PDA

View Full Version : FPV racing and why it’s stupid.



Pages : [1] 2

squishy
3rd March 2016, 06:53 PM
FPV racing and why it’s stupid.
Sure FPV racing is fun, maybe with a small group of about 8 pilots where you might actually get some stick time and not care who wins. Otherwise, it’s become nightmare, designed and born from the vision of $’s and fame dancing in the minds of any charlatan as he saw it for the first time on YouTube or Facebook posts. “This is the future” they muttered in unison as they drew a logo and laid plans for world domination of the subject, and that meant pioneering standards. Those who pioneer the standards of any new activity or sport put their name forever on the budding sport, like anything else that came before it. In order to implement those standards these charlatans needed leagues and organizations, official only in appearance, in order to dupe the world into adopting FPV racing hook-line-and-sinker.
I watched as the those people threw down their own funds in order to launch those very leagues and hold events so grand in appearance that they could not be ignored by the existing FPV industry, pilots and even the public. Drone Racing, as we know it today, is not what was seen in those very 1st examples. As I type, another event with international implications is making waves around the world. Money is being spent at an alarming rate; pilots are spell bound by the magnitude of it all. It seems every FPV pilot in the world has joined a small team and thrown themselves and their hard eared cash in the ring in order to win a prize, gain fame, more sponsorships or simply say they were the best at something on a given day. I do not see one worthy reason for any FPV pilot to get involved. Unless those things are what you seek from your hobby and free time. Typically we choose to escape through our hobbies instead of creating more stress and anxiety in our lives. Is this a sport or a hobby, make up your mind.
FPV racing as it stands today has lost touch with the very culture and people that bore it. Even the most famous, the most skilled pilots held up as its super stars are beginners to the rich and lasting heritage of FPV radio controlled flight. Much of the influx into the hobby has been driven purely through FPV racing videos, new RTF racing aircraft and the excitement drummed up for events. They have created an entire new market of people who want to race and fly but have no idea how to solder, and frankly, they don’t want to learn and have zero interest in our hobby as it was yesterday. We have invited the worst of our populace into our home, and we have failed to guide them appropriately. We have allowed the charlatan to lower the bar of entrance, to bring the mountain down to the size of the common man in order to grow the market and dup even more pilots into the sport. The pile of broken props, for an unworthy cause, grows deeper every single day. For that mistake we will lose the culture, traditions and the very hobby that built FPV racing. But I think we can still turn it around if we wish.
Chad, the US National Drone champion, posted a video recently expressing much of the same thing with much more tact than I. Charpu showed to the US Nationals last year and felt it then; I watched it in his eyes as he scanned the scene upon arriving and soon left to find a quiet park to fly. Every day during that week long event the pilots met in a park or go-kart track afterwards and enjoyed FPV and each other more than they did the races themselves. That event became famous and great for one main reason. The networking and off the track experiences that everyone felt and wrote about, were grand to say the least. The drone racing was not the take away and the media and organizers (even the pilots) failed to realize the value of what they had when they all 1st met. Like minds formed innovative partnerships that day behind the scenes to push the hobby forward, only distracted by the racing events on the world stage. All the public remembers is who won, and I find it quite ironic that Charpu noticed it 1st (and never said a thing) and now Chad. Each the most famous pilot in FPV at the time it was expressed.
I think it’s time we take a step back from racing and think about what it’s doing to us as pilots and to our hobby as a whole. Is this the direction we wish to go? Are we being steered by those with money and only a desire to make more? I observe as young people watch their 1st FPV video (racing or not) and they are amazed. “How much?” or “How do I get into this?” The vendors and the industry will not suffer without racing, but our culture will with it. I see those people buy up RTF racing quads and give it their all, they give it their passion and they race for the win. They spend countless millions each year in the USA alone and they bust props every single weekend to the cheering delight of any company with a ABS plastic molding machine. The people enter this hobby because they see Chad and want to be him, because they see Charpu making money and becoming successful in something they love to do in only their free time. I can imagine that almost every vendor in the FPV game has been asked by every single little “racing team” and club in the nation for free gear and sponsorships because they race and want to become the next “winner”. I hate to break it to you, but the jokes on you guys, you are the new market. Not the innovators or even the winners. The innovators are speaking out and trying to tell you all something and some risk reputation and their paycheck to do it. I suggest you listen.
The buying power and numbers of the FPV pilot community is untold, we hold the keys to stopping this madness before it gets even more out of control. It’s time to rein it in and get back to basics. Racing has done its job in promoting FPV and drones in a more positive light to the public, but our culture has already moved past it, and it’s time to let the charlatans know. Now let’s move on and continue innovating, racing is a dead-end. It’s a dead end at a long trail of tears, failure, drama, let downs and busted props. If you are rich have no job and an inner drive to beat and say you’re better than your fellow man, then by all means, drone racing (as a sport) is for you! But I won’t look up to you, and I doubt anyone worth a darn in the FPV hobby will either, so enjoy the fame but understand it’s a fallacy cooked up by people with a desire to make money, nothing more.
Typically, the FPV hobby is made up of passionate, highly skilled and intelligent people. They are well versed in many subjects to be able to innovate in ways many people cannot. They seek challenges, they take their time, and they do it for personal reasons. What we are doing is shutting them out, in favor of the worst types of people. People with zero determination to learn this hobby and overcome its challenges and therefore will never find its intrinsic reward. All they want is a win, and the hobby as we knew it will die with the ushering of a “sport”. I propose, and challenge all FPV pilots, to stop entering races held by any organization. Go out and fly or race your buddies instead, I believe our point can be made to those wishing to profit from you.
We can all stop supporting all racing leagues and organizations by not racing in them, not spending our hard eared money and our valuable time in helping them succeed. You are all literally giving away your passion and value for their success. We can always race on any given weekend with our friends, there’s grassroots groups doing it every single day. If someone wants you to race, make them pay you. We do not need those leagues they need us. FPV racing, otherwise known to the public it’s sold to as “Drone Racing” will evolve and become something unrecognizable to the traditional FPV hobby. We simply do things for a different reason that means our goals; mission and means are all different. It’s time we make the distinction; it’s time we hold ourselves, our peers and our community to a higher standard more deserving of the passion and greatness that is the FPV hobby and everything that makes it so great and worthy of so much of our time and money. Let’s find, highlight and propagate what FPV is all about and stop wasting our time and energy for people who don’t get it and want nothing more than profit from us.

c5galaxy engineer
3rd March 2016, 07:51 PM
Okay.....so I am sub'ed if for no other reason then to see where the chips fall on this one.:p
Squishy you have a lot to say on this.....I am going to have to go in for a second read. There is quite a bit to digest in that post.

MadMonkey
3rd March 2016, 08:01 PM
Ehhh...

For every NASCAR or LeMans there's a group of buddies gathering at an autocross event or drag strip to just spend a few hours having fun together, and the latter is rarely interested in competing in the former.

But the big events and competitions do tend to drive innovation. Just like auto racing has resulted in huge improvements in technology for everyday cars and trucks, FPV racing technology will improve RC aircraft.

This is assuming it's handled well.

I don't have a lot of interest in "real" FPV racing, though I'd like to try it, but there are plenty out there who are into it and I don't have an issue with it. Obviously there are going to be teething problems with any new series or sport, but it'll work itself out in the end.

There have been multiple instances of the "old guard" complaining that younger pilots were "cheating" by entering the RC hobby when a new technology made things easier. The first I personally remember are the early ARF models, when everyone was afraid that there would be no more craftsmanship or scratch-built models. Then the advent of cheap electric power, then foamies. Then RTF foamies, then "drones", then RTF "drones".

How many of the people complaining now only started flying a few years ago when multirotors first became widely available?

If a person has no interest in doing repairs or building from scratch, I have literally zero issues with that. I've known many people who buy RTF planes, put them together, crash them, throw them away, and buy another. I don't judge them because they aren't enjoying the hobby "right".

Lab Monkey
3rd March 2016, 09:55 PM
Well said Squishy, I don't want to be the next " Charpu" or "Banni", I just enjoy chucking a Quad around a course (anything, trees, bushes Cones, whatever), if I've got someone to do that with, Great, It just puts a huge smile on my face doing it with or without the "Race", If I get it right, I'm grinning from ear to ear, When I get it wrong, I'm Falling out of my chair laughing hysterically, Either way, I usually spend that evening recounting the experience with like minded friends spilling beer out of the side of our stupid grin's.

kalikraven
3rd March 2016, 09:57 PM
I saw this most recently at the CFL FPV meet. The meet has changed and the Drone Racing crew would take it over if they could. I enjoyed the meets much more 3-4 years ago when drone racing wasnt at the events... Not to mention that they would like to use the entire 5.8Ghz band so they can practice.

Rhyno
3rd March 2016, 10:22 PM
If a person has no interest in doing repairs or building from scratch, I have literally zero issues with that. I've known many people who buy RTF planes, put them together, crash them, throw them away, and buy another. I don't judge them because they aren't enjoying the hobby "right".

Yeah, to add to this, the people that are in it only for money or fame won't last. They'll constantly be doing this for the wrong reasons and never have enough to make it. You simply cannot succeed in this hobby long term if you refuse to learn any of the fundamentals. Unfortunately, with the large cash prizes and numerous racing leagues and organizations cropping up everywhere, the wrong people get attracted to it. There are so many new people trying to get into this hobby because they watched 5 youtube racing videos and are now convinced that they can jump right in and compete. When you try to help them and guide them in the right direction (No, that 4S Alien F1-5 with RS2205's and 5045BN's would not make a good first quad) they ignore you and listen only to the people selling them the dream. A week later they'll be on the help forums crying their eyes out about being "almost done with this hobby" or "at my wits end trying to get this to work" because they can't tune a quad worth a damn or solder anything together properly.

And it's starting to wear down on me. I used to feel like you owed a debt to whatever forum you participated in and gained knowledge and experience from. You paid that debt by sticking around to help the next new genuine person with their struggle. The problem is that these people that are showing up aren't genuinely interested in any of it. They just want their brand spanking new quad to fly right out of the box and onto the racing line. The expectations these people have is just unreal. I'm starting to just not care about these new people's problems because for every guy you find who actually wants to learn it all there's a dozen trying to slap together whatever flavor-of-the-month consumer parts are popular to make themselves famous.

cowpoos
4th March 2016, 03:02 AM
Squishy...I think your post is gold..couple of points I personally don't agree with..I get your encompassing ideal...but....this is the start of something new, that everyone is hopping on the bandwagon of. You helped encourage it, to be fair. The raging bull is moving....controlling its direction and premise needs to be done now. or let it go and hang with your mates...doing what you have always done.

Whats important? Everyone has a different ideal!

Thank gawd.

tri fever
4th March 2016, 08:35 AM
Completely agree with KaliKraven. I witnessed the same thing. I still enjoyed myself because I got out to meet some old faces and fly some!

I'd Rather just hang out and enjoy chasing some friends flying planes/quads! Really not into making my hobby into a competition.

33db
4th March 2016, 09:19 AM
All "FPV racing" was to me is one way of possibly legitimizing FPV in the eyes of the public. After all, if the cattle see it on TV they are much less likely to get spooked while chewing their cud in the park.

Håvard Støre
4th March 2016, 10:56 AM
The soul of fpv is safe. Its us friends at the lab, in the parks in the mountains and in the fields. Organized racing will never become a big part of the real fpv community. We build, fly, hang out with friends and maybe attend a race event once or twice just to experience it. Because of the way we fpvers are many of us will get somewhat bored with the scene. We are basically geeks, not athletes or spectators.

SamFromCO
4th March 2016, 11:43 AM
Almost all "sports" have a hobby and a competition group. One is for the enjoyment of most. One is for people that like to compete. For me personally, I've always found that I don't particularly enjoy competing. It places my ability to perform above the pure enjoyment of what I'm doing. Funny thing is, I find that even though I'm not competing against others I'm always competing against myself and trying to improve. I don't think that one group is more or less legitimate than the other, just different.

Roboforcer X2000
4th March 2016, 12:10 PM
I don't see any reason to be upset about, everything evolves including hobbies. There was a time when racing cars was a hobby for like-minded people, now Formula-1 and other leagues rolls in millions, and there are still people that build and race their cars at a track just for fun. What's the fuss here with FPV racing? You want to have fun in a park- go and do it, you want money and fame- off you go. Don't want to join any leagues- don't do it, obviously no one is forcing anybody to do anything...

PDXDave
4th March 2016, 12:18 PM
Leave it to the guy with a fretsaw in one hand and a Guinness in the other to talk sense. Well said, Robo.

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 12:22 PM
+1 on that Robo. I am not sure there is enough reason to write a manifesto about its stupidity. It is just another branch of an interesting hobby with its own set of advantages and dis-advantages. What I am not sure about is why Squishy thought it necessary to let us know why he has such a strong opinion either way. He seems really upset with racing and the crowed it draws. I value opinions and their authors though even if they are not my own views. God knows I have my own......LOL I am not a racer nor do I want the fame from it but man I wish I could fly like those guys! Who doesn't wish that?

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 12:25 PM
Leave it to the guy with a fretsaw in one hand and a Guinness in the other to talk sense. Well said, Robo.

LMAO!!
Now pass me one of those Guinnesses you stingy bitch!

Roboforcer X2000
4th March 2016, 12:37 PM
Leave it to the guy with a fretsaw in one hand and a Guinness in the other to talk sense. Well said, Robo.
LOL, now yas making me look like a drunk irish in a pub talking about global warming...

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 12:46 PM
LOL, now yas making me look like a drunk irish in a pub talking about global warming...
I'm sorry but I just assumed you were. I just thought the pubs there had internet like the coffee shops here. I thought you were just another Irishman at the pub with his laptop.......Now I have to rethink what I think about you......;)

PDXDave
4th March 2016, 01:16 PM
LOL, now yas making me look like a drunk irish in a pub talking about global warming...

Nah...who brings a fretsaw to a pub? That would just be weird -- the Guinness is in your shop, right? ;)

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 01:32 PM
^Good point

33db
4th March 2016, 01:52 PM
Nah...who brings a fretsaw to a pub? That would just be weird -- the Guinness is in your shop, right? ;) Never been to London I take it..

PDXDave
4th March 2016, 02:00 PM
Never been to London I take it..

Sure have - great city. Lots of weirdness in pubs...but no fretsaws that I saw.

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 02:05 PM
Wait......There is beer in london?!?! Whaaaaaat?!?!

Håvard Støre
4th March 2016, 02:19 PM
LOL, now yas making me look like a drunk irish in a pub talking about global warming...
When in doubt I listen to the quad flying Leprechaun.

RussiaBear
4th March 2016, 02:55 PM
As someone new just picking the hobby up, I have to say it was fpv racing that peaked my interest into the world of fpv. I have always enjoyed anything RC as a hobby but never decided to go full into it. I watched a lot of videos of the actually flying / racing for awhile. But it wasn't until I saw the enthusiasm and excitement of someone building there own, that I decided this was a hobby I could really enjoy. I feel like for some the draw of making something from nothing, and flying it yourself for the first time with your friends will always be the main drive behind staying with it for so long. Just my opinion, I didn't even know there was much of a league to be honest :p (I'm from Canada, still not very big here) but it was some professionals videos that got my initial interest, and then seeing it as a hobby made me join. So everyone is different and comes from a different reason to join. All I wanted to say :)

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 03:11 PM
It is just opinions being thrown about here.....To each their own I say. We all enjoy and are drawn to this hobby for different reasons. For whatever reason, I am glad we all have a place to rant and rave about whatever here on the Lab.

Roboforcer X2000
4th March 2016, 03:21 PM
Amazing how threads go south very quickly:) But hey, we still on topic- if you're upset, go for a pint!

I'm sorry but I just assumed you were. I just thought the pubs there had internet like the coffee shops here. I thought you were just another Irishman at the pub with his laptop.......Now I have to rethink what I think about you......;)
No wifi or laptops in Irish (don't confuse with London, that's England, not Ireland) pubs, just beer, good live music and mighty craic!
P.S. Even when it sounds exactly like crack, it's not what you think:) http://www.ireland-fun-facts.com/craic.html

Nah...who brings a fretsaw to a pub? That would just be weird -- the Guinness is in your shop, right? ;)
I'd bring my fretsaw even to bed- she doesn't nag, no bitchin', no complaints about me spending money on RC and has no problem if I use other tools...
Still OT, but on the serious note- Guinness is not the same elsewhere than a small pub in Ireland and I'm a big fan of that "mother's milk". I seriously wanted to get an original keg & tap system that pubs are using but my evil financial adviser (loving and beloved wife) said no:(
Not to get wrong impression about me- I'm not an alkie and I don't drink as much as it might look like, I just enjoy tasting this particular liquid. ...a lot...:)

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 03:36 PM
Ohhhhh I have been to both Ireland and London and that is what I was eluding to.......there is no beer like an Irish beer in an Irish Pub (BTW they are just called "Pubs" in Ireland.....LOL)......even the Guinness taste like nothing I have ever been able to replicate. I think it was Ireland where I had my first and last "snake bite".......Oh boy did that go down easy and came up harrrrrd. Damn....its a wonder I remember anything from that night at all.....LOL! Honestly.....I think I have been to an Irish pub in every country I have visited but just the good ol "pubs" of Ireland were the best......that is if the locals were friendly to the "outsider"......LOL.

Quadski
4th March 2016, 08:50 PM
I love London . But what about freestyle ?

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 09:33 PM
I love London . But what about freestyle ?
Sure.....I have done London freestyle....(I'm guessing you mean without clothes)

RonSII
4th March 2016, 09:41 PM
^^ pics or it didn't happen ;)



on second thought.... we believe ya' no pics please...

c5galaxy engineer
4th March 2016, 09:47 PM
^^ pics or it didn't happen ;)



on second thought.... we believe ya' no pics please...
LMAO!!!

xjet
4th March 2016, 11:02 PM
How does this differ from every other sport that has a professional component?

Just because we have Tiger Woods chasing the mighty dollar doesn't detract from the fun that others might have playing a friendly round on the local golf course of a Sunday afternoon.

Just because we have people chasing big bucks in NASCAR racing doesn't mean that those who enjoy a drive at their local car-club event enjoy that any less.

When any sport develops a professional element it's generally good for that sport (boosts the numbers participating due to the publicity) and results in advances in the technology used by everyone.

Stop being a grumpy old man Squishy :-)

33db
4th March 2016, 11:34 PM
How does this differ from every other sport that has a professional component?

It doesn't differ, and as I stated earlier it may help to legitimize FPV in the eyes of the general animal.
The more coverage that's favorable, the better.

I personally have no interest in ritualized competition, but I can see how this may have a positive impact on the perception of multirotors and FPV.

RonSII
5th March 2016, 01:05 AM
That's exactly how I see it 33db... the more flavors of fpv we have the better, simple as that.

lbz34
5th March 2016, 03:35 AM
I see it first hand, Nytfury and myself started a year and a half ago, we have had a great time so far but I have stepped back a bit from the hustle of being the best and gotten back to our local club racing where I enjoy seeing the new guys battle it out and enjoy the sport for what it is. Nytfury on the other hand is still hard at it training all the time giving it everything he has to keep that edge and skill he has earned thus far.

Quadski
6th March 2016, 06:45 PM
Sure.....I have done London freestyle....(I'm guessing you mean without clothes)

Haha yea that's exactly what I do when I freestyle . It's so exhilarating to FPV naked .

Quadski
6th March 2016, 06:47 PM
That's exactly how I see it 33db... the more flavors of fpv we have the better, simple as that.

Oi ronski is that u blud? Wagwan

squishy
8th March 2016, 03:50 AM
I see it first hand

Nice to know I'm not the only one around here..

theshadow
8th March 2016, 02:27 PM
Typically we choose to escape through our hobbies instead of creating more stress and anxiety in our lives. Is this a sport or a hobby, make up your mind.


I don't post here much (serial lurker) but I had to log in to say two things -

1. Wow, you totally nailed it.
2. Thanks for bringing this up. It might be more imortant than people realize.

I'm looking at this from a slightly mpdifferent angle than I suspect most people here might be.

My background is actually in grassroots level competitive Motorsports. I spent roughly 10 years competing in autocross events, track days, time attack, drifting and karting before I fled that hobby in favour of FPV for precisely many of the reasons you just articulated.

The short version is this - the more competitive things get the less fun they become.

The longer version is almost plain ugly.

I'm not saying that competition can't be fun or rewarding. You improve your skills, test your limits, experience thrills you'll remember your whole life and meet lots of great people. There's a serious catch 22 though - the more serious things get the uglier they become, and it can all turn ugly really fast.

It it always starts out well. The nerves of your first race. The satisfaction of a good run. The first taste of success. It's always amazing in the beginning. As you move from being a novice to a regular competitor though things start to change.

The shift is slow at first. A few tricks, a few tactics. A few people grow egos and agendas. Soon enough politics becomes a thing. Groups become factions. Meanwhile you're hitting upgrade fever, trying to improve your equipment as best you can in order to keep up with the pack. Getting better equipment to keep competitive or gain an edge soon becomes needing the best in order to be the best. That gets really expensive really fast but you absolutely NEED to have A,B,C,D and X, Y and Z. Always the best and always more of it. When you're out to win you'll do whatever it takes - you're never happy unless you're on top or at least within striking distance and therefore naturally nothing less than the best will do.

The thing is that everybody's thinking the same way - everybody's upgrading to the best stuff. Regulations inevitably become increasingly important in order to keep up with progress and/or balance things out 'fairly', which adds a whole other layer of complexity. Pretty soon there's a whole lot of money being thrown around and a whole lot of people have a lot invested in the outcome of things both emotionally and financially so everything's an argument. People begin to feel entitled. Organizers are pressured and nitpick end to the nth degree. Eventually it becomes a huge wallet race and camps of 'haves' and 'have nots' appear. Everybody's arguing tooth and nail over everything and nobody's happy.

Sooner or later the 'have nots' give up or get priced out of the action and so on and so forth until the only a few 'haves' are left standing, by which time the whole series or scene either fragments (at which point the cycle begins anew in a new bubble) or everything completely collapses or disappears altogether.

Ultimately the fun is long gone, so is your bank account and all that's left are the bittersweet memories.

It's a trajectory I experienced first hand at least three or four times in Motorsports before I packed up and moved 100% into FPV. I love this hobby to bits and for me it's always going to stay that way - as a hobby, just for fun.


TL;DR

Things are pretty amazing right now but I can see a lot of familiar 'competitiveness trajectory' warning signs emerging in the FPV racing game these days and that worries me a bit. Drone Nationals was truly epic (yay live web stream!) but in my opinion FPV racing might have already peaked with the early Airgonay videos - a time where it was exciting, interesting, amazing and fast and fun but never too serious.

I hope we don't enter a period of high drama during which things lose that original essence but I guess even if we do I'll be in the park doing my flying and crashing thing.

Peace!

#fpvsoulpilot

33db
8th March 2016, 04:10 PM
Then don't compete, I still can't get my head around adults participating in ritualized competition (but I don't bitch about it, it creates jobs), just see it for what it is, a commercial venture, all ritualized competitions are commercial ventures.
How can any adult not understand that?

Save the hippy bullshit for your drum circle and get the fact that "drone racing" gives a legitimate commercial application of FPV into your mind, therefore ENCOURAGE it.

All you guys are doing is hating on something you don't agree with in your "hobby", that's the equivalent of saying "I don't like the way that guy wears his shirt", and has about as much objective validity.

wicked1
8th March 2016, 04:46 PM
I haven't read this entire thread, because I'm not good enough to even consider racing..

BUT, about the OP's rant... He has just described the problem with every single good thing that has ever happened in the world.

A small group of smart or at least very dedicated people start it. It gains popularity... Then, the common people catch on, and it's over..
Lets see... I thought of a bunch of examples, but this probably isn't the place to complain about society :). But a big example would be the internet in general. I had a BBS back in the 80's, which got on Fido and usenet and early early networks. Then on to the first web pages and just amazing good free information that lasted through the 90's. But then it became commercialized and was ruined. The good non commercial informational sites that even Google used to steward (old newsgroup info, etc) have completely disappeared. The current internet is still better than nothing.. But man.. those early days were good.

And well, a nicer way to put it is that the originators put their hearts and souls in to it.. They do it for free and for all of their time, generally. Once it gets popular, people who only care about money get involved.

Håvard Støre
8th March 2016, 05:34 PM
33db: Agree... If I was a passionate volunteer helping out to organize racing locally, I would be outraged reading this thread. How dare those ignorant bastards. Self centered pricks! etc.

I am a very self centered hobbyist myself, who fly alone or with a friend or two. Thats what floats my boat. If racing floats someone else's boat that is a good thing.

Flyswamper
8th March 2016, 05:59 PM
which got on Fido and usenet

Fidonet! I'd almost forgotten that I had a "node" on the fidonet(work) long ago... :)


Oh... and on topic.... If I re-read the original post here I could probably find several things/sentiments I agree with. As it is, however, I just can't seem to find a reason to care whether or not others are spending their time organizing/participating/promoting/whatever aspects of the RC world in a way that I disagree with. Live and let live..... and don't create stress that doesn't need to be there!

PDXDave
8th March 2016, 06:00 PM
33db: Agree... If I was a passionate volunteer helping out to organize racing locally, I would be outraged reading this thread. How dare those ignorant bastards. Self centered pricks! etc.

I am a very self centered hobbyist myself, who fly alone or with a friend or two. Thats what floats my boat. If racing floats someone else's boat that is a good thing.

Totally agree, Harvard. I've never been even vaguely interested in racing. Even back to my earliest LOS days in the late '70s this has largely been a solitary thing for me, or maybe with a couple of friends. But who am I to tell people they're taking part in the hobby wrong if it gives them what they want and need just because they're going about it differently than I do? If someone takes up racing then comes to feel like some of the magic is drained from the experience by the overly commercialized racing scene that has exploded in the last year, they're free to stop racing (and I hope no one feels pressured to keep racing when they don't want to). But come on...where would anyone get the temerity to think they have the moral authority to speak for everyone in the hobby and pass judgement on who's doing it right and who's doing it wrong? That's hubris taken to the extreme. What ever happened to finding your niche, enjoying it, and letting others do the same?

33db
8th March 2016, 06:47 PM
33db: Agree... If I was a passionate volunteer helping out to organize racing locally, I would be outraged reading this thread. How dare those ignorant bastards. Self centered pricks! etc.

I am a very self centered hobbyist myself, who fly alone or with a friend or two. Thats what floats my boat. If racing floats someone else's boat that is a good thing.

lulz... "passionate volunteer" if you were referring to me I think you meant "opinionated asshole".

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that likes flying alone.

Håvard Støre
8th March 2016, 08:25 PM
lulz... "passionate volunteer" if you were referring to me I think you meant "opinionated asshole".

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that likes flying alone.
No, I referred to you as in I agreed in your previous post.

Don't think there are any passionate volunteers posting in this thread yet. If there were they would be pissed.

Beachflyer
8th March 2016, 09:21 PM
Another opinion(opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one).
I'm personally an extremely competitive person. But havn't felt that spirit for mini flying.
Guess I havn't been hooked!? Or maybe because I'm currently competing in Competitive BBQ.

I personally just enjoy going out and flying (or now) ground pounding just for the sheer enjoyment I receive from it.
However, because of my competitive nature I fully understand the people that "race". If that bug bit me I'd be knee deep in it as well.

One note before my exit statement. I named my ground pounder the "shigging wagon". I'll let y'all Google that.

Live life, have fun, don't ever take yourself too serious(because nobody else does), and if you want to race then more power to you.

djsomers
8th March 2016, 09:30 PM
It's all good...

I admire the pioneers who do something really new and innovative...

I also appreciate the benefits to creating a mass market.... I can buy stuff to try that I would never be able to develop either because of time or money or both.

Lets welcome everyone regardless of the niche... pioneer or noob. Loner or competitor. Pauper or Prince.

It's all good.

c5galaxy engineer
8th March 2016, 11:13 PM
Totally agree, Harvard. I've never been even vaguely interested in racing. Even back to my earliest LOS days in the late '70s this has largely been a solitary thing for me, or maybe with a couple of friends. But who am I to tell people they're taking part in the hobby wrong if it gives them what they want and need just because they're going about it differently than I do? If someone takes up racing then comes to feel like some of the magic is drained from the experience by the overly commercialized racing scene that has exploded in the last year, they're free to stop racing (and I hope no one feels pressured to keep racing when they don't want to). But come on...where would anyone get the temerity to think they have the moral authority to speak for everyone in the hobby and pass judgement on who's doing it right and who's doing it wrong? That's hubris taken to the extreme. What ever happened to finding your niche, enjoying it, and letting others do the same?



That is well said
+1,000,000

schugabe
9th March 2016, 04:02 AM
Basically I have no problems if some people want to race for money. Every activity that attracts attention is interesting for marketing purposes and will be used. The same happened with computer games. Not too long ago it was a "nerd activity" and now we have big tournaments that are broadcasted live with commentators and everything (just like classic sport coverage).
But at the same time nobody should be surprised when the grassroots spirit is replaced with product placements and spectacular media coverage. And the amount of drama will most likely also rise.

Until now fpv was a play field for technically interested and I think that this forum really represents the spirit of sharing this experience with others. I hope that the competitive nature (and money) of racing does not influence how we all approach this hobby: Many shared their ideas and builds and this is what really helped the hobby to grow. But if people start to hold back their ideas/build to have an advantage in racing it would start to split the community. And this would suck.

33db
9th March 2016, 10:26 AM
Basically I have no problems if some people want to race for money. Every activity that attracts attention is interesting for marketing purposes and will be used. The same happened with computer games. Not too long ago it was a "nerd activity" and now we have big tournaments that are broadcasted live with commentators and everything (just like classic sport coverage).
But at the same time nobody should be surprised when the grassroots spirit is replaced with product placements and spectacular media coverage. And the amount of drama will most likely also rise.

Until now fpv was a play field for technically interested and I think that this forum really represents the spirit of sharing this experience with others. I hope that the competitive nature (and money) of racing does not influence how we all approach this hobby: Many shared their ideas and builds and this is what really helped the hobby to grow. But if people start to hold back their ideas/build to have an advantage in racing it would start to split the community. And this would suck.

I watched a International final for Battlefield 4, it was pretty well produced, looks like a lot of money got put into it.

I still remember Thresh winning Carmack's Ferrari, he went on to win 100K a year in the late 90's, and it looks like today there's way more money involved.

Now do that with multirotor racing, and gain World wide acceptance of FPV.

c5galaxy engineer
9th March 2016, 10:53 AM
Hell.......I remember back when they had PacMan and Missile Command competitions. ...........I do not recall anyone writing a manifesto about it though......lol

RonSII
9th March 2016, 11:01 AM
Yeah, it was the same when pong came out ;)

c5galaxy engineer
9th March 2016, 11:16 AM
Yeah, it was the same when pong came out ;)
bip.............bip beep...............bip bip......beep....................beep beep........bip....beep.

IBCrazy
9th March 2016, 11:37 AM
I race because I love it... even though when it comes to miniQuads, I am a mediocre pilot at best. Give me a unicycle and as soon as I figure out how to ride it, I'm ready to race it. Heck, I'll race a refrigerator if you put a motor and wheels on it! This is why I'm happy to see fixed wing making a comeback. I have been racing fixed wing for years. Sometimes I win, other times I lose.

What I find amazing is that fixed wing seems to have its act together. There aren't millions of dollars thrown at fixed wing. None of us are impressed with the latest motor or multibladed props. We seldom (if ever) use flight controllers and there is no war about who has the best software. There is a HUGE discrepancy between airframes and every plane flies different and has a different advantage unlike quads where it is all about weight and tune. There are many varieties of airplanes, each catering to a different type of flying. And the greatest part - the developers of fixed wing are small businesses that work together, not fight... well... most of us anyway.

We also know what we're doing. We've been flying FPV for a long time for the fun of it, not the fame. At CFL FPV, the announcer was shocked how quickly the fixed wing races assembled and went. We actually ended early. NEFPV and COFPV have been racing for years and even have spec racing classes that have been going since before the mini Quad was invented. Most pilots that don't finish a race fall out due to a burned up ESC, motor, or battery and not because the course is too hard. In fixed wing, it is about the thrill of the race, not the fame of the win.

-Alex

Quadski
9th March 2016, 11:50 PM
I race because I love it... even though when it comes to miniQuads, I am a mediocre pilot at best. Give me a unicycle and as soon as I figure out how to ride it, I'm ready to race it. Heck, I'll race a refrigerator if you put a motor and wheels on it! This is why I'm happy to see fixed wing making a comeback. I have been racing fixed wing for years. Sometimes I win, other times I lose.

What I find amazing is that fixed wing seems to have its act together. There aren't millions of dollars thrown at fixed wing. None of us are impressed with the latest motor or multibladed props. We seldom (if ever) use flight controllers and there is no war about who has the best software. There is a HUGE discrepancy between airframes and every plane flies different and has a different advantage unlike quads where it is all about weight and tune. There are many varieties of airplanes, each catering to a different type of flying. And the greatest part - the developers of fixed wing are small businesses that work together, not fight... well... most of us anyway.

We also know what we're doing. We've been flying FPV for a long time for the fun of it, not the fame. At CFL FPV, the announcer was shocked how quickly the fixed wing races assembled and went. We actually ended early. NEFPV and COFPV have been racing for years and even have spec racing classes that have been going since before the mini Quad was invented. Most pilots that don't finish a race fall out due to a burned up ESC, motor, or battery and not because the course is too hard. In fixed wing, it is about the thrill of the race, not the fame of the win.

-Alex

You nailed it Crazy. Growing up around motorsports as a kid & coming from a motocross/supercross racing background I realize it is a rich mans hobby but the thought of fame or money was never what pushed me. It was the rush of adrenaline and fun in driving against/wrecking into my friends & arch nemesis racer x that drove me to race for 20 years of my life since the age of 4 years old. Not once did I ever make money or really any sort of fame from racing motorcycles (I mean I was on ESPN one time). It was all about the love of the smell of high octane racing fuel and the buzz of the engines whizzing by at 15,000RPM on the track. Yea I've got plenty of first and second or even a few third place trophies on my shelf but none of them were ever wins fueled by the thought of fame or fortune. Hell I never even thought I would win anything i was just having fun with the old man trying to show off and make him proud. It was mostly luck and practice & having the best mechanic in the world My Dad.

There truly is nothing like a packed racetrack bustling with life and people who are super passionate about the same thing. When people gather like that there can be drama but there is always drama in everything now. With everyone interconnected online like we are here rumors spread like wildfire. But by putting all those people together good things will come forth in the form of technological advancement and inventions/techniques no-one has thought of yet.

If you don't like competition or racing then its not for you which is strange considering (the op) Squishy works for one of the larger racing organizations. But Squishy man don't go around being such a Debbie Downer. I mean yea i get it those filthy rich oil barons in dubai are blowing a few mil on a over-hyped race. But when has Dubai not done that to anything they get their greedy hands on (their freaking cops have a Mclaren)? Its just what they do. I really think they were pretty fair and open to let anybody submit a race qualifying video and then they fly you to Dubai if you qualify! that's insane. Me and my pop used to spend thousands of dollars a weekend driving 12 hours to the tracks and racing my $9000 dirt bike to make absolutely no money whatsoever. Not once did any racetrack or sponsor ever offer to pay for our flight or hotel. In fact I almost sense a slight bit of jealousy in your post about how much money is being blown in these races. Well newsflash there are rich people out there with money to blow. So like montell jordan said "throw yo hands up Its friday night and this is how we dooooo it".

If you cant beat em join em & negativity is the last thing any sport or hobby needs. We should be combining forces and forming like voltron to celebrate the fact that things are taking off like they are now. We should be showing the ignorant and scared public/world that what we do is a true art-form & wholesome past-time. The world needs/wants to see where the future will take us and there is no harm in wanting to have a bit of friendly racing along the way.

- - - Updated - - -

33db
9th March 2016, 11:57 PM
Hell.......I remember back when they had PacMan and Missile Command competitions. ...........I do not recall anyone writing a manifesto about it though......lol

Defender or GTFO.

Quadski
10th March 2016, 12:08 AM
I haven't read this entire thread, because I'm not good enough to even consider racing..

BUT, about the OP's rant... He has just described the problem with every single good thing that has ever happened in the world.

A small group of smart or at least very dedicated people start it. It gains popularity... Then, the common people catch on, and it's over..
Lets see... I thought of a bunch of examples, but this probably isn't the place to complain about society :). But a big example would be the internet in general. I had a BBS back in the 80's, which got on Fido and usenet and early early networks. Then on to the first web pages and just amazing good free information that lasted through the 90's. But then it became commercialized and was ruined. The good non commercial informational sites that even Google used to steward (old newsgroup info, etc) have completely disappeared. The current internet is still better than nothing.. But man.. those early days were good.

And well, a nicer way to put it is that the originators put their hearts and souls in to it.. They do it for free and for all of their time, generally. Once it gets popular, people who only care about money get involved.

I remember when the internet was called compuserve(or AOL for you young scrubs) was basically one "webpage" kinda like fpvlab (*there was no .com or even adress bar) And it had like 10 pages with about 8 sub folders in each category ie: Homework /School -- News -- Jokes-- Games -- email.. .. Ahh man i used to get blazing fast downloads when i upgraded from 15kbps upto 56kbps. Man i could download a whole 5 megabytes in two days . it was so fast!

That was the whole entire internet.

--- Sent from my compuserve email circa 1991

You've got Mail!

- - - Updated - - -

c5galaxy engineer
10th March 2016, 12:21 AM
^^LMAO.......now thats funny!

RonSII
10th March 2016, 12:40 AM
I remember when the internet was called compuserve(or AOL for you young scrubs) was basically one "webpage" kinda like fpvlab (*there was no .com or even adress bar) And it had like 10 pages with about 8 sub folders in each category ie: Homework /School -- News -- Jokes-- Games -- email.. .. Ahh man i used to get blazing fast downloads when i upgraded from 15kbps upto 56kbps. Man i could download a whole 5 megabytes in two days . it was so fast!

That was the whole entire internet.

--- Sent from my compuserve email circa 1991

You've got Mail!

- - - Updated - - -

Man... you had it lucky at 14.4 all we used to get was 1200... if we were lucky ;) and people on compuserve and aol were on fake internet anyways for quite a while it was mostly ' local content' heh heh we always snuck in though my buddies phone bank on a half t1, ahhh the good old days :)

c5galaxy engineer
10th March 2016, 12:43 AM
I didnt start "geeking" on the computer and internet stuff until it was well established in 1995. I got my first computer and discovered on line porn......ahhhhh the good ol days. Not much has changed for me really......LOL!

RonSII
10th March 2016, 12:45 AM
LOL!!! yep, that's what I tell people the internet is good for.... games and ... well you know ;)

Quadski
10th March 2016, 12:49 AM
^^LMAO.......now thats funny!

Thanks! Hey did you really work on the C5 GAL?!!


Man... you had it lucky at 14.4 all we used to get was 1200... if we were lucky ;) and people on compuserve and aol were on fake internet anyways for quite a while it was mostly ' local content' heh heh we always snuck in though my buddies phone bank on a half t1, ahhh the good old days :)

LOL 1200kbps would take a whole ten minuets to refresh this page and see my reply!

c5galaxy engineer
10th March 2016, 12:49 AM
Yea but porn has become so commercialized these days......thanks to the internet.:rolleyes:

c5galaxy engineer
10th March 2016, 12:51 AM
Much like FPV...........Wait......I didnt mean to bring this thread back on track.......oops

RonSII
10th March 2016, 12:53 AM
Yeah, back then it was quicker to get a box of floppies and take em' with ya'.



EDIT: yeah, I got a bad habit about tracking off course ;) in threads and aircraft.... in other news I see Sentry broke the internet again ;)

c5galaxy engineer
10th March 2016, 12:54 AM
Thanks! Hey did you really work on the C5 GAL?!!
Oh yea....I was a crew chief and then a Flight Engineer at Dover AFB then an went to Travis AFB in Cali and finnished my career there as an instructor and Flight Safety guy. I loved flying that plane!!

Quadski
10th March 2016, 01:03 AM
Wow I am impressed. You may be related to my grandfather J. Hays he worked at NASA on Apollo 8. But to keep the thread on track FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU RACING:mad:

c5galaxy engineer
10th March 2016, 01:06 AM
Wow I am impressed. You may be related to my grandfather J. Hays he worked at NASA on Apollo 8. But to keep the thread on track FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU RACING:mad:
LMAO! Way to keep it on track

Not that I am aware of but who knows.......its been said the us Hayses are a bit like cockroaches.

Flyswamper
10th March 2016, 01:54 AM
<tape <floppy="" disks....
Writing your code and saving it to punch cards! Oh what joy... not!
</tape>

Channel 1
10th March 2016, 07:52 AM
I remember when the internet was called compuserve(or AOL for you young scrubs) was basically one "webpage" kinda like fpvlab.

AOL ruined CompuServe by trying to Internet it which didn't work well with a 56K dialup modem. Then there where BBS's and toll by-pass which I was a part of, I remember my home in Dania having 4 residential phone lines so BBS's in N Miami could relay through my system to Pompano toll free and Pompano could relay to N Miami toll free using a store and forward and from there through another BBS system to Boca and on and on up and down the state. Southern Bell didn't appreciate it much, but since we weren't creating any tariff violations they couldn't do anything about it.

I actually had an old SB beanie squeezer working a trouble on one of my lines tell me SB security was going to be investigating me because of the number of lines I had installed, I told the guy if security harassed me I would dial into some of their switches and shut SB's South East Florida's LATA down, that shut him up real fast. ;-)

Wayne
CompuServe 72720,141

wicked1
10th March 2016, 10:19 AM
Man... you had it lucky at 14.4 all we used to get was 1200...

If we're all flexing our geek muscles here, I started w/ 300bps on an 8086..
And before the internet finally got popular in the early 90's I was up to 6 phone lines on my BBS... at my parents house :) I had to do lots of chores to pay for the phone lines.. BBS brought me in a little cash from donations or people paying me off to access the 'warez section', but not enough to pay for all the phone lines.

Man, I hope I'm not the grandpa in this crowd! heh....

wicked1
10th March 2016, 10:30 AM
<tape <floppy="" disks....
Writing your code and saving it to punch cards! Oh what joy... not!
</tape>

Rotational media ruined programming..:D It was an awesome small society of noisy mechanical pioneers and the masses of magnetism took all the fun out of it.

I've still got a stack of punch cards.. and a hard drive that's as big as a table. and an 8" floppy drive.. I call it my computer museum, but my wife calls it trash.

Alright, I am putting myself in time out so maybe the thread can get back on track...
see what happens when you mention the old days of computing in this crowd.....

33db
10th March 2016, 10:36 AM
I used the terminal in my junior high school to connect to a mainframe at a local college, no screen, it printed everything out.
Wasn't even the Internet, just a MAN.

First time I got banned from a network too :cool: for excessive paper use.

The next time I used a computer it was in the IRC and Winnuke days.

djsomers
10th March 2016, 11:10 AM
I paid $100 for the very first handheld calculator that would do square roots! TR-10 I believe.

Even better, I still have my slide rules and I know how to use an abacus! Ha gotcha!

squishy
11th March 2016, 05:47 PM
After today, I will work to rewrite this with the added wisdom I have gained since gathering feedback. My position has not changed, but I am more able, much more able to communicate it, than when I wrote this. Bare with me.

Channel 1
11th March 2016, 06:13 PM
The buying power and numbers of the FPV pilot community is untold,

It is also limited and waning as the founders age out and that is one of the reasons the market is pushing FPV racing, which is good as the more mainstream FPV becomes, the more powerful the voice it will have against draconian regulations.

I find it ironic you have joined the Red Nosed Balsa Flyers Club, when it comes to change of the as-is.

Wayne

Flyswamper
11th March 2016, 06:43 PM
It is also limited and waning as the founders age out and that is one of the reasons the market is pushing FPV racing, which is good as the more mainstream FPV becomes, the more powerful the voice it will have against draconian regulations.

I find it ironic you have joined the Red Nosed Balsa Flyers Club, when it comes to change of the as-is.

Wayne

Nicely put...

squishy
11th March 2016, 06:56 PM
I find it ironic you have joined the Red Nosed Balsa Flyers Club, when it comes to change of the as-is.

Wayne

That's hardly it at all, I'm on the side of the "hobby", and trying to keep a imaginary "sport" that is being forcefully conceived for profit, from stealing the hobby's best values, culture and attributes. Stopping progression of the hobby, would be doing the opposite.


I watched the Dubai race today and thought to myself, with all the money in the world, is it still an epic failure and an embarrassment to the hobby it's associated with. They learned nothing from the last year of large racing events and suffer the same pains over and over.

drone racing is not a spectator sport, never will be..

drone racing is an experience, and you are the market. You are the customer paying for that experience while those who conceived this show profit behind the scenes.....

The ironic part that you speak of, is that I once supported and fueled it, and fraught with balsa flyers clubs (old AMA fuddy duddies) to make it happen. Each generation has to fight it's own battles. If you have seen my more progressive and liberal side in the past, welcome to seeing my conservative side as well, but I also doubt your idea of me was ever true to begin with based on your treatment of me on this forum over the years, in fact I don't know why I reply to you. This is not a philosophical discussion about whether or not to progress/change the hobby, its about how to progress and the nuances of that progression to retain the culture and the best parts and make it better. Right now, I see a S^$T show.

Please do not characterize me as anything that I have not characterize myself as already. I wish I was in Dubai, I wish I was hired to help, I wish I could be there shaking hands and hanging with all the peeps, and if presented with racing as a sub genre to the FPV hobby, and as fun, I would surely race, fixed wing and multirotor. But I have yet to find a race I wanted to be in, one that best represented my hobby and myself, other than the US Nationals (which I helped shape instead of participate)...a known experiment and damn good time from grass roots players that will never be grassroots again..

There's a hobby here and there is a sport living in the minds of some...one is very real, worthy and rewarding...the other, fictitious and stressful and drama and divisive...one brings people together, the other brings them apart.

I hope the very ironic fact you misinterpreted, adds weight to my message, and is not perverted by people like you to mean something different...I took the risk knowingly when I wrote it, but I stand tall next to it, and if you need me to explain it more I will. I am not being a conservative here, I am actually being more progressive than you are able to see..

Sorry for my tone...but I'm best served raw...have a good Friday Wayne, and get some air time dude, we all need to remember why we enjoy the "hobby", and retain it's freedom to be itself.

33db
11th March 2016, 08:57 PM
Some enterprising person could set up "drone tours".

Imagine VR goggles for the customers seated somewhat like a theater, high quality cameras and video links tx to a rx that feeds the video to the VR goggles.

Use a large wing, or depending on the tour a largish multirotor.

Imagine cruising along the river or the Grand Canyon, or Hawaii, over the treetops in the Amazon, etc.

For smaller areas a multirotor could cruise over stop, and pan around looking at animals, etc.

I think most tourist would be happy with the show as they neither want to pay for, or fly in a real helicopter.

Would be relatively inexpensive to invest in.

MadMonkey
11th March 2016, 10:50 PM
That's actually a great idea...

DustyVisor
12th March 2016, 12:31 AM
Sorry for my tone...but I'm best served raw...have a good Friday Wayne, and get some air time dude, we all need to remember why we enjoy the "hobby", and retain it's freedom to be itself.
Chill out dude. Like you said, it's a hobby.

RonSII
12th March 2016, 12:34 AM
^^ Yes :) but remember it's 'his' hobby and how could someone else use it like they want ;)

33db
12th March 2016, 12:43 AM
That's actually a great idea...

I would love to do it, think of it as "real time imax" as these VR goggles are getting cheaper and better, pan n tilt cameras etc.

Now if someone implements my idea, you have to hire me, I would love to do anything if it meant working with drones.

c5galaxy engineer
12th March 2016, 12:50 AM
I have actually thought of it a while ago but I could only imagine the hoops one would have to jump through. I live in a beautiful N.E. corner of Oregon and could easily take a theater full of tourist up to the top of some awesome mountain peaks. It would be cool but a pita.

PDXDave
12th March 2016, 01:28 AM
I did a similar thing (on a very small scale) but with a different audience a couple years back. I'd been volunteering with a group called "No One Dies Alone" sitting vigil with people in the last hours of life, and through that met some local hospice people who dealt with wheelchair bound terminally ill kids. When I told them about this hobby they thought the kids would love it because they'd been trapped inside bodies that had "betrayed them" (their term) and dreamt of just being able to walk or run -- being able to fly was a whole other level. We did a trial run with three kids and it went great but we haven't been able to put it together since for a variety of reasons. I'm talking with a different group about trying a related program this summer. People might want to give it a try in other areas and see how it goes.

33db
12th March 2016, 09:02 AM
I did a similar thing (on a very small scale) but with a different audience a couple years back. I'd been volunteering with a group called "No One Dies Alone" sitting vigil with people in the last hours of life, and through that met some local hospice people who dealt with wheelchair bound terminally ill kids. When I told them about this hobby they thought the kids would love it because they'd been trapped inside bodies that had "betrayed them" (their term) and dreamt of just being able to walk or run -- being able to fly was a whole other level. We did a trial run with three kids and it went great but we haven't been able to put it together since for a variety of reasons. I'm talking with a different group about trying a related program this summer. People might want to give it a try in other areas and see how it goes.

That's a story that legislators should see.

- - - Updated - - -


I have actually thought of it a while ago but I could only imagine the hoops one would have to jump through. I live in a beautiful N.E. corner of Oregon and could easily take a theater full of tourist up to the top of some awesome mountain peaks. It would be cool but a pita.

Sounds like you talked yourself out of it, anything business related is a PITA, especially when dealing with the public.

I don't think the tech implementation would be very difficult and you could use waypoint autopilot for most of it.
Add some narration, etc, I think it would work best as a way to closely view Nature without the danger... Like an active volcano. ;)

Beachflyer
12th March 2016, 09:10 AM
Some enterprising person could set up "drone tours".

Imagine VR goggles for the customers seated somewhat like a theater, high quality cameras and video links tx to a rx that feeds the video to the VR goggles.

Use a large wing, or depending on the tour a largish multirotor.

Imagine cruising along the river or the Grand Canyon, or Hawaii, over the treetops in the Amazon, etc.

For smaller areas a multirotor could cruise over stop, and pan around looking at animals, etc.

I think most tourist would be happy with the show as they neither want to pay for, or fly in a real helicopter.

Would be relatively inexpensive to invest in.

👍👍👍🏞🌈🌲🐅🎥

c5galaxy engineer
12th March 2016, 09:59 AM
That's a story that legislators should see.

- - - Updated - - -



Sounds like you talked yourself out of it, anything business related is a PITA, especially when dealing with the public.

I don't think the tech implementation would be very difficult and you could use waypoint autopilot for most of it.
Add some narration, etc, I think it would work best as a way to closely view Nature without the danger... Like an active volcano. ;)
Well I am retired and really have grown an adversion to anything resembling "work" sooooooo......yea.......:p
And as far as the active volcano........well......PDXDave, FPVflyer and myself did that to......just sayin:cool:

https://vimeo.com/65503201

CongoSavanne
12th March 2016, 10:17 AM
I was living up there when it erupted (the big one) I remember driving as close as they would let us to watch subsequent eruptions.
The area has recovered pretty fast.

squishy
12th March 2016, 01:16 PM
I did a similar thing (on a very small scale) but with a different audience a couple years back. I'd been volunteering with a group called "No One Dies Alone" sitting vigil with people in the last hours of life, and through that met some local hospice people who dealt with wheelchair bound terminally ill kids. When I told them about this hobby they thought the kids would love it because they'd been trapped inside bodies that had "betrayed them" (their term) and dreamt of just being able to walk or run -- being able to fly was a whole other level. We did a trial run with three kids and it went great but we haven't been able to put it together since for a variety of reasons. I'm talking with a different group about trying a related program this summer. People might want to give it a try in other areas and see how it goes.

high 5 dave, much respect.
THAT IS THE FPV I LOVE

We are in the business of immersive "flight" (something men have dreamt of since they could view the birds above them), let's share it with mankind instead of using it to race each other and hoping people care or want to watch..

schugabe
12th March 2016, 06:11 PM
I watched the Dubai race today and thought to myself, with all the money in the world, is it still an epic failure and an embarrassment to the hobby it's associated with. They learned nothing from the last year of large racing events and suffer the same pains over and over.

drone racing is not a spectator sport, never will be..


I also watched the stream: "too much" and "full try hard mode" describe my feelings for the event. Sure it's great to fly at night with 4 billion moving head lights but if you don't know who is leading in the race it's pretty boring to watch. And if after 2 laps only two quads are flying it even gets less interesting to watch.

To be fair: The final run was more fun to watch. I don't think that the pilots did anything wrong but the event/stream organization did not make a good job in presenting the race in an interesting way.

33db
12th March 2016, 08:45 PM
You mean this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcBaYAmRoXc

It appears to me Dubai is embracing drones, quite a contrast to the American exceptionalism we have here.
Go to Google and put in dubai drones (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=Dubai+drone+race&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#channel=fs&tbm=vid&q=dubai+drones) and look at all the stuff.

By the way that race really made what we had here look pathetic, I say kudos to Dubai for welcoming the tech.

squishy
12th March 2016, 10:50 PM
To be fair: The final run was more fun to watch. I don't think that the pilots did anything wrong but the event/stream organization did not make a good job in presenting the race in an interesting way.

Please see my OP then...I explained why..

squishy
12th March 2016, 11:09 PM
I went to a downhill skateboarding outlaw race today, complete with pro riders, vendors, manufacturers and their large vehicles...their sport of racing has existed for about 30 years...there was a 10$ buy in $100 purse and hot dogs...

Why would a well established sport with a long history and even public funds building skateparks across town, head up to the hills and trespass, cut locks and have a race?

I will tell you because I asked them...

"To keep the stoke alive..."


I think we could learn a thing or two from them...


And yes of course I chased them with my mini and handed over footage, lol

711267112771128

c5galaxy engineer
12th March 2016, 11:49 PM
I went to a downhill skateboarding outlaw race today, complete with pro riders, vendors, manufacturers and their large vehicles...their sport of racing has existed for about 30 years...there was a 10$ buy in $100 purse and hot dogs...

Why would a well established sport with a long history and even public funds building skateparks across town, head up to the hills and trespass, cut locks and have a race?

I will tell you because I asked them...

"To keep the stoke alive..."


I think we could learn a thing or two from them...


And yes of course I chased them with my mini and handed over footage, lol

711267112771128
God I miss Cali...Nor Cal to be exact! I loved it there!

33db
13th March 2016, 11:21 AM
God I miss Cali...Nor Cal to be exact! I loved it there!
Then you didn't live in Sacramento.

In any case, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fOVXndyjAo

Is easier for the neophyte to grasp than FPV, it's a visceral, physical thing, someone could get killed.
FPV is a lot like a video game.

Don't get me wrong I love doing FPV, but as a spectator it's boring.

c5galaxy engineer
13th March 2016, 12:03 PM
Then you didn't live in Sacramento.
I lived at Travis AFB but flew Paramotors up in Rocklin a lot during my stint there. I also lived in Auburn for about a year a few years ago. I loved it. I may be moving back down there for a little bit and start flying paramotors again with my buddies that still live there. It would be for monthly stints while my wife and I live in our RV.

33db
13th March 2016, 12:43 PM
I lived at Travis AFB but flew Paramotors up in Rocklin a lot during my stint there. I also lived in Auburn for about a year a few years ago. I loved it. I may be moving back down there for a little bit and start flying paramotors again with my buddies that still live there. It would be for monthly stints while my wife and I live in our RV.
Auburn isn't bad, Sacramento is a crack in the ground filled with brown fog.

It all gets better as you go north or up in elevation.

squishy
13th March 2016, 09:49 PM
[video of downhill skateboarding]

Is easier for the neophyte to grasp than FPV, it's a visceral, physical thing, someone could get killed.


Then explain to me why it is still not a spectator sport? I discovered the "scene" still having races in the woods and liking it better that way.

They make fun of the downhill championships but they still go. There's a few organizers of major races, just like FPV, some feel one is legit, laymen see it on TV and think others are legit...I see a mirror image of FPV in the culture and history of surfing, climbing longboarding, BASE and skateboarding. The people (began as young rejects from AMA clubs), the organizers (snake oil salesmen verses grassroots guys) the culture (stoked and passionate about their activity) and the activity done in unauthorized places (like the FPV flying spots, skating spots, "spots" spots spots). Not to mention the shared enemy: "the man". Some activities have grown to legitimacy, but their history, each, is fought with growing pains and battles to gain that respect and legitimacy.

The skateboard itself, the item you used to make your argument was tossed aside in the 1950's like it was a novelty, a TOY. Along side the hoolu hoop, now look at it! Look at the respect you just gave it and the people who have taken it to what it is today...

The surfers of Hawaii and the climbers of Yosemite's camp 4 through the 1960's, all bums! And you would call them that today if you saw them sitting around smoking reefer and doing nothing but their passion. You wanna know what they would think of Kelly Slater? You can guess...

In only a few years...we could go full circle into nothing in a very short time if we let it happen, just like the skateboard did in the 50's, only to wait another 10 years before anyone actually "got it". Where as the "hobby" of seeking challenges through FPV, flying in formation with your buddies...like FLYING...it's the hobby of flying for F#K's sake, in essence, there's no better hobby to have, nothing more worthy to be passionate about...you want to equate it to a video game, that's fine, but I can tell you...you are no FPV pilot....you have not felt it yet....FPV for me, and for many others is a very very visceral thing, it is almost spiritual...and we crave that ride...Maybe some day you will have the privilege to understand as well...

33db
14th March 2016, 12:16 AM
Then explain to me why it is still not a spectator sport? I discovered the "scene" still having races in the woods and liking it better that way.

OK, well first skateboarding is a spectator sport (https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=skateboard+competitions&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8), and it is far easier for people to be impressed by someone doing 70mph on a skateboard, than it is to be impressed by a guy in a lawn chair flying (what to some people) is a toy.
Did you watch that skater I posted? I get a rush off of that video, the balls on the guy, I respect that.

I disagree with the way you're approaching this FPV racing thing, you don't like the commercialism and that's fine, but why take the time to denigrate something that others may enjoy, that creates jobs, and that may help to legitimize FPV.

The same way competitions in the 70's on up to today legitimized skateboards in the publics eyes, not to mention how much better the tech got when money was involved

By the way the downhill you posted is in fact "commercial".

I went to a downhill skateboarding outlaw race today, complete with pro riders, vendors, manufacturers and their large vehicles...their sport of racing has existed for about 30 years...there was a 10$ buy in $100 purse and hot dogs...

They still want to compete, just not in the main stream comps, it's more fun for them with less rules and if it's quasi illegal.

What I hear you saying is "freedom" Squishy, you want to have fun, you don't want any rules, and you don't want the crap that comes with money being involved.
All of that is cool and I can respect it, just let go of hating any aspect of this hobby you don't like and focus on the positive.

That's why I fly alone, I like it that way, no chatter, no rules, no bullshit, no "frequency check" just ****ing fly.

Implicit
14th March 2016, 02:32 AM
I went to a downhill skateboarding outlaw race today, complete with pro riders, vendors, manufacturers and their large vehicles...their sport of racing has existed for about 30 years...there was a 10$ buy in $100 purse and hot dogs...

Why would a well established sport with a long history and even public funds building skateparks across town, head up to the hills and trespass, cut locks and have a race?

I will tell you because I asked them...

"To keep the stoke alive..."


I think we could learn a thing or two from them...


And yes of course I chased them with my mini and handed over footage, lol

711267112771128

Downhill skateboarding has been a minority sport within skateboarding since the 80s, so it's not really a relevant comparison. A better example would be the Mount Baker Banked Slalom, a 30 year old snowboarding event where big time pros and amateurs compete on the same course for...a roll of ducttape.

If anything, snowboarding (and mainstream skateboarding), shows that there's room for both. I hang out with some 'serious' FPV racers and I cannot imagine a more friendly and sharing bunch, so I would say that the stoke in FPV is still very much alive.
I was never going to be good enough to compete in the X-Games, but that never stopped me from having fun with my skateboard and a simple curb...and I still some of the local pro-ams playing with curbs. Similarly, I don't see why racing should interfere with you flying the way you want to fly.
Does that race in Dubai in anyway prevent you from doing what you want to do?

squishy
14th March 2016, 02:38 AM
I wrote this before the race in dubai happened, lol

squishy
14th March 2016, 02:40 AM
That's why I fly alone, I like it that way, no chatter, no rules, no bullshit, no "frequency check" just ****ing fly.

So you agree with me>?

Implicit
14th March 2016, 02:47 AM
I wrote this before the race in dubai happened, lol

So?..the race was already announced...but my point remains: Why can't there be room for both?

Channel 1
14th March 2016, 06:33 AM
That's hardly it at all, I'm on the side of the "hobby", and trying to keep a imaginary "sport" that is being forcefully conceived for profit, from stealing the hobby's best values, culture and attributes.

Sort of like this?


Total Prize Purse: USD$25,000 distributed over the various categories. Grand Prize is $10,000. There will be more prizes, trophies, awards, ribbons and swag than you can pack in your bag, so bring extras.

Wayne

Channel 1
14th March 2016, 06:47 AM
Chill out dude. Like you said, it's a hobby.

Drone racing when squishy runs it = the best there is, excellent for promoting the hobby and "nothing but handshakes and pictures and good times for all those who came...it was such a cool atmosphere...."

Drone racing when someone else runs it = corporate greed, ruination of the hobby and it causes erectile dysfunction and premature hair loss.

Wayne

33db
14th March 2016, 09:27 AM
So you agree with me>?

No, I understand how you feel, but I see commercialization as a good thing, more acceptance, more money, better tech.

squishy
14th March 2016, 01:02 PM
No, I understand how you feel, but I see commercialization as a good thing, more acceptance, more money, better tech.

Did I say commercialization is a bad thing? I think you are confusing. I am speaking about who, and how FPV racing is being commercialized, the drone industry ship has sailed, all this has been commercial a long time.

Zeeflyboy
14th March 2016, 01:39 PM
So basically you're upset that it's not you or someone you like that is successfully making FPV racing commercial?

It's all been said by others - the two sides aren't mutually exclusive. Don't like the way certain things are going, don't participate. It doesn't affect the ability of you and your friends to enjoy the hobby the way you want to.

c5galaxy engineer
14th March 2016, 07:09 PM
Never said it did...in fact I'm the last person to allow it to effect me, ask those who know me.

Boy you guys sure have some ideas about what I'm saying, have you actually read the op?

So basically you are all saying, being cool, doing it right, are all unworthy causes, and we should just give in to whatever horse and pony show that comes a long because you're all sell outs away fighting for the floating cash?...got it..
Well in Zee's defense the OP reads like the uni-bomber manifesto. It is a bit lengthy. I read it, and I think you are entitled to your truth.

Reliku
15th March 2016, 06:58 AM
You're all missing the point :rolleyes:

I'm just gonna go fly some more. After I'm done with this popcorn :)

http://img.michaeljacksonspictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/popcorn-blank.gif

33db
15th March 2016, 07:08 AM
You're all missing the point :rolleyes:


OK, what's the point?

Reliku
15th March 2016, 07:48 AM
Go out, fly, have fun? :rolleyes:

33db
15th March 2016, 09:05 AM
Go out, fly, have fun? :rolleyes:

Ahh the point of the hobby, I thought you meant the point of this thread.

Reliku
15th March 2016, 11:50 AM
Nah, the point of the thread is eating popcorn :P

Don't get me wrong btw Squishy, I get your point, but I'd just ignore it if I were you, no need to get worked up over it ;)

kross1
15th March 2016, 12:21 PM
This thread is fun!

My comparison would be playing sports with friends, versus any professional/major sports league.

While I've enjoyed the sports with my friends, I have never had any interest in "the big leagues". However, there has to be room for both. Even though I may not care, many many others do.

33db
15th March 2016, 12:41 PM
Yeah... well I thought I got the point, but now I am not so sure there was one.

squishy
15th March 2016, 01:20 PM
Oh there's a point, and it appears this Dubai event is now highlighting it for me all over FB and instagram as pilots get home and begin speaking their minds. but because of you (a complete noob) and others genuine dislike of me, you took it as an opportunity to attack my character through my admitted "rant" and pervert my point.

I really don't mind though. those in the audience who get my point, get my point. Your noise is overlooked by the people I wish to reach. In fact your a great filter to suck people into bullshit distractions so I can more easily identity those not intelligent to understand what I'm saying, lol. so I should thanking you.

71167

Pushjerk
15th March 2016, 01:24 PM
As with major sporting events in the US, I wonder if the recent Worlds in Dubai was a no drone zone?

Beachflyer
15th March 2016, 01:30 PM
Don't give a rats ass about the politics of this thread, but I do wonder exactly what this pilot is whining about in the Facebook post. Sounds like a sore loser.

71167[/QUOTE]

Channel 1
15th March 2016, 01:46 PM
^^ Yup and he's not the only one munching sour grapes about it.

Wayne

33db
15th March 2016, 02:18 PM
I think part of the problem is that these pilots (is pilot really the right word?) went from a no rules situation to one filled with rules and other peoples money.

Additionally this drone racing is so new I would again point out the "skateboard analogy", in which many of the same complaints were voiced during the initial competitions in the 70's.
You can see some of what I am talking about in the movie "Lords of Dogtown", I was an avid skater at the time and read Skateboader, so I kind of saw it first hand.

At some point when you grow up, you realize anything to do with money is always a giant pain in the arse.
What some call "noob" I call shoshin.

71168

c5galaxy engineer
17th March 2016, 11:12 AM
FYI.....This thread (as is all of them actually) is moderated. No condescending or threatening posts are allowed. Please read the user agreements that is agreed to by all of us in here. We all hate deleting post or jumping in but if it makes folks uncomfortable enough to complain then moderators need to investigate it. This forum needs to appear as welcoming as possible to new users as well as us FPVLAB veterans and not a cliquey corner of a playground.

This forum is supported by reputable sponsors and their interest as well as the freedom to speak our minds as users are constantly balanced. Our overseer and savior, the FPVLAB God Sentry, has given the task to a few of us to act within guide lines to maintain this balance.

I am sorry to the authors to have to have had deleted the last few post here in order to skew the balance to the positive and I apologize to anyone that was offended by them because I was not available to have deleted them sooner.

Zeeflyboy
17th March 2016, 01:57 PM
Well now I want to know what I missed...

c5galaxy engineer
17th March 2016, 02:14 PM
Well now I want to know what I missed...
It wasnt much Zee.....LOL

Beachflyer
17th March 2016, 03:10 PM
Well now I want to know what I missed...
Stupid drone racing of course

papabatman
17th March 2016, 04:23 PM
so i was glued to all the live feeds and other avenue of info on the Dubai race. there where lots of things not going perfect. a lot of good pilots didn't make it not because of there skill but because of unforeseen problems. live and learn drive on. multigp is getting way better with the imd 5 for running events. we as a chapter are getting way better at running events. we still do have just fun flying days. we are not running are events to be pro's but is someone wants to go pro we are a least giving them the basic training they need. lets face it the old guys(me) are not going to be the super stars. i see the OP point. but i also see if anyone wants to race there should be a well run place for it. so if any one is visiting Colorado come see us "the other guys". by the way half of my favorite team THE BIG WHOOP didn't make it either. they still had fun made new friends so the spirit is still alive

Roboforcer X2000
17th March 2016, 05:01 PM
This forum needs to appear as welcoming as possible
Well then... pint of Guinness for everyone!!! *hic* happy Paddy's day! *hick* I love you all!

That's how you turn things the right way when a thread is starting to get sour- derailing with OT and put a smiley face at the end, this one- :)

squishy
17th March 2016, 07:32 PM
71227

c5galaxy engineer
17th March 2016, 07:40 PM
Well then... pint of Guinness for everyone!!! *hic* happy Paddy's day! *hick* I love you all!

That's how you turn things the right way when a thread is starting to get sour- derailing with OT and put a smiley face at the end, this one- :)
Geeeeezus I love the Irish......!
+1 for Robo and the round he just bought. Happy St. Paddy's Day to ya! i'll see your smilley face....:) and raise you one of those "Joe Cool" faces...:cool:

Håvard Støre
17th March 2016, 07:43 PM
I think all fpv flying is stupid. I just do it to impress the ladies.

c5galaxy engineer
17th March 2016, 07:47 PM
I think all fpv flying is stupid. I just do it to impress the ladies.
Yup......I've lost count of the number of ladies that wanted to bed me just because I FPV.......It's how Zee got lucky to!

Håvard Støre
17th March 2016, 07:57 PM
Lol:) Sitting there in a deckchair with my goggles, all tangled up in lipos and wires (not really, I use a repeater). A real alpha specimen.

Seems like this thread is petering out. Cant see it going anywhere, as everyone actually agrees, that anyone can spend their time as they please. Its not complicated.

PDXDave
17th March 2016, 08:00 PM
Yup......I've lost count of the number of ladies that wanted to bed me just because I FPV.....

You lost count at 1? Damn, dude...sorry...

c5galaxy engineer
17th March 2016, 09:32 PM
You lost count at 1? Damn, dude...sorry...
Hahahaha......you got me there you dick!.....LOL

kross1
17th March 2016, 10:05 PM
Dudes,you are holding your computers upside down again,as the 0 is at the other end of the keyboard.

c5galaxy engineer
18th March 2016, 10:45 AM
^LMAO!!

QuadroBro
19th March 2016, 12:15 AM
I came to go fast and crash shit, then get on forums to attempt to get help after exhausting Google, then end up bitching about shit since forums have essentially become social media and every asshole that got helped by a hundred people and helped one comes to the table with little more than "RTM", or, don't bother reading any new posts and move forward with their own agenda.

I'll be honest, I'm not a fan of capitalism run rampant, but I'm less a fan of the emo-boy/hipster attitude of "I liked it before it was cool". Shit, I'm a 35 year-old that play with toys that fly fast and need constant repair and new parts. How much pussy do you think I'd get if I lead with that trying to pick up a chick?

I thought it was cool, as did my kids, so I dove in. The one commonality I've picked up on in getting into this hobby, is that there are far more anti-social people than I ever imagined. I'm pretty social, grew up playing sports and socialize with friends... That I met, "IRL". That being said, I'm THE nerd that whips out videos of great pilots to show friends.

Out of a couple dozen people I've shown videos to, two people have any interest in doing it. Neither have purchased shit. I can appreciate your sentiment about purity, but let's be honest, what industry has progressed technologically, economically, etc, without commercialization? Shit, there's an entire marketing-based industry revolving around WATCHING PEOPLE PLAY VIDEO GAMES. think about that for a sec and consider where the problems with the human race ACTUALLY are. At least this hobby gets people out of their house. Obviously the issue isn't with the hobby but the commercialization of it, and yes, from the one drl video I saw and brief trip to their website, I thought it was f.ucking hilarious and won't last, which means that perhaps the door will open for people like YOU to affect change and help mold it into what YOU want it to be.

Competition is in our nature man and the one thing worse than shit like the drl in my opinion, is pilots posting sped up videos claiming it to be real-time because it causes unrealistic expectations.

How? Use me as an example. I buy a quad build it, after a couple weeks flying fpv, I hit the 30° max angle of the 210 and realized that my videos clearly weren't moving as fast others that have more than grass in frame. What's worse is online "retailers" with no clue what customer satisfaction is, yet proudly advertise %100 customer satisfaction on their kanged site.

My point is, it's a brand new industry compared to others and while your view as an experienced pilot is that it's getting to commercial, other people see much bigger issues needing to be addressed and getting people into the industry that understand how to operate a business and provide customer service, will go a LOT further in helping the industry as a whole grow. In the end, it doesn't matter how much money someone has to throw at a business, if their intent isn't sincere and interest isn't genuine, they'll be weeded out. F*** it dude. Life's too short to be concerned with it being done cheesily

CongoSavanne
19th March 2016, 12:27 PM
where the problems with the human race ACTUALLY are



Competition is in our nature man

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html?_r=0

QuadroBro
19th March 2016, 11:21 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html?_r=0


Similar in theory. I'm not going to fight you for tainted meat though if that's your endgame...;)

whakahere
20th March 2016, 05:02 AM
drone racing in Geramny ...... 25mw 5.8ghz .... led lights where i dont want them and weight i dont want.

still going to go. Will I win .... no .... will I crash ... hell yes ...... will I crash into someone ..... if I can get away with it

the whaka method of joining fpv racing and hobby ;)

CongoSavanne
20th March 2016, 09:44 AM
Similar in theory. I'm not going to fight you for tainted meat though if that's your endgame...;)

LOL no not the meat, the idea that even monkeys benefit from co-operation rather the competition.

You're correct that competition is in some peoples genetic make up, but the time for it being useful has passed, co-operation is the way forward.

The rest of your post was spot on.

Channel 1
20th March 2016, 09:55 AM
You're correct that competition is in some peoples genetic make up, but the time for it being useful has passed, co-operation is the way forward.

Cooperation is only for the few who wish to be ruled by those who are willing to fiercely compete.

Wayne

whakahere
20th March 2016, 11:01 AM
Cooperation is only for the few who wish to be ruled by those who are willing to fiercely compete.

Wayne

denial - the act of believing that you are more than a peon in this world. Strange thing is, humans are successful because we can both compete and cooperate at the same time. Na screw it .... you all suck and I will fight you all to prove it. (living in denial makes daily life so much easier)

CongoSavanne
20th March 2016, 01:09 PM
Cooperation is only for the few who wish to be ruled by those who are willing to fiercely compete.

Wayne
If you want to move this to "off topic" I'll debate you on it.

Channel 1
20th March 2016, 02:26 PM
If you want to move this to "off topic" I'll debate you on it.

Nothing to debate as that is my opinion and I doubt you will be able to change that.

Wayne

CongoSavanne
20th March 2016, 02:35 PM
Nothing to debate as that is my opinion and I doubt you will be able to change that.

Wayne
I feel the same way =)

squishy
21st March 2016, 07:34 PM
Artists verses athletes...it's the age old question isn't it? what are we?

There's some required watching (which is also entertaining) for those serious about my analogy...

And I challenge you all to answer a question after watching these...

What is the soul of FPV? Of the hobby? Of the community? Put it into words for me and maybe you get quoted in my next article.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvQZjrmfb14


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nyrC0aQzb0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RDzpTDLBQQ

Håvard Støre
21st March 2016, 08:06 PM
No, I am not watching three hours of film. Thats homework.

Skateboarding is riding a plank with hopelessly small wheels. As a mode of personal transportation it is the silliest of them all. The sport/art requires no planning, no money, little intelligence, little understanding of technology, little creativity, no building skills, no understanding of how things work, little discipline etc. Its however a fine art or sport as many other pastimes are.

Comparing skating to fpv is a stretch to say the least. Comparing skaters to fpv-ers is also a stretch. I can however agree theres an outlaw/rebel wibe in both cultures. Were dudes, not sirs.

squishy
22nd March 2016, 09:08 PM
Then answer the question dude...

Håvard Støre
22nd March 2016, 09:27 PM
Then answer the question dude...
I consider some fpvers and skateboarders to be artists.
That being said, I don't think this label will be recognized by most people.

You may say that most fpv flying is pastime, and some is art. Most people may see it as a spinoff hobby from model flying. Maybe it is all these things including the category of sport. What do you think?

squishy
23rd March 2016, 03:35 PM
I consider some fpvers and skateboarders to be artists.
That being said, I don't think this label will be recognized by most people.

You may say that most fpv flying is pastime, and some is art. Most people may see it as a spinoff hobby from model flying. Maybe it is all these things including the category of sport. What do you think?



What do I think the soul of FPV is?

I think the soul of FPV is the freedom of flight through the air, unconstrained as strongly as your dreams and imaginations could possibly be. It is the hobby of linking the pilot's brain with a flying machine, the two working in harmony so that it produces an immersive and latency free experience for the user and creates art through the movement and physics of the flying machine itself. Many of us use this movement to produce video recordings to share, that video raises hairs on the viewers neck as new and creative things never dreamt of, are made real, are experienced. Since before historiography, mankind has watched the birds, looked up in jealousy of their speed and endurance over great distances. Man was nomadic and could only view the birds from below with more want to fly with each generation. From the earliest times there have been legends of men mounting flying devices or strapping birdlike wings, stiffened cloaks or other devices to themselves and attempting to fly, typically by jumping off a tower. The Greek legend of Daedalus and Icarus is one of the earliest to come down to us. According to Ovid, Daedalus tied feathers together to mimic the wings of a bird. Other ancient legends include the Indian Vimana flying palace or chariot, Ezekiel's Chariot, various stories about Magic carpets, and mythical British King Bladud, who conjured up flying wings. It wasn't until about 1783 that a man was recorded flying in Europe, and then not until the mid 1800's until heavier than air craft began coming of age and gliding. when it comes down to it, aviation as a subject, is in it's infancy. And Aviation at the FPV scale or size is even harder than what has been done before. The soul of FPV is the people that understand all that, they feel the human burn and drive to fly, instincts living within us all and created through millennia of watching birds. Yet at the same time, they now see a way to get it, they see a way to experience it, to make their dreams come true. And they never left their own garages. In the beginning this meant knowledge of RC aircraft, soldering, RF HAM knowledge and video TV or photography knowledge. FPV is not a easy hobby and that's what made it so great, that's what filtered the early pioneers of it and that's why it's being destroyed by those who want it to be controlled, sold, marketed to the masses. The very thing we found through innovation and intestinal fortitude, is being banned, regulated and stripped away from us, and at the same time, sold to us, marketed to us...Open your eyes...you are the soul of FPV..Your passion for it...

Roboforcer X2000
23rd March 2016, 03:45 PM
Jayzus, Squishy, you just can't get over that depression and keep on sulking... your heart must be completely broken. I feel for you brother, so does everybody else here at the LAB. No need for a shrink, we're all here together gonna help you to get over you heartache...

squishy
23rd March 2016, 04:31 PM
Wow, so I'm the only one who answers the question when challenged and you still come back with more attacks...lol Your reply has nothing to do with the thread, thanks for the input and and attempted insult, it was telling of your character..

Roboforcer X2000
23rd March 2016, 05:32 PM
I'm here not insult, but to laugh and poke you with a pinch of sarcasm:) I just find hilarious when somebody upsets over such a simple things, especially when they're a part of evolution and nothing can be done about that. I'm the same with DJI dumb&dumber mode stuff and I sure *do* expect for people take a piss out of me just because I'm stubborn and can't easily get over it.
If you didn't get my sarcastic sense of humor and friendly slagging in my previous post, then my apologies, happy flying! ...or sulking... LOL
And if you didn't get the sentence above, last word of it was pure sarcasm for a laugh without intention to insult, and apology was true:) Cheers, cheer up!

squishy
24th March 2016, 11:03 AM
I'm not really upset bro, but thanks...I'm stating an opinion...if my words ring of bitching or passion or emotion, then I'm sorry I am able to infuse it so well, lol..but honestly, I'm just saying...don't be a sell out...be a FPV pilot...

Flyswamper
24th March 2016, 02:19 PM
Wow, so I'm the only one who answers the question....

Just so you have another answer to your question of what is the soul of fpv.....


My answer:

FPV doesn't have a soul. FPV is an activity that people engage in. Depending on your belief system, the people that engage in the activity have their own very individual souls. They also have their own individual likes/dislikes, and generally find enjoyment and amusement in whatever way they/we see fit to do so. While I may enjoy many/most of the same aspects of the hobby as others here do.... I find it a bit amusing, a bit ironic, and a tad bit pompous that there seems to be a suggestion that I/we should only find enjoyment in the activity in the ways prescribed by some select group or viewpoint of others.

So.... there... you have another person that answered your question. :)

P.S. Sometimes I even find enjoyment in things like this...

[https://img1.etsystatic.com/011/0/6591696/il_570xN.423475973_dbtd.jpg

QuadroBro
24th March 2016, 06:25 PM
including the category of sport. What do you think?


I think anything that involves sitting or minimal physical exertion is the last thing I'll ever refer to as a sport.

QuadroBro
24th March 2016, 06:49 PM
LOL no not the meat, the idea that even monkeys benefit from co-operation rather the competition.

You're correct that competition is in some peoples genetic make up, but the time for it being useful has passed, co-operation is the way forward.

The rest of your post was spot on.

Thanks, but the problem is that with money often comes ego and the people with the serious money are spending it trying to shove their vision down the public at large's throat. My personal opinion is that it grew too fast and the local infrastructure isn't in place to support it. TL;DR: DRL guy bought in on a penny stock. Sadly, this penny stock ACTUALLY has promise, but it may get pumped and dumped, which is fine and may lead to a rethinking of how organizations are structured and local infrastructure is built and supported. Perfect example, one of the biggest multigp chapters is where I live, but it appears they have one or two races/month, the last one being at some dude's farm. Eventually, there will need to be multiple races power week and instead of covering 30sq mi there will be one power town or city. Then in large metropolitan areas there will be multiple chapters. The problem is that very few people have even considered racing quads and the people who fly them appear to be surly neckbeards that would sooner hyperventilate and blow a rape whistle than chat with someone whose interested in what they're doing.

I've been flying at the same park as weather permits for the past couple weeks and the number of people and their motive for talking to me it's wide ranging. Guys just wanna know how fast it can go, old ladies wanna make sure you're not spying on them like they're a GILF, and usually women with young kids comment to their kids on it and gawk till I land or they realize I'm not taking off till they cuz... Last thing I'd ever want is to hit a kid with one of these ****in things.
Anybody that wants to see it, I'll gladly show and as much as I'd like to tell some people, "**** off, I'm flying", it's not polite and paints every person with a drone as an asshole in their mind.

CongoSavanne
24th March 2016, 07:49 PM
Thanks, but the problem is that with money often comes ego and the people with the serious money are spending it trying to shove their vision down the public at large's throat. My personal opinion is that it grew too fast and the local infrastructure isn't in place to support it. TL;DR: DRL guy bought in on a penny stock. Sadly, this penny stock ACTUALLY has promise, but it may get pumped and dumped, which is fine and may lead to a rethinking of how organizations are structured and local infrastructure is built and supported. Perfect example, one of the biggest multigp chapters is where I live, but it appears they have one or two races/month, the last one being at some dude's farm. Eventually, there will need to be multiple races power week and instead of covering 30sq mi there will be one power town or city. Then in large metropolitan areas there will be multiple chapters. The problem is that very few people have even considered racing quads and the people who fly them appear to be surly neckbeards that would sooner hyperventilate and blow a rape whistle than chat with someone whose interested in what they're doing.

I've been flying at the same park as weather permits for the past couple weeks and the number of people and their motive for talking to me it's wide ranging. Guys just wanna know how fast it can go, old ladies wanna make sure you're not spying on them like they're a GILF, and usually women with young kids comment to their kids on it and gawk till I land or they realize I'm not taking off till they cuz... Last thing I'd ever want is to hit a kid with one of these ****in things.
Anybody that wants to see it, I'll gladly show and as much as I'd like to tell some people, "**** off, I'm flying", it's not polite and paints every person with a drone as an asshole in their mind.


lol @ "neckbeards."

squishy
25th March 2016, 01:45 PM
lol, someone went and done did it ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Rn-oP1y1U

QuadroBro
27th March 2016, 06:45 PM
lol, someone went and done did it ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9Rn-oP1y1U
Dat wax doe

squishy
28th March 2016, 09:13 PM
better?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNvxkL6OmpQ

QuadroBro
30th March 2016, 10:01 AM
Do people that race quads have a sense of humor? I only ask because I'm pretty sure what I just programmed the Taranis to do at take off is as "frowned upon" as it is hilarious...

kross1
30th March 2016, 01:11 PM
Do people that race quads have a sense of humor? I only ask because I'm pretty sure what I just programmed the Taranis to do at take off is as "frowned upon" as it is hilarious...

Come on Dude, you can't drop that bomb and leave us hanging like that. POOR FORM.

Video, please? Aim cell phone/camera at Taranis, hit record, turn on Taranis, upload, make us laugh.

Please?

(Yes, I assume some/most racers have senses of humor, maybe not all?)

CongoSavanne
30th March 2016, 01:38 PM
When I turn my Taranis on it says "Welcome Aboard Captain".

kross1
30th March 2016, 06:13 PM
Amber voice, "USER ERROR, PLEASE REPLACE USER".

squishy
30th March 2016, 07:29 PM
A major magazine called me today for an interview concerning this thread and opinion, lol. I thought that was pretty cool. I must have hit a nerve somewhere..

QuadroBro
31st March 2016, 10:12 PM
When I turn my Taranis on it says "Welcome Aboard Captain".
Mine says, "shit just got real".

QuadroBro
31st March 2016, 10:14 PM
Come on Dude, you can't drop that bomb and leave us hanging like that. POOR FORM.

Video, please? Aim cell phone/camera at Taranis, hit record, turn on Taranis, upload, make us laugh.

Please?

(Yes, I assume some/most racers have senses of humor, maybe not all?)
I was going to record from behind at the first practice lap to record the reaction and carnage, but since it's snowing again, I'm not sure there will be a race, sooooo I'll make a video and link it.



Here ya go: https://youtu.be/Oza6QfpHXlA

RedLeif FPV
12th April 2016, 12:28 AM
I have a brilliant solution to this I think because I understand what your saying. Would love to bounce an idea off you and get your perspective message me if your interested...

CongoSavanne
12th April 2016, 07:33 PM
I was going to record from behind at the first practice lap to record the reaction and carnage, but since it's snowing again, I'm not sure there will be a race, sooooo I'll make a video and link it.



Here ya go: https://youtu.be/Oza6QfpHXlA
Can't understand what it's saying and that video playback jumps between multiple youtube servers, never seen that before.

CongoSavanne
12th April 2016, 08:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNW2B7DOSFg

QuadroBro
12th April 2016, 10:12 PM
Can't understand what it's saying and that video playback jumps between multiple youtube servers, never seen that before.

Big hecks on all the tubes

RonSII
12th April 2016, 10:17 PM
Big hecks on all the tubes

+10000000 :)

CongoSavanne
12th April 2016, 10:47 PM
Big hecks on all the tubes
I have no idea what that means, I even Googled it.

QuadroBro
13th April 2016, 08:03 AM
I have no idea what that means, I even Googled it.
The other computer need does.

CongoSavanne
13th April 2016, 09:00 AM
The other computer need does.
So needy :rolleyes: mines better. ;)

RonSII
13th April 2016, 09:17 AM
LOL ^^ So nerdy, mine is way better ;)

CongoSavanne
13th April 2016, 09:42 PM
Pbbbbbt..... you guys have to explain yours, mine is self explanatory.

RonSII
13th April 2016, 10:10 PM
Oh... sorry.... you'd understand if you were in the club ;)

CongoSavanne
13th April 2016, 10:36 PM
Oh... sorry.... you'd understand if you were in the club ;)
Never join a club that will have you as a member.

RonSII
13th April 2016, 10:40 PM
No members in this club...

CongoSavanne
13th April 2016, 10:52 PM
No members in this club...
My member looks like a club.

Håvard Støre
14th April 2016, 06:19 AM
My member looks like a club.
You should see a doctor;)

CongoSavanne
14th April 2016, 10:37 AM
You should see a doctor;)
It hasn't been 4 hours yet.

kross1
14th April 2016, 11:28 AM
It hasn't been 4 hours yet.

71791

Reason I took this pic off our TV, look at the flowers on the left side if the screen..... 2 blue ......

CongoSavanne
14th April 2016, 12:39 PM
71791

Reason I took this pic off our TV, look at the flowers on the left side if the screen..... 2 blue ......
Noticing the cheap psychology of ads eh? Good for you.
Here's some more from a "liberal" pro neo-feminist "news" outlet, see what they are doing there?
71792

Channel 1
14th April 2016, 04:05 PM
Noticing the cheap psychology of ads eh? Good for you.
Here's some more from a "liberal" pro neo-feminist "news" outlet, see what they are doing there?
71792

Looks like Cruz is ready to shoot the broad a bird. ;-)

Wayne

CongoSavanne
14th April 2016, 05:29 PM
More to the point hillary is in front of the other 3, the only one smiling, and the men look apprehensive.

It's a sad thing, but these subtle little pokes at the public's collective brain actually work.

Channel 1
14th April 2016, 06:54 PM
More to the point hillary is in front of the other 3, the only one smiling, and the men look apprehensive.

It's a sad thing, but these subtle little pokes at the public's collective brain actually work.

That's old news, anyone remember the Times OJ cover?

News or what pushes itself out as news in the U.S. and the advertising that drives it, where materialism and gimme now has been honed down to a level of Psyops, has become an industry that makes Goebbels look like an amateur.

Too many people in the U.S. believe they are being informed, but fail to understand the many words with nothing stated that fills the news cycle here in the U.S. is really not news.

It's actually a tease for the materialistic advertising coming up next.

Wayne

Sky Soldier
4th May 2016, 07:46 PM
Man i love fpv racing but it's becoming $ pits lol.

squishy
12th May 2016, 04:55 PM
I thought this was relevant to the conversation...good luck out there racers, lol

http://thirdlawsports.com/2016/05/11/60-days-world-drone-prix-wheres-1-million/

SecretSpy711
8th June 2016, 11:39 AM
Aren't you drone racers concerned at all about the upcoming Part 107 and 101.41 rules? Since the FAA interpreted their special rule for model aircraft to preclude the use of goggles (since, according to them, it obscures the operators vision) meaning racing would not fall under the upcoming 101.41 for hobbyists, but rather 107, which says, among other things that you won't like:


With vision that is unaided by any device other than corrective lenses, the operator or visual observer must be able to see the unmanned aircraft throughout the entire flight in order to:
(a) Know the unmanned aircraft’s location;
(b) Determine the unmanned aircraft’s attitude, altitude, and direction;
(c) Observe the airspace for other air traffic or hazards; and
(d) Determine that the unmanned aircraft does not endanger the life or property of another.


This would effectively kill FPV racing, in a legal sense.

djsomers
8th June 2016, 01:10 PM
It appears to me that "the operator or visual observer" language would allow for FPV if there are observers. It would certainly prohibit individuals from flying without an observer but racing with a observer would be allowed. That is my reading. Anyone else?

CongoSavanne
8th June 2016, 01:31 PM
Racing will find an exemption if it catches on enough, the reason I think this is it is primarily in a controlled environment, low altitude, low weight.

squishy
12th June 2016, 02:18 PM
73125

squishy
17th June 2016, 01:32 PM
https://techcrunch.com/2016/06/15/when-drones-go-pro/

ukd
22nd June 2016, 07:29 PM
Well put, just bumped into this post.

If you watch Charpu at the aforementioned nationals you will see him holding back from saying "this is a joke". Winning was not crashing. The course was set up wrong (and very 2 dimensional).

I don't race. No interest. Refused several sponsorships and denied affiliation with any league. The "racers" I have been around are overwhelmingly intoxicated (high and/or drunk when flying) and unsafe. And they have no professionalism. That is as nice as I can put it.

Feel free to reach out and talk more, again well put. FPV racing is such a joke.

Sky Soldier
23rd June 2016, 11:10 AM
^ yeah these guys are gonna ruin it for us. A lot of guys barely come into this hobby and are racing experts and really don't give a shit about this hobby, only want sponsors and $ free shit.

Roboforcer X2000
23rd June 2016, 11:51 AM
these guys are gonna ruin it for us
Ruin what? Your day, mood, sex life? Or maybe your entire weekend until Monday? Well, not this hobby definitely... In fact, FPV racing has the most chance to change public's opinion from "evil spying drones" to "recreational hobby/sport".

SecretSpy711
23rd June 2016, 12:15 PM
^ yeah these guys are gonna ruin it for us. A lot of guys barely come into this hobby and are racing experts and really don't give a shit about this hobby, only want sponsors and $ free shit.

sounds like simple jealousy to me. some guys are just better on the sticks than others. if you could get someone to pay you for doing what you love, wouldn't you?.

Channel 1
23rd June 2016, 03:04 PM
Ruin what? Your day, mood, sex life? Or maybe your entire weekend until Monday? Well, not this hobby definitely... In fact, FPV racing has the most chance to change public's opinion from "evil spying drones" to "recreational hobby/sport".

While I believe FPV racing will never be a major sporting event it does help to mainstream the hobby away from the evil killing babies and spying drone syndrome so common in many shallow minds nowadays.

Wayne

Sky Soldier
23rd June 2016, 05:29 PM
Yeah I gotta stir the pot LOL ;) they ruin my chubby haha come on man we need something to jive about

Sky Soldier
23rd June 2016, 05:33 PM
Na i'm a happy camper and get discounts on lots of stuff from sponsors anyways. I do this for personal enjoyment & therapy freebees are nice

learn2turn
27th June 2016, 08:53 AM
I just got into FPV racing this year. Why? I like flying courses with my mini-quads. Do I do it to be competitive with others? No. I do it to complete with myself; I got three laps in in the last round, maybe I can get in four without crashing this time. Do I aspire to go to regional or national events or complete for money? NFW. I find the organized venue of the local hobbyist races a great way to have fun and get to fly courses with other pilots. That's it. So there are commercial races; so we'll see it on TV. Big deal. That's different thing altogether in my book.

I've been a very avid skier since I was a kid. There are millions of recreational skiers. Ever local mountain has what they call "beer-league" races where hundreds of skiers race on Tuesday night or Saturday morning. Do any of those sports skiers aspire to be Ted or Lindsey? No, of course not. But they all do like watching Ted and Lindsey on TV. And they like getting a couple timed runs with their buddies every week, then going in for a couple beers at the pub.

-l2t

Renn
28th June 2016, 02:01 PM
FPV racing a sport? haha. dumb.
This whole reference to FPV being soul is dumb too. Get over it.

SecretSpy711
28th June 2016, 06:30 PM
FPV racing a sport? haha. dumb.
This whole reference to FPV being soul is dumb too. Get over it.

who are you to say such things? Lots of people are passionate about the activities they do. It's a lifestyle to them. For example...

hunting
mountain biking
running
off-roading
bird watching
photography
golf
scuba diving
...
...
FPVing

Channel 1
28th June 2016, 06:39 PM
who are you to say such things? Lots of people are passionate about the activities they do. It's a lifestyle to them. For example...

hunting
mountain biking
running
off-roading
bird watching
photography
golf
scuba diving
...
...
FPVing

To the soul is spiritual, not passionate, unless someone kneels beforth the representation of FPV as of his Lord, it is not soulful and if one does he is in my opinion, truly effed up.

Wayne

Håvard Støre
28th June 2016, 06:40 PM
Music
Drawing
Painting
Dansing
Sculpting
...
Everything can be spiritual, and its all equally pointless, but very rewarding. Theres a pastime for
everyone.

Channel 1
28th June 2016, 06:43 PM
Everything can be spiritual, and its all equally pointless, but very rewarding. Theres a pastime for
everyone.

Only if one is G*dless.

Wayne

Håvard Støre
28th June 2016, 07:40 PM
Only if one is G*dless.

Wayne
I don't discuss bronze or iron age bullshit on FPV lab.

IBCrazy
28th June 2016, 11:47 PM
I don't discuss bronze or iron age bullshit on FPV lab.

How about modern age science?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jremlZvNDuk

Apparently Michio Kaku is a super genius... which means he's likely smarter than everyone on this forum. Of course, he's out there... way out there. Out there as in he's past left field.

-Alex

Rfriedman
28th June 2016, 11:52 PM
How about modern age science?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jremlZvNDuk

Apparently Michio Kaku is a super genius... which means he's likely smarter than everyone on this forum. Of course, he's out there... way out there. Out there as in he's past left field.

-Alex
Not as smart as Wayne[emoji14]

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

Roboforcer X2000
29th June 2016, 05:29 AM
he's out there... way out there
Sounds a bit kuku alright, so does all the rest of God theories in the world:)

Sky Soldier
29th June 2016, 10:21 AM
Thanks for sharing Alex now i feel like going back to school LOL. Really makes you wonder

Channel 1
29th June 2016, 11:13 AM
Not as smart as Wayne[emoji14]

I don't know about that, yesterday afternoon we where being treated to a rather nasty thunderstorm and while watching the lightning (a natural phenomena I find to be really cool) I notice a UPS tractor trailer rig stop in front of my home, he hit his horn heralding his arrival and the delivery of my new tower.

So damm the rain and the lightning, I put on a hat and trundle out to the rig, the driver being a wise person is standing in the dry trailer where he shoves a pallet out to me with 4 Rohn 25G, 10 foot tower sections strapped to it and some accessories, the driver gave the pallet another good shove while I gave it a good pull and the pallet dropped to the road, I signed for the shipment and he was on his way.

The pallet was too heavy for me to move so I walked back to the garage got a pair of tin snips walked back out and cut the straps, then one by one I grabbed the sections, hoisted them up on my shoulder and carried them off to the shop, now the driveway from my home to the road is about 350' and after I moved all of the sections and the accessories, it dawned upon me I had just walked about a third of a mile with a 10 foot galvanized steel tower section on my shoulder, while totally soaked, in a thunderstorm, with lightning dancing all around me.

Wayne

elmattbo
29th June 2016, 11:14 AM
How about modern age science?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jremlZvNDuk

Apparently Michio Kaku is a super genius... which means he's likely smarter than everyone on this forum. Of course, he's out there... way out there. Out there as in he's past left field.

-Alex

I followed it all right up until the point he said 'God'!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IBCrazy
29th June 2016, 11:32 AM
I don't know about that, yesterday afternoon we where being treated to a rather nasty thunderstorm and while watching the lightning (a natural phenomena I find to be really cool) I notice a UPS tractor trailer rig stop in front of my home, he hit his horn heralding his arrival and the delivery of my new tower.

So damm the rain and the lightning, I put on a hat and trundle out to the rig, the driver being a wise person is standing in the dry trailer where he shoves a pallet out to me with 4 Rohn 25G, 10 foot tower sections strapped to it and some accessories, the driver gave the pallet another good shove while I gave it a good pull and the pallet dropped to the road, I signed for the shipment and he was on his way.

The pallet was too heavy for me to move so I walked back to the garage got a pair of tin snips walked back out and cut the straps, then one by one I grabbed the sections, hoisted them up on my shoulder and carried them off to the shop, now the driveway from my home to the road is about 350' and after I moved all of the sections and the accessories, it dawned upon me I had just walked about a third of a mile with a 10 foot galvanized steel tower section on my shoulder, while totally soaked, in a thunderstorm, with lightning dancing all around me.

Wayne

Good thing there was no sharp edge pointing skyward or you very well could have been fried.

One thing I want to try soon is a lightning strike generator. The plan is to make a sugar/potassium nitrate powered rocket (I'm too cheap to buy Estes engines) and tie a 30-34 awg wire to it. The other end of the wire will be in the ground. With a little luck, I can launch this up into the thunderstorm and get lightning to strike the sharp end of the wire. I just need to be far away when I set that thing off. I don't need to end up on the Darwin awards.

-Alex

IBCrazy
29th June 2016, 11:35 AM
I followed it all right up until the point he said 'God'!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Would you have stopped if he had said "flying spaghetti monster" instead? It is amazing that when the word "God" is mentioned everyone takes sides. It's like American politics: You have two sides pulling, neither is listening to the other and the truth is nowhere to be found.

-Alex

elmattbo
29th June 2016, 01:41 PM
Would you have stopped if he had said "flying spaghetti monster" instead? It is amazing that when the word "God" is mentioned everyone takes sides. It's like American politics: You have two sides pulling, neither is listening to the other and the truth is nowhere to be found.

-Alex

To be honest I was being a little facetious! My opinions on religion should have no impact on the lives of anyone else and vice versa. Believe in what you want and be nice to eachother.

Back to FPV racing...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Channel 1
29th June 2016, 01:49 PM
One thing I want to try soon is a lightning strike generator. The plan is to make a sugar/potassium nitrate powered rocket (I'm too cheap to buy Estes engines) and tie a 30-34 awg wire to it. The other end of the wire will be in the ground. With a little luck, I can launch this up into the thunderstorm and get lightning to strike the sharp end of the wire. I just need to be far away when I set that thing off. I don't need to end up on the Darwin awards.

-Alex

The lightning lab students at the University of Florida have been doing that for a while now, they where receiving some funding from EPRI and FP&L and I believe another utility in Tampa, but that may have dried up.

http://www.lightning.ece.ufl.edu/

Basically what they are doing in the early days was launching a rocket as you mentioned and spooling off a reel of wire that was designed for the real early versions of shoulder mounted surface to air missiles, the missile launcher worked by firing the missile and then using RF over the wire from the launcher would be sent course corrections as the operator tracked the target. The wire was steel based which gave it strength and the ability to resist being melted by the exhaust of the missile.

Conversely the wire can be left on earth and towed up by a rocket to where it has lowered the cloud to earth resistance enough to induce a discharge, at the lab they are launched from towers which are grounded through current and potential transformers which are fiber-optically connected back to a control room where the discharges are measured metered and recorded.

They have also successfully induced hits into the grid of a utility simulation to test the effectiveness of various types of distribution surge protectors.

If you do some digging you might be able to find some of that wire on the surplus market for a song.


Good thing there was no sharp edge pointing skyward or you very well could have been fried.

By the way, I find it shocking (pardon the pun) that you as a younger engineer would make such a statement, nowadays most of the younger engineers in lightning protection are sold on spheres, balls and ESE's, claiming they do a better job of attracting lightning, versus the pointed or even blunt Franklin rod.

Sadly for them, as the damage reports and insurance claims are analyzed, that data is showing those newer devices and designs are not working as claimed and in some cases didn't provide anywhere near the cone of protection a standard pointed or blunt (for OSHA) air terminal provides.

Sometimes the old way is the correct way and that matches what you mentioned.

Also have a nice collection of LPS equipment here and have been successfully designing LPS's for communications site for about 20 years now as a side job.


7337673377733787337973380


Wayne

roberto
2nd July 2016, 09:12 AM
sorry guys, I couldn't resist. 73409

Roboforcer X2000
2nd July 2016, 10:00 AM
LOL, spot on here:)

CongoSavanne
2nd July 2016, 10:20 AM
some guys are just better on the sticks than others.

That's what she said!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CdVTCDdEwI

squishy
7th July 2016, 05:28 PM
Would you have stopped if he had said "flying spaghetti monster" instead? It is amazing that when the word "God" is mentioned everyone takes sides. It's like American politics: You have two sides pulling, neither is listening to the other and the truth is nowhere to be found.

-Alex

“...when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.”
― Richard Dawkins

Xaser
7th July 2016, 06:33 PM
finally came around to read the whole post.. well.. here are my two cents:

Your post is very.. dramatic.. almost apocalyptical. You are saying that drone racing is a thread that may destroy our hobby, our community? I don't think so.. how do you destroy something, that is made up of enthusiasts and defined by whatever these enthusiasts make it to be? Racing is a new thing for fpv multicopter pilots, but it sure isn't to the RC car community. Did it destroy them? Not really, in fact many places that put money into it just went bust. Was RC car racing a threat to the rc car hobby as drone racing is to FPV now? Certainly not, because back then the medial attention has simply been not there.

If we have to threat anything from drone racing, its stronger legislation and possibly that the current innovators of the hobby will try to jump on the hype train and make money of the "blithering idiots who don't even know how to solder" ... at least I think this is what you are saying. But if there is need for innovation and no innovation being supplied, the hobby simply with throw out new people out there who are willing to make that effort, regardless of the $bling$.

Or is racing destroying the hobby because it puts a goal where there shouldn't be one? Well again I'd say no, because to the people who already were active in this hobby before this drone racing stuff came along, such a goal was never appealing anyway. People strive for the longest range, for the fastest quad, for the best footage for the sickest flips, for the immersion of flight that has sparked this hobby for the very first time.

And if even die hard pro's like Charpu and Chad are saying drone racing is going the wrong direction, then it WILL fail. we can only hope that these events will stay as a community meeting, to exchange ideas, to bring the enthusiasts together.

I guess long story short: I wouldn't worry too much.

CongoSavanne
26th July 2016, 12:31 PM
My opinions on religion should have no impact on the lives of anyone else and vice versa.


Damn shame that most of the World does not agree (https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/).

Håvard Støre
26th July 2016, 03:12 PM
SSSShhhhh. Its our elephant in the room. We are not supposed to talk about it. Anyone pointing out who commits rape, incest, spouse abuse and murder on a massive scale risks being branded nazi, racist, islamophobe etc. In Germany its become real bad. People are being arrested for voicing their concerns. The regressive left have forced censorship over youtube and other social media.

In America there is white guilt. In Germany there is Nazi guilt. Both are pathetic.

CongoSavanne
26th July 2016, 07:37 PM
SSSShhhhh. Its our elephant in the room. We are not supposed to talk about it. Anyone pointing out who commits rape, incest, spouse abuse and murder on a massive scale risks being branded nazi, racist, islamophobe etc. In Germany its become real bad. People are being arrested for voicing their concerns. The regressive left have forced censorship over youtube and other social media.

In America there is white guilt. In Germany there is Nazi guilt. Both are pathetic.

If you guys want to purge I would love to come over and help.

Håvard Støre
27th July 2016, 04:46 AM
If you guys want to purge I would love to come over and help.
I assume your joking. Theres been a lot of purging in Europe over the centuries. Last one in former Yugoslavia in the 90s. Scary stuff.

CongoSavanne
28th July 2016, 09:52 PM
I assume your joking. Theres been a lot of purging in Europe over the centuries. Last one in former Yugoslavia in the 90s. Scary stuff.
Sure scary, and the alternative?

Channel 1
7th August 2016, 04:28 PM
It appears based on the comments, yesterdays ESPN's coverage of the Drone Nationals was a technical clusterfluck.

I can only wonder if they brought in a dedicated circuit for backhaul or where they silly enough to try to use 4G?

Oops.

I wonder what todays coverage was like?

Wayne

WDZaphod
8th August 2016, 03:08 AM
Agree with the starting post.
Meeting people, build up a race track in the field, two or three races. Then the people start cross connecting their Goggles to enjoy a wild free style ride of another one. Sure, Race is fun. But when it starts to become FIFA, then it's time to calm down.
Watching Charpu, Metaldanny or Boris B. doing their freestyle is magic. It's dynamic. You need to find "on the fly" your way to go. It's like a desert race without roads compared to the boring NASCAR Circle. I am still wondering if they know how to drive it clockwise.

squishy
8th August 2016, 03:08 PM
Told ya...


73847

Channel 1
8th August 2016, 03:30 PM
Told ya...


73847

I realize it's tough on the guys who wasted their time and money, but at least they got to go back to work today and try to normalize life, how would like to be the guy who's probably just about wrapping up a meeting with the executive board after getting his arse reamed out for spending the companies advertising dollars, on an event that didn't produce even a measureable ROI nor less a profit as a sponsor, a guy who knows he today at around 4:00pm is going to be unemployed for awhile.

Wayne

squishy
8th August 2016, 03:50 PM
I feel little remorse for that guy when he chose that job, and hitched his wagon to that vision...

When someone like me has more vision that he, enough to stay away and remove my name from the entire fiasco, then we have no reason to feel remorse. I even posted this thread as a warning to those who can see it and trace the logic as well. I tried to do so without naming names and organizations. Tons of people lose their jobs because of taking risks that never pan out, cry me a river...it happens every day and it's called capitalism where the ones who make better choices should profit and be more successful than those with empty promises and a little song and dance.

The "hobbyists" who were taken advantage of, the volunteers who worked tirelessly for nothing, all for what? For their "hobby"? Come on...honestly...everyone gets what they deserve, including the guy who thought he could pay his bills by taking their money, that's the result of such risk.

When the former Flight Director of the Drone Nationals (2015), stops and writes a post like this and personally boycotts all drone racing...it's a sign, and I couldn't have given a clearer one. I did so before the Dubai race during rule making for Nationals, I saw this all coming. If you went to the races and had a shitty time, guess what? It's on you, I warned you. If you are a wannabe sponsored pro pilot and you are realizing you will never be, guess what, I warned you. And if you are trying to pay the bills, get a job in "drone Racing" and want to be a player like those you see in the videos and pictures from these events. Don't worry cus if you go out flying by yourself, practice and have fun, YOU ARE BETTER THAN THEM! period...so why the hell would you want to be them? GO fly, go ride, be free from the shit show...GO!! NOW!!

squishy
8th August 2016, 05:00 PM
A glimpse behind the curtain.


You can quote me. This organization needs massive change before Drone Worlds. I was willing to let the issues of last year's slide. But I promised myself I would not stay silent if it happened again. Im just trying to figure out how to say something while not souring sponsors... Constructive Criticism vs Containing. Anyone that says this was a good event is kissing sponsor ass or actually crazy


Yeah, it was a cluster LOL wings were red headed step children


Bad. Very bad. Wings were given 8-10 am to run qualifiers. The judges were not setup and ready until 8:25. By 9:05 we were done qualifying wings


serious shit show



i dont even know where to start



they have lost all credibility with the pilots as competent race organizers





Yep, you were the only one to voice these matters, hope someone will listen now!

flyandride
9th August 2016, 09:28 AM
Drone racing reminds me of hang gliding, which I have been doing for a long time, in that it's really fun to do but doesn't make a good spectator sport.

that_mullan_man
9th August 2016, 09:44 AM
this is the most blind comment I think I've ever seen about quads... ever

I'd love to spend an hour or so picking through the 'article' in question and give multiple counter arguments but the bottom line is this: more people = increase in the availability of these products (more made = cheaper) and more advancement in the technology we use - FPV racing isn't some exclusive club??? "okay 30,000 pilots no more - stop uploading to youtube, no more events and if any of you dare profit from you then we're taking away your imaginary cool kid license."

What happened when football became mainstream? Communities came together, stadiums were built and millions of people flocked to it, some for fun and some because they wanted to be the best at it - is that a problem? should we be limiting people and crushing dreams to stay humble?

as for the comment: "They have created an entire new market of people who want to race and fly but have no idea how to solder" that is unbelievably ignorant - everyone starts somewhere - being snobby about new opportunities and new members will kill this hobby quicker than someone new that has no idea what they're doing.

I can't wait for more publicity - more people will be able to share this hobby; help will be readily available with more people to fly with and the ADVANCEMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY are only accelerating - I personally am excited for more battery life and a HD FPV feed when I fly - as for those "monsters" that make money when they compete or even upload a video to youtube, are you crazy??? Imagine being able to make a living of making and flying multirotors. That sounds like a dream! or is that a bad mindset - should I limit my practise, stop uploading videos and kick out new members of facebook groups etc, due to the fact that they were inspired by a video of a quadcopter moving quick?

Welcome new members, remove any false interpretations of the hobby, help them and help the community grow and get rid of the idea that publicity is a cancer that is going to consume the hobby and destroy it.

quadquestions
9th August 2016, 12:06 PM
I think that the Drone Nationals is heading in one direction which is somewhat of parade, and it always has been, and It is going to become even more off limits to normal pilots and only available to big teams with big sponsorship money. Yes, it's not embracing the fun of flying, and it is grotesquely using pilots and hobbyists to raise big money from sponsors like insurance companies, technical companies, and even consulting firms that have nothing to do with racing drones but "think" it is the future. This money isn't being funneled back to the community, and pilots are paying their way to be there to make the whole thing happen, which IMO should change, but this doesn't mean that Drone Racing is stupid- just the commercialized, perverted, greedy part of it is.

There is still room for fun races and a chance for amateur pilots to conquer and that is through race organizations like multi-gp. The Multi-gp championship is coming up and it will be a much more fun race for most of the pilots involved- and most of the sponsors who really care about this hobby, who innovate, and who pay back the FPV community will be there. TBS, Rotorgeeks, Quadquestions, multi-gp, fatshark, and many others were at the Drone Nationals, but not sponsoring the event for a reason. ;)

Oliver Miami
9th August 2016, 01:54 PM
We can all stop supporting all racing leagues and organizations by not racing in them [...] We do not need those leagues they need us.


Sincerely: Flight Director, US National Drone Racing Championships

Is there not a contradiction here ?

Anyway, he made some good points.

squishy
9th August 2016, 02:23 PM
This money isn't being funneled back to the community, and pilots are paying their way to be there to make the whole thing happen, which IMO should change, but this doesn't mean that Drone Racing is stupid- just the commercialized, perverted, greedy part of it is.


BAM!!!!

Someone gets it!

My article title was to catch your attention, but if you read it, this is exactly what it's saying!

Thank you for putting it so concisely

squishy
9th August 2016, 02:29 PM
Is there not a contradiction here ?

Anyway, he made some good points here.

Very much so. I was the 2015 Flight Director for the Drone Nationals (the very 1st event of it's kind and size). Myself and members of the Flight Club (the one in Sacramento that flies wings, not the website dude who stole our name and made a quad store) were involved in helping with operations at that race, along with many many other volunteers. I was briefly involved in the rule-making process for the 2016 Drone Nationals and saw what was happening from the inside. So I removed myself and my name from all FPV or Drone Racing and have since boycotted anything to do with it. Now I find myself hired by an unrelated industry to help put on a "drone race", forced to use this stupid method to break into new audiences. I will be putting on more of a demo and mock race now, "racing" only in name, but seriously people. If you only knew of the greed, drama and incompetence you would feel this article is not written strongly enough.

I realize there's been a fallout from the 2016 Nationals, pilots feeling bad and constant technical and facilitation issues. I don't view those things as bad, those are details and teething of a holistic issue. A culture issue I have clearly explained for months now.

Håvard Støre
9th August 2016, 02:53 PM
I have seen some of the videos from Squishy, and his comrades, and I can certainly say that its good stuff. Watching them gives me far more pleasure, than watching any race.

CongoSavanne
9th August 2016, 02:54 PM
Drone racing reminds me of hang gliding, which I have been doing for a long time, in that it's really fun to do but doesn't make a good spectator sport.

sometimes it is....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oda4nIo6INU

Håvard Støre
9th August 2016, 03:00 PM
He handled that cluster**** like a champ. I didn't think he was going to be able to deploy his chute. Good times.. LoL.

CongoSavanne
9th August 2016, 07:03 PM
He handled that cluster**** like a champ. I didn't think he was going to be able to deploy his chute. Good times.. LoL.
Yeah... I have an entirely different risk vs reward system than these folks do.

Channel 1
9th August 2016, 07:42 PM
This money isn't being funneled back to the community, and pilots are paying their way to be there to make the whole thing happen, which IMO should change, but this doesn't mean that Drone Racing is stupid- just the commercialized, perverted, greedy part of it is.

Based on the way things went and the failure of the technologies employed, it is my opinion they hammered some serious nails into their own coffin.

According to ESPN (once they got a stream working), the event beat out Senior Softball and that's not something to be proud of, nor will the numbers of such, once recorded by Nielsen be a draw for any serious advertiser base and without advertising it's a fail as a viable business/sport.

Somehow, I have the feeling yesterday, amongst the sponsors some heads rolled over buying into such and if the contracts the organizers entered into with the sponsors are as normally drawn up, the organizers are going to find their sponsorship payments greatly reduced, based on their inability to deliver their projected audience numbers.

And that could seriously effect their ability to pay downstream obligations.

In my personal opinion, if this weekends Drone Nationals was their 'Money Shot," they came up limp and rather short of meeting the goal needed to pull it off.

Wayne