6flex wired up and the led working perfectly, but the mot drain for the 5v fan is only outputting 3v even though the positive is wired to the 5v rail of the rx. Sorry if I'm missing the obvious but I cannot figure out why this is happening.

HugeOne
16th August 2014, 05:06 PM
I guess you have 5Vrail >> fan >> mot drain and you measure 3V on the fan.
It is normal, if you measure while you power up the LED, you'll see 5V for 1sec and then fall back to 3V (60%). My mini pumps are 3V rated, but I start them at 5V to make sure they start spinning.
The fall back voltage can be adjusted with the prog button, look in the manual. Set it to 100% for 5V.

-Hugo

Superevan
16th August 2014, 06:06 PM
Ahh, that makes sense. I'll try setting to 100%.

Superevan
17th August 2014, 09:44 AM
Yep that worked! Changing settings is nice and easy.

HugeOne
17th August 2014, 10:19 AM
Little video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdgJdKJa6Fk&feature=youtu.be

-Hugo

philthyy
18th August 2014, 11:29 AM
Hugo, that is amazing! Love the perspective of a quad/flying style with those lights blazing away like that. I wonder if it would help to add two more lights, shining outwards left and right so that the entire camera FOV is lit up? I suppose it might not matter to the flight cam, as their FOV is usually much much less than a GoPro, so you wouldn't be able to see anything that far off to the sides anyway...?

I'm assuming that HD footage was from a GoPro. Or was that Mobius footage?

HugeOne
18th August 2014, 11:51 AM
The footage is from a gopro 3+ silver. Adding two light at an angle will probably provide better coverage for the gopro. Best thing would be a U shaped reflector with a row of LEDs inside as the XM-L LED have a natural 120deg beam, just like what I did with my twinstar.

-Hugo

Superevan
5th September 2014, 05:42 PM
Hugo, LED, driver and cooling fan are now working perfectly but when I turn the LED on my brushless gimbal goes crazy. I suspect this is from the RC6flex driver pulsing back through the power lines and upsetting the sensors in the gimbal. Have you run across anything like this before? I coiled the power wires through a ferrite ring and that provided a noticeable difference, but not enough for me to feel comfortable with. I'm going to whip up an LC filter tonight to see if that will eliminate the problem completely. Let me know if you suspect something else is going on!

Evan

HugeOne
5th September 2014, 06:41 PM
I had the exact same problem. Watch the big inductor on top of the driver, make sure no wires pass near it and also make sure wiring from the driver/lamp does not bundle up with other wires.

Hugo

Superevan
6th September 2014, 11:49 AM
I had the exact same problem. Watch the big inductor on top of the driver, make sure no wires pass near it and also make sure wiring from the driver/lamp does not bundle up with other wires.

Hugo

I'll do this as well, thanks!

philthyy
6th September 2014, 03:36 PM
Yes, on a CC/CV driver such as this, there are high current spikes through the inductor that will certainly build large, dynamic electromagnetic fields that can affect nearby wires. Physically separating the LED driver from the gimbal and any other control wires will help considerably.

HugeOne
23rd September 2014, 08:25 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ2jEBReUgk&list=UUt-x1tJQ_HYyYlbzy7trhYg

Video made last night, look like I'll switch to flood lights as the WDR needed to handle the spots slow the cam down and really smear the image.

-Hugo

It went BANG
3rd October 2014, 12:23 PM
<!--><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Has anyone considered the newer max light/watt champ Cree XLamp MK-R LEDs?

#Note: the new titleholder is ONLY when compared at 1 Watt :p

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Light output

"XLamp XM-L2 - Up to 1052 lm @ 10 W, 85°C"
"XLamp MK-R - - Up to 1769 lm @ 15 W, 85°C"


Download data sheet - http://www.cree.com/led-components-and-modules/products/xlamp/arrays-directional/%7E/media/Files/Cree/LED%20Components%20and%20Modules/XLamp/Data%20and%20Binning/XLampMKR.pdf

When compared to xm-l2 leds – you can get more light out for your watt; OR maybe run it cooler for the same light out as the improvement in heat transfer is impressive IMO – “Thermal resistance, junction to solder point °C/W is 1.7” for MK-R versus "2.5” for XM-L2 ; 4 dies on the one chip may give a better spread of light (??)
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Although Hugo’s driver takes care of just about everything, this LED is a little unusual in that it comes in “Two voltage options: 6 v & 12 v”


Paste from CREE -


Specifications (http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Products/XLamp/Arrays-Directional/XLamp-MKR#)

<table style="border-right: thin solid;" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" border="1"><tbody><tr> <td valign="middle">Size (mm x mm)</td> <td valign="middle">7 x 7</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Product options </td> <td valign="middle">6 V, 12 V </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Maximum drive current (A)</td> <td valign="middle">2.5 (6 V), 1.25 (12.5 V)</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Maximum power (W)</td> <td valign="middle">15</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Light output</td> <td valign="middle">Up to 1769 lm @ 15 W, 85°C</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Typical forward voltage (V)</td> <td valign="middle">11.7</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Viewing angle (degrees)</td> <td valign="middle">120</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Binning</td> <td valign="middle">85°C, ANSI White, 2- and 4-Step EasyWhite (http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and-Modules/Tools-and-Support/FAQs)®</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Thermal resistance (°C/W)</td> <td valign="middle">1.7</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">Reflow-solderable</td> <td valign="middle">Yes – JEDEC J-STD-020C-compatible</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">RoHS and REACH-compliant</td> <td valign="middle">Yes</td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="middle">UL-recognized component </td> <td valign="middle">Yes - Level 4 Enclosure Consideration</td></tr></tbody></table>



Of course being the new champ they are more expensive… about the same as when the XML’s were first released.

Paste [I](below) from Cutter Electronics. They put this example on copper star heatsinks and so you're also paying for pure copper... they also sell the LED unmounted if you want to have a go at mounting the die yourself :rolleyes: –




Delivering up to 200 Lumens per Watt

The Cutter-MKR20STR-3D-H2 is a Full Copper MCPCB with the latest Cree MKR led.

Features of the Copper PCB

135 W/m.k. – 385 W/m.k. heat transfer rate
Direct thermal path, no dielectric
Lower junction temperature
Lower thermal resistance
Longer LED life
Enables a higher drive Current
Most economical DIRECT THERMAL PATH solution
Same footprint as traditional MCPCB
No design change required. i.e. existing MCPCB design can be used
Multilayer PCB possible without increased thermal resistance

This is a Cool white. Part number. MKRAWT-00-0000-0D0HH20E3 Tint is 3D 4900K

Price: 13.99 (15.39 Inc. Tax)

HugeOne
4th October 2014, 12:21 AM
I'm looking at the MK-R for a next high-lumens airplane project. Look like I could squeeze 2000 lumens out of one if properly cooled. Their bigger size will also make mounting on a copper tube easier than the relatively tiny XM-L.

-Hugo

It went BANG
4th October 2014, 01:10 PM
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->
I'm looking at... mounting on a copper tube easier than the relatively tiny XM-L.
-Hugo

hmm... food for thought.

Is this what you had in mind, an appropriately sized tube cap?

http://www.hailiang.eu/upfiles/1228728737Tube-cap.jpg

Maybe a tee (or reducing tee {weight}) would work if you could find one light enough... mount the LED on the front of the bottom of the tee so that the tube is above it. Align the pipe along the flight path so that air will flow down both the outside & inside. Problem is of course weight... cut parts off that don't add to cooling to keep the weight down.

http://www.reuk.co.uk/OtherImages/copper-pipe-and-fittings-for-solar-panel.jpg

or another idea tho you loose the effect of air passing both sides of the tube -

http://cdn.instructables.com/FH4/Y2GC/G7DYJ7XA/FH4Y2GCG7DYJ7XA.LARGE.jpg

How about a variation on the tee... do as I suggested above with the pipe above the LED; then using Hugo's mounting frame you could use some copper foil ie.

http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/863.11/people/jenny.broutin/images/projects_week13-10.jpg

Solder fins down the length of the top copper tube and align them up with the fins of the housing. You could maybe use some solid copper wire on the leading & trailing edges of the foil to give the fins some strength to stay flat... this will also keep them aligned with the housing fins. With all the surface area of the fins I think you could get rid of a lot of waste heat this way. This uses the cooling effects of radiative, convective and forced convection ie.
PS. imagine fins instead of the hex columns in this drawing -
http://www.comsol.com/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Forced-convection-streamlines-and-temperature-profile-around-an-heat-sink.png



The first time you do this (say) for a prototype, it would be fiddly to solder the fins. If you were going to make a few of these time vested in a jig would be well worth the effort.
Hard solder (50/50) would be highly desirable for the additional strength.

OBTW Hugo, what are those black housings you are using to mount the LEDS from?

tnx.

HugeOne
4th October 2014, 03:04 PM
By "copper tubes" I meant this:

http://www.truerc.net/images/tube.JPG

http://www.truerc.net/images/leds1.JPG

The heat pads are soldered on the tubes, leaving the connection pads exposed on each sides for the wiring.
Water circulate in the tubes by mean of a pump.. More details here:
http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?258-Night-flying-TSII-with-300W-leds-headlight

The black housings are 3D printed ABS.

-Hugo

It went BANG
5th October 2014, 08:27 AM
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:DoNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> OIC... you've done a lot of work in this area.

Hey thanks for the link... I had yet to discover it.

Great job on the "TSII with 300W leds” Hugo – you really go all out to make it work well. :cool:

I'm amazed at how much more efficient your water cooling is!

Working thru the other threads :D

Superevan
21st October 2014, 01:56 PM
Yes, on a CC/CV driver such as this, there are high current spikes through the inductor that will certainly build large, dynamic electromagnetic fields that can affect nearby wires. Physically separating the LED driver from the gimbal and any other control wires will help considerably.

Hugo or philthyy, any more tips on isolating the driver's from everything else? My current airframe is a Talon Tricopter, so not a lot of space to work with, and turning the LED on is wreaking havoc on a lot of my other systems.

Example: Everything is biz as usual on power up but when I turn the LED on my camera switcher stops responding and before my bl gimbal would spaz out (fixed that with an LC filter and toroid before the gimbal). I'm going to try another toroid on the power/dimmer switch's signal wire back to the rx. Maybe the driver is introducing some interference back into it.

If that doesn't work I might dial it way back and think about component placement a little harder (I have a bad habit of over complicating things). I've also seen some guys here using wire mesh tape wrapped around wiring to act as a mini faraday cage.

HugeOne
21st October 2014, 02:15 PM
First thing a ferrite should be on the dimmer control wire, the one provided with the driver is for that.

-Hugo

Superevan
25th October 2014, 02:11 PM
First thing a ferrite should be on the dimmer control wire, the one provided with the driver is for that.

-Hugo

That cleared things up. Thanks Hugo!

HugeOne
9th March 2015, 11:43 AM
I got a XHP70 N2 bin ad made some quick testing. (In 6V configuration)

-Soldered the heat pad to 1/8 square copper tube.
-Built a crude lux meter with a LLS-05A linear light sensor
-Ran the test with icy water cooling.

Here's the data:
http://www.truerc.net/images/xhp70bed.jpg

http://www.truerc.net/images/xhp70flux.jpg

At 9A the LED is eating a whooping 63W.

The 1/8 copper tube is a bit narrow for the heat pad, next, I will solder the LED on three 1/8" tube side to side so the + and - pads are sinking heat as well.

-Hugo

HugeOne
11th March 2015, 09:04 AM
Made a better heat-sink:

http://www.truerc.net/images/xhp70bed2.jpg

And the results:

http://www.truerc.net/images/xhp70flux2.jpg

Pushed the LED to 10A, the heat-sink topped at 32C and Vf was 7.28V

Theses preliminary tests look good for my next project:
http://www.truerc.net/images/xhp70project.jpg

-Hugo

philthyy
15th March 2015, 08:44 PM
Excellent work, Hugo! So mind blowing that you're pushing over 70 watts through a single LED!! Who would have imagined this would be possible just two short years ago??

HugeOne
7th October 2015, 02:38 PM
669006690166902

4000lumens each long reach spot lights with optional aspheric attachment for ultra long reach. The pictured pair weight only 120g including wiring and driver (RC6Flex). Built for SAR drones or similar applications.

-Hugo

philthyy
8th October 2015, 09:03 PM
BEAUTIFUL! They look very polished and ready for production. You ARE selling these, right? And the RC6Flex driver is built in, I'm assuming?

HugeOne
8th October 2015, 10:23 PM
You ARE selling these, right?

Not yet, but will. Now the RC6Flex is standing alone with a length of cable between the driver and lamps. The driver could be build-in as well.

-Hugo