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siforek
4th June 2016, 05:36 AM
First off I'm new, hope this is in the right place :P

I'm just ordering a QAV-R airframe & since I caught the bug last week have been non stop cramming with as much data on my future build as possible. Starting last week thinking racing quads are kind of cool to now being totally stoked & having a decent understanding of all the parts & how they work together. I can probably manage spreading this build with all the fpv hardware over a few paychecks so my goal is 90 days till the first flight.

After getting the airframe I'll be looking for PDB(if alternate like the QUADREVO w/OSD), ESCso, Flight controller & motors. I known what I could use to end up with a fast quad but I'd like any suggestions you might have on what I should use to get this quad to really scream!

Originally I was looking at the Skitzo 2500kv with 30A BLHeli ESCs but just noticed the RX1806-13 2500kv with an extra 1/2 amp & I'm now even looking at the Cobra 2800kv. I'm a computer programmer by day so I think I can handle any technicals needed & I'm not afraid of spending more for better results but I'm still not 100% on the most ideal setup.

Also over at http://fpv-flightclub.com/product/lumenier-qavr-build-kit/ they're suggesting the Dodo Rev 3a being a F3 controller & seems to make more sense. All in all I've seen a lot of builds/videos that might be typical what works well configurations or even just what someone knowing less than I do throwing together parts they'really pretty sure about.

Either way I want my quad to fly like it's the 10th one I've built after learning hundreds of mistakes & every little thing about the different hardware without spending my mortgage or equivalent. I'm extremely great full for any help in this journey I'm taking :)

Wilki
5th June 2016, 08:11 PM
If you haven't seen this site, it's worth checking out for motor and ESC comparisons: http://www.miniquadtestbench.com/results/

siforek
5th June 2016, 08:46 PM
If you haven't seen this site, it's worth checking out for motor and ESC comparisons: http://www.miniquadtestbench.com/results/

Thanks! This looks really helpful with all the motor results. Not many ESC tests yet but still a good amount of data.

siforek
6th June 2016, 04:06 AM
I'm really liking what I've seen of the F60 2450kv http://www.miniquadtestbench.com/t-motor-f60-2207-2450kv.html only thing is the weight at 35g it's much more than the 21g I was looking at with the Skitzo but the performance is insane enough to it might be worth it. I can't seem to find anywhere to order it yet. What do you think?

Wilki
6th June 2016, 05:15 AM
I'm really liking what I've seen of the F60 2450kv http://www.miniquadtestbench.com/t-motor-f60-2207-2450kv.html only thing is the weight at 35g it's much more than the 21g I was looking at with the Skitzo but the performance is insane enough to it might be worth it. I can't seem to find anywhere to order it yet. What do you think?

Yeah those F60 2450KV motors look like they have a lot of potential! But yeah I agree, the weight is something to consider, and also, more thrust means more amp draw means you might want to go for a heavier battery? It could be amazing, or it could handle like a flying brick :P

I think given that you said in your original post that you want to have a quad that flies well without wishing you had other parts, I think you should do a standard build that everyone loves:
2205 2300KV motors
1300mAh 4S
5040 tri blade props

So many people have this setup and love it for acro flying. With this setup you know you'll get a decent flight time and a respectable amount of power.

siforek
6th June 2016, 05:10 PM
Yeah those F60 2450KV motors look like they have a lot of potential! But yeah I agree, the weight is something to consider, and also, more thrust means more amp draw means you might want to go for a heavier battery? It could be amazing, or it could handle like a flying brick :P

I think given that you said in your original post that you want to have a quad that flies well without wishing you had other parts, I think you should do a standard build that everyone loves:
2205 2300KV motors
1300mAh 4S
5040 tri blade props

So many people have this setup and love it for acro flying. With this setup you know you'll get a decent flight time and a respectable amount of power.

That makes a lot of sense. 5040 sounds good but why wouldn't I go with the Skitzo at 21g? Or RX2206-11 2350Kv at 26g?

I'm thinking I'll try the Tattu 1550 75c to give me a bit more than the standard 1300s. When I compare the weight of other commonly used motors there's a lot around the 27g range & my thoughts are that by cutting a few grams here & there on other parts I'll be able to end up with the same total weight .

The FrSky D4R-II is 5.8g but I was already planning on using the XSR, so there's 2g, the Lumenier TX5G6R Mini 600mW is 7.5g, almost half that of a Fatshark 250mw, etc. It'll help I'm sure but obviously weight on the motors/exterior vs weight on the core is going to fly different. I guess that's why people change parts after flying & seeing their first had results. I just saw those numbers http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4O1mxZ6USik & got really excited :)

Another think, I see a lot of builds with 200-250mw TXs that seem to have good range but just assumed 600mw would be best. Why would someone use 200 over 600 & what is race bad really?

Thanks again. Can't wait to post some videos of this badboy.

Wilki
6th June 2016, 07:44 PM
That makes a lot of sense. 5040 sounds good but why wouldn't I go with the Skitzo at 21g? Or RX2206-11 2350Kv at 26g?

I'm thinking I'll try the Tattu 1550 75c to give me a bit more than the standard 1300s. When I compare the weight of other commonly used motors there's a lot around the 27g range & my thoughts are that by cutting a few grams here & there on other parts I'll be able to end up with the same total weight .

The FrSky D4R-II is 5.8g but I was already planning on using the XSR, so there's 2g, the Lumenier TX5G6R Mini 600mW is 7.5g, almost half that of a Fatshark 250mw, etc. It'll help I'm sure but obviously weight on the motors/exterior vs weight on the core is going to fly different. I guess that's why people change parts after flying & seeing their first had results. I just saw those numbers http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4O1mxZ6USik & got really excited :)

Another think, I see a lot of builds with 200-250mw TXs that seem to have good range but just assumed 600mw would be best. Why would someone use 200 over 600 & what is race bad really?

Thanks again. Can't wait to post some videos of this badboy.

Ryan(who owns that miniquadtestbecnch site) said the Luminieer 2206 2350KV motors didn't perform as well as others. Honestly, it's all splitting hairs at this point. You've done enough research that anything you buy is going to be great fun.

As for VTX, I've had quite a few, from 25mW to 600mW 5.8ghz transmitters. For proximity flying, I found them all to perform very similarly. The last 4 transmitters I've bought were the banggood ET200, they are small, cheap, and I like the ease of changing channels with the button.

siforek
6th June 2016, 08:08 PM
Ryan(who owns that miniquadtestbecnch site) said the Luminieer 2206 2350KV motors didn't perform as well as others. Honestly, it's all splitting hairs at this point. You've done enough research that anything you buy is going to be great fun.

As for VTX, I've had quite a few, from 25mW to 600mW 5.8ghz transmitters. For proximity flying, I found them all to perform very similarly. The last 4 transmitters I've bought were the banggood ET200, they are small, cheap, and I like the ease of changing channels with the button.

Yeah I've actually been chatting with him a bit & should see the Skitzo results soon. I guess really what I want is something between the 2. Ideally no more than 27g but at least 1000+ thrust w/5040s.

Technically 600mw is going to travel more than 25mw & on 5.8ghz I figured 600 would be better to penetrate walls, trees etc. But you're saying you've got similar performance from either? Wouldn't 25mw usee less power? I assumed that's the trade off & naturally 600mw is going to go farther even with a small antenna. Or am I wrong?

Wilki
6th June 2016, 08:32 PM
Yeah I've actually been chatting with him a bit & should see the Skitzo results soon. I guess really what I want is something between the 2. Ideally no more than 27g but at least 1000+ thrust w/5040s.

Technically 600mw is going to travel more than 25mw & on 5.8ghz I figured 600 would be better to penetrate walls, trees etc. But you're saying you've got similar performance from either? Wouldn't 25mw usee less power? I assumed that's the trade off & naturally 600mw is going to go farther even with a small antenna. Or am I wrong?

600mW is outputting more power for sure, but from my experience it's hard for me to tell the difference.
My 25mW transmitters are immersionRC, so maybe they have a higher build quality and filtering making them comparable to the higher powered but cheap banggood transmitters.
Something that has blown my mind and does appear to make a big difference is this receiver:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLcRIEPffdQ

Wilki
7th June 2016, 01:01 AM
And the results are in: http://www.miniquadtestbench.com/lumenier-rb2204-2500kv.html
As usual Ryan's comments on the motor and recommendations for uses are 100% spot on IMO.

siforek
11th June 2016, 04:48 PM
Yeah looks like I'll be waiting till the 25th for the 2450kv F60s, now it's just a matter of the ESCs to power them. I was looking at lot at these http://www.getfpv.com/electronics/lumenier-30a-blheli-esc-2-4s.html & definitely want BLHeli but am having a hard time understanding the need for BEC. If I use this PXB http://quadrevo.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56 doesn't it provide the 5v not only for my flight controller but power for my VTX, radio RX etc?

I ask because I'm seeing these http://www.getfpv.com/electronics/lumenier-f390-30a-blheli-esc-opto-2-4s.html that are lighter.

Also I was considering KISS 30A ESCs but doesn't look like they support Simone, BLHELI & I've read a lot about them burning up, but then others swear by them. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks again for all your help everyone!

siforek
11th June 2016, 04:48 PM
Yeah looks like I'll be waiting till the 25th for the 2450kv F60s, now it's just a matter of the ESCs to power them. I was looking at lot at these http://www.getfpv.com/electronics/lumenier-30a-blheli-esc-2-4s.html & definitely want BLHeli but am having a hard time understanding the need for BEC. If I use this PXB http://quadrevo.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56 doesn't it provide the 5v not only for my flight controller but power for my VTX, radio RX etc?

I ask because I'm seeing these http://www.getfpv.com/electronics/lumenier-f390-30a-blheli-esc-opto-2-4s.html that are lighter.

Also I was considering KISS 30A ESCs but doesn't look like they support Simone, BLHELI & I've read a lot about them burning up, but then others swear by them. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks again for all your help everyone!

TalonSix
12th June 2016, 07:35 PM
Have you looked at the QAV-R build video on FPV-Flightclub? http://fpv-flightclub.com/build-qav-r/ Mike on FPV-Flightclub tests his setups pretty extensively and I've had good luck following his guides and component selections. Something said many times before on FPVlabs but worth repeating is that the best thing you can do as a new guy is copy someone else's build.

I bring this up because I just spent a frustrating day of flying with a friend who chose to try to build a QAV-R dream machine with and RMRC Dodo FC & OSDoge pushing Lumenier 2206s and RMRC 30A ESCs. He's been having weird problems with motor #2's authority to stop hard rolls and pitchovers despite replacement of both the ESC and the motor. It works for a little while, but over the duration of the pack the motor loses more and more thrust. It's very weird and extremely frustrating for him as you can imagine.

Meanwhile I'm running an identical FC/OSDoge setup but with RMRC 20A ESCs and Lumenier 2204s without any issues whatsoever. I suspect that on my buddys quad it's the ESC/motor combo that he chose, but I'm not smart enough to know anything other than his powertrain is hot when he lands and mine is not.

Here's a couple pictures of my build:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7381/27560295681_6231486496_b.jpg
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7702/27560295461_989d78004b_b.jpg

So bottom line to this long rant is that you should stick with combos that are known to work before trying to cobble something together on your first build. I promise you that this will not be your last...

- Matt

siforek
12th June 2016, 08:44 PM
Have you looked at the QAV-R build video on FPV-Flightclub? http://fpv-flightclub.com/build-qav-r/ Mike on FPV-Flightclub tests his setups pretty extensively and I've had good luck following his guides and component selections. Something said many times before on FPVlabs but worth repeating is that the best thing you can do as a new guy is copy someone else's build.

I bring this up because I just spent a frustrating day of flying with a friend who chose to try to build a QAV-R dream machine with and RMRC Dodo FC & OSDoge pushing Lumenier 2206s and RMRC 30A ESCs. He's been having weird problems with motor #2's authority to stop hard rolls and pitchovers despite replacement of both the ESC and the motor. It works for a little while, but over the duration of the pack the motor loses more and more thrust. It's very weird and extremely frustrating for him as you can imagine.

Meanwhile I'm running an identical FC/OSDoge setup but with RMRC 20A ESCs and Lumenier 2204s without any issues whatsoever. I suspect that on my buddys quad it's the ESC/motor combo that he chose, but I'm not smart enough to know anything other than his powertrain is hot when he lands and mine is not.

Here's a couple pictures of my build:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7381/27560295681_6231486496_b.jpg
https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7702/27560295461_989d78004b_b.jpg

So bottom line to this long rant is that you should stick with combos that are known to work before trying to cobble something together on your first build. I promise you that this will not be your last...

- Matt

Yeah actually that's who I got the idea to use the same PDB & Flight controller from, I'm going to try some of his 3d printed parts too.

Wilki
13th June 2016, 05:19 AM
Yeah looks like I'll be waiting till the 25th for the 2450kv F60s, now it's just a matter of the ESCs to power them. I was looking at lot at these http://www.getfpv.com/electronics/lumenier-30a-blheli-esc-2-4s.html & definitely want BLHeli but am having a hard time understanding the need for BEC. If I use this PXB http://quadrevo.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56 doesn't it provide the 5v not only for my flight controller but power for my VTX, radio RX etc?

I ask because I'm seeing these http://www.getfpv.com/electronics/lumenier-f390-30a-blheli-esc-opto-2-4s.html that are lighter.

Also I was considering KISS 30A ESCs but doesn't look like they support Simone, BLHELI & I've read a lot about them burning up, but then others swear by them. Thoughts, suggestions? Thanks again for all your help everyone!

Yeah that PDB has a 5V output so you don't need a BEC.

I haven't heard much about Lumineer ESCs, but they seem very expensive for what they are. The XM30a is a known awesome ESC and is cheaper, so personally I'd choose that.

siforek
13th June 2016, 12:38 PM
Yeah that PDB has a 5V output so you don't need a BEC.

I haven't heard much about Lumineer ESCs, but they seem very expensive for what they are. The XM30a is a known awesome ESC and is cheaper, so personally I'd choose that.

I think I'm going to try out DYS' new XS30A with the F60 2450kvs. Other than the motors & esc I'll be using the same configuration as fpv Flight club, same PDB, dodo flight controller etc.

I was looking at another flight controller I might try later, it's in beta I think & runs Race Flight https://bluejayrc.com/ ever heard of it?

I was also looking at SP Racing F3 Deluxe but looks like the Dodo has a better processor & I can't really tell if the upgraded compass & barometer would even matter.

Wilki
13th June 2016, 07:19 PM
I think I'm going to try out DYS' new XS30A with the F60 2450kvs. Other than the motors & esc I'll be using the same configuration as fpv Flight club, same PDB, dodo flight controller etc.

I was looking at another flight controller I might try later, it's in beta I think & runs Race Flight https://bluejayrc.com/ ever heard of it?

I was also looking at SP Racing F3 Deluxe but looks like the Dodo has a better processor & I can't really tell if the upgraded compass & barometer would even matter.

Nice, the XS30 ESC should be good I think!

I have heard of the bluejayf4, looks good!

Compass and Baro are only needed if you want to do automated flight - position hold, return to home, etc.
I wouldn't expect those to be desired features on a racing quad.

siforek
14th June 2016, 01:45 AM
Nice, the XS30 ESC should be good I think!

I have heard of the bluejayf4, looks good!

Compass and Baro are only needed if you want to do automated flight - position hold, return to home, etc.
I wouldn't expect those to be desired features on a racing quad.

OK that makes sense. I'm pretty sure the Dodo will be a good choice, at least for now. Now I'm just trying to decide on the PDB & OSD. I thought the QUADREVO PowerOSD was a shoe in but like many of them it looks like it's limited at 100A. Is that enough? I'm just imagining 4x the 32A my motors with 5040 props max out at, while rare would leave the PDB as the bottleneck. Am I getting that right?

The Atlas Pro max is 110A so that helps but then I'm looking for a seperate OSD.

siforek
14th June 2016, 02:25 AM
After a bit more research I came across the Demon Core http://demonrc.eu/product/demon-core-v2/ which has 120A constant, 180A burst which would be more than enough :P So if that makes sense perhaps a seperate OSD would be ok. The OSDoge seems to be 1 of the best but I'm not sure.

I will say that at least the other PDBs have +/ground points on both sides, I don't know about the QuadRevo with one on either side, it's weird isn't it?

siforek
21st July 2016, 01:47 PM
So just an update.. I ended up going with the Demon Core PDB, DYS' new XS30A ESCs & T-Motor's new F60 2450kv motors. I also got a Lumenier CS-650 camera, TX5GA adjustable transmitter & some IBCrazy bluebeam omni antennas. All I'm waiting for now is my BlueJayF4 flight controller which rev3 should ship from Australia any day now, so within 2-3 weeks I should be in the air! :)

Also I was not only able to get my wife into racing quads (she's building QAV250) but my boss at work too & while my wife letting me spend all this $ was great getting 2 pairs of goggles isn't cheap.. It turns out getting my boss into this paid off cause he made up a weekend incentive which resulted in my company buying us 2 pair of Dominator HD goggles! :) long story short, I didn't have to sell my kidneys lol

siforek
21st July 2016, 03:37 PM
73652
So just an update.. I ended up going with the Demon Core PDB, DYS' new XS30A ESCs & T-Motor's new F60 2450kv motors. I also got a Lumenier CS-650 camera, TX5GA adjustable transmitter & some IBCrazy blue beam omni antennas. All I'm waiting for now is my BlueJayF4 flight controller which rev3 should ship from Australia any day now, so within 2-3 weeks I should be in the air! :)

Also I was not only able to get my wife into racing quads (she's building QAV250) but my boss at work too & while my wife letting me spend all this $ was great getting 2 pairs of goggles isn't cheap.. It turns out getting my boss into this paid off cause he made up a weekend incentive which resulted in my company buying us 2 pair of Dominator HD goggles! :) long story short, I didn't have to sell my kidneys lol