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HugeOne
21st February 2012, 02:24 PM
The long awaited tutorial for my windmill and fan as well as stronger build method is here! (http://www.truerc.net/images/tutorials/Fan%20tutorial.pdf)

Awful lot of work in there. Hard part was to build models of every type and readjust measurements according the new build method.

May the builds begin!

-Hugo

Hans
21st February 2012, 02:29 PM
Although i truly appreciate your time and effort, the link is not working :)



Not Found

The requested URL /forums/\\www.truerc.net/images/tutorials/Fan tutorial.pdf was not found on this server.

HugeOne
21st February 2012, 02:31 PM
Oupss fixed :)

CaliDave
21st February 2012, 03:41 PM
Great tutorial!

Grox
21st February 2012, 04:40 PM
Brilliant tutorial, will definitely be making a few of these soon. Out of interest (and because I've got some spare), how would using MIG wire of 1.2mm diameter affect the performance of these antennas?

Thanks for your work.

Johnny
21st February 2012, 05:27 PM
Awesome! I'll have to outfit my rigs!

jiberjaber
21st February 2012, 05:55 PM
Great tutorial. Is there a reason for no 5.8GHz measurements? Also, how do these perform paired with either a Skew or CL, i.e skew on the RX and a windmill on the TX ?

HugeOne
22nd February 2012, 12:28 AM
Brilliant tutorial, will definitely be making a few of these soon. Out of interest (and because I've got some spare), how would using MIG wire of 1.2mm diameter affect the performance of these antennas?

Thanks for your work.

Bigger wire will shift frequency up, add 1% for your wire.


Great tutorial. Is there a reason for no 5.8GHz measurements? Also, how do these perform paired with either a Skew or CL, i.e skew on the RX and a windmill on the TX ? The new build technique is less forgiving with precision, at 5.8ghz it's a shot in the dark. My original technique is more advised, that's still how I make my 5.8ghz fan. I'll have to update the original tutorial or make a mod to this one...
Anyway, they work excellent with the SPW or CL as long as the polarization is respected (RHCP >> RHCP) I would suggest to put mine on the Rx side because they have higher axial ratio.

-Hugo

Grox
22nd February 2012, 11:29 AM
Just the answer I was hoping for, thanks.

Albuk
9th March 2012, 02:23 PM
Great tutorial! Sadly, my system is 5.8Ghz :(

jimmaplesong
9th March 2012, 02:31 PM
Thanks Bigone... top quality tutorial. I'm gonna go buy some mig wire.

HugeOne
11th March 2012, 01:10 AM
Great tutorial! Sadly, my system is 5.8Ghz :(

If you look at the virevent/turbine tutorial, it have measurements for 5.8

-Hugo

Albuk
11th March 2012, 04:52 AM
Thank you for your reply. Are those measurements the same for Windmill/Fan?

HugeOne
11th March 2012, 08:49 AM
No they are not the same.

Albuk
11th March 2012, 11:46 AM
I thought so. I have already made a Turbine but wasn't happy with the strength of the upper connection. When ever I try to correct the angle of the antenna wires at least one manages to unsolder itself. Your new way of soldering wires from the Windmill/Fan tutorial would solve that, if applicable to 5.8Ghz. Buy the way, your antennas are pieces of art.

Ian Davidson
11th March 2012, 12:50 PM
Very professional build instructions - thanks! :)

volto
11th March 2012, 02:23 PM
Awesome, I've been waiting for this. Thanks Hugo!

ecampos
9th April 2012, 08:44 PM
Here's my windmill (1280mhz) :)

HugeOne
18th April 2012, 12:12 AM
Nice built!
Did you got that match on the first try?

-Hugo

ecampos
18th April 2012, 07:31 AM
Yep ! Got it on the first try :) Can't wait to try them :D

aaron_gx
18th April 2012, 10:54 PM
Which styles would be good for rx, and which for tx, if I were to pick one to build for low range stunt flying?

HugeOne
18th April 2012, 11:51 PM
Windmill on tx (3blades), fan on rx (5blades)

Hugo

aaron_gx
19th April 2012, 08:27 AM
Thanks!

bicycle
5th May 2012, 08:21 PM
I have some advice to give after building 910mhz windmill and fan from this method

-leave the center conductor 1/4" too long while assembling, then trim it before soldering to coax. It's easy to cut shorter but to replace it with a longer one, the top of the antenna has to be taken apart...

-when soldering the elements to the coax shield, cut a small hole in a piece of paper and tape the elements down with the contacts all together and protruding through the hole. Just like when the elements were placed for soldering to the center conductor. This will keep them all together and spaced nicely for an easy join... the alternative is to have six hands to hold everything, plus one for the soldering iron and one for the solder.

-it's quite difficult to make the last bend, due to the angle. I made a jig, but it's a kludge. My advice is to make a good jig.

aaron_gx
12th May 2012, 05:43 PM
stupid question.. what unit of measure are the dimension table in?

HugeOne
12th May 2012, 06:21 PM
Inches :)

bicycle
20th May 2012, 05:25 PM
With my handmade 910mhz windmill/fan (that do not look like the pictures, I am bad at this) I flew 1.6km distance today before my (2.4ghz) radio flipped the script. The video was great. Now to find some elevation. This was near LÚvis, it is very flat.

Ah yes, one more thing. I was at the opposite end of a field and the video cut suddenly. I lifted the goggles to check the antenna (maybe it blew over?) and a spider was making her nest on the antenna, and shorting it. Lesson learned: hot glue the base of the antenna, it will prevent shorting due to spiders.

slowjet
21st May 2012, 03:42 PM
I have .035 (9mm i believe) welding wire. How much should i increase the dimensions?

HugeOne
21st May 2012, 03:59 PM
What frequency is your built?

slowjet
21st May 2012, 05:37 PM
1280, maybe 1240 too unless the 1280 will work on 1240

HugeOne
21st May 2012, 07:52 PM
Keep same measurements, for 1240 adjust dimension by 1280/1240= *1.032 or you may find yourself at 2:1

-Hugo

slowjet
22nd May 2012, 03:03 AM
Thanks Hugo!

slowjet
22nd May 2012, 08:35 PM
Keep same measurements, for 1240 adjust dimension by 1280/1240= *1.032 or you may find yourself at 2:1

-Hugo


Wait I was confused. Are you saying for 1280 with .035 wire use the exact same measurements as .030 wire? And for 1240 multiply by 1.032?

HugeOne
23rd May 2012, 12:25 AM
Exactly

Hugo

Dallibab
24th May 2012, 01:01 PM
Thanks Hugo I built a couple today. real nice easy to follow instructions. :)

Maineiack
24th May 2012, 08:39 PM
building for 1280, is there a benefit by going to an 8-blade on the RX ? compared to the 5 blade?

and if using the 8-blade on the RX what blade should be on the TX,,,

,
I just did the 4 and 8 on your older tutorial,,and had a ball making them,
so i want to do these also,,,

thanks
john

catamar
26th May 2012, 03:48 AM
Just to be sure, I am in 1360 mhz, I will use 0.8 mm wire, and I will use measures like this : 1280/1360 x your measures to obtain mine. Is that right?

HugeOne
26th May 2012, 11:02 AM
Yep,

But you can't something like 2450/1280 without scaling wire diameter as well.

Hugo

Maineiack
26th May 2012, 11:48 AM
My try at the new build,

catamar
26th May 2012, 01:40 PM
Wonderfull construction!. This antennas looks easier to make than SPW, at least the, 3,4,5 blades. I hope their performance are as good as the custom versions of the SPW made by OM. I am going to read more to see the benefits and disadvantages of more blades.

FPVdude
26th May 2012, 06:01 PM
Here is a nooby question... is this better than a cloverleaf? what advantage does it offer over a SPW/cloverleaf combo? what do more blades do? Won't more change the impedance and mess up the SWR? whats the advantage with like 8 blades? Is this the same as a turbine antenna? What is the radiation pattern?
Question rant over :) I might build one because they look nice... thanks :)

HugeOne
26th May 2012, 06:27 PM
It have greater than 0.9 axial ratio, the more the blades the more uniform is the radiation pattern and the axial ratio up to 8 blades.
If you take a virevent and just add blades, swr will be messed up, you need to adjust blades length and pitch for each added blades.

http://www.truerc.net/canada/images/1280tplot.JPG

slowjet
29th May 2012, 02:59 AM
So i used my FAN / Cloverleaf combo the other day and was getting a blackout at about 650ft over a harbor with my tricopter. What should my range be on this on the edge of a city? The signal looked fine then all of a sudden blackout. for about 2 seconds, then it was back. Pretty scarey over water with a multi-rotor.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
207357220625936188957.0004c12739d64957932de

catamar
29th May 2012, 04:34 PM
There is something that I have always missed from the people/ companies who make this antennas: they don't know the limites of their creations, they don't have testers who can take the antennas to the limits, so we could know what to expect from this antennas in real world, not on the paper.
I still remember when they said circular polarization is not for long range. Then I went to 30 km with my helical and cloverleaf. Later, Roberto went to 71 km!( and today to 100 km), with Sircana's antennas.
So I decided to try this antennas made by Hugo. Two days ago I made a windmill and today in the afternoon, I went to fly.
I didn't had time to install my ground station with the skylark tracker, so I used a pinwheel for the receptor and another pinwheel in the plane.
I wanted to know How far I could go this way. I have been flying very low lately ( 4 m of height/ 7,8 km away), so I tried to go as low as possible while going away. The results where amazing, I went to 4,5 km at 9 meters of height, Then 6,5 km at 15 meters of height, and finally, because I had no place to fly low further than that, I went to 10 km at 50 meters of height. The image was complitely perfect at this distance, cristal clear, but I had to come back because of the battery.

SECOND TEST:

Then, after coming back to my flying field I change the pinwheel on the plane for the windmill, and went again to the same places. BUT this time, the results where even more amazing. I was thinking that with the windmill I could never repeat this distances and height. But I was wrong. I was able to fly at 4,5 km at only 6 meters of height, and 6,5 km at only 9 meters!!!!

Even better than with the pinwheel!!

I had to come back at 7 km because the battery I was using this time was smaller than before.( sorry but I could never imagine that this antenna was going to be better than windmill)

I still have pending a range test with the windmill, I also went to 15 km with two pinwheel, but I had no time to try with the windmill. I will, and I will tell you the results.

Congratulations Hugo, you probably know this, but your antenna is just wonderfull.

Now I want to test the turbine as a receptor antenna, and also as a transmiter antenna. I am the kind of person who likes to confirm the information by myself. And I want to see if Windmill is really better than turbine as a transmiter antenna. For some reason I think the turbine is at least as good as the windmill as a transmiter antenna.

We will see, I have to make a turbine.

HugeOne
29th May 2012, 06:04 PM
So i used my FAN / Cloverleaf combo the other day and was getting a blackout at about 650ft over a harbor with my tricopter. What should my range be on this on the edge of a city? The signal looked fine then all of a sudden blackout. for about 2 seconds, then it was back. Pretty scarey over water with a multi-rotor.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=
207357220625936188957.0004c12739d64957932de

Black out mean a loose camera wire or Vtx, lost of RF signal turn into snow, not black image.

Catamar,

Thx for your testing, I take you use a 1.2Ghz link. Before releasing my antenna, I been sure to put them trough good test. Instead of flying for great distance I installed a 15db attenuator on my 500mw Vtx. With only 16mw left, you run into limits much quicker :). However, my limits won't be yours, because my environment/setup is differents, so nobody can rate an antenna in KM. Once I was confident in my products I let users to more testing :). Keep the feedback.

-Hugo

catamar
29th May 2012, 06:18 PM
Hugo, have you tested the turbine as a transmiter antenna?

HugeOne
29th May 2012, 06:26 PM
yeah I did use it a lot, it have a more uniform radition pattern and it show only at the very limit of your link if at all.

Hugo

Maineiack
29th May 2012, 06:40 PM
yeah I did use it a lot, it have a more uniform radition pattern and it show only at the very limit of your link if at all.

Hugo

if using the turbine,
whats a good match on the TX,,
thanks
john

HugeOne
29th May 2012, 08:20 PM
if using the turbine,
whats a good match on the TX,,
thanks
john

Windmill/cloverleaf/SPW

Hugo

slowjet
29th May 2012, 10:11 PM
Black out mean a loose camera wire or Vtx, lost of RF signal turn into snow, not black image

on my homemade goggles black screen is total loss of video signal ie complete static. it happened one other time to me i was flying with my helical in the backyard and clover on the tri and was out about 1200ft on the other side of my house. i dropped too low and my house blocked the signal.

durangoflyer
4th June 2012, 11:32 AM
I want to make a windmill 1280 for my quadcopter as I like the lower profile vs a clover leaf. Would it still work well with a SPW on the Rx?

HugeOne
4th June 2012, 12:05 PM
I want to make a windmill 1280 for my quadcopter as I like the lower profile vs a clover leaf. Would it still work well with a SPW on the Rx?

Absolutely

-Hugo

slowjet
5th June 2012, 12:24 AM
here is a vid made with the ground station with FAN antenna on the RX next to me in the house and a Clover on the vTX on the tricopter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pm62A3e_OQ

durangoflyer
6th June 2012, 03:25 PM
I loved the window flyby.

HugeOne
6th June 2012, 08:36 PM
here is a vid made with the ground station with FAN antenna on the RX next to me in the house and a Clover on the vTX on the tricopter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pm62A3e_OQ

Look good for someone running the Vrx inside, however I don't have the frequency you use?

Hugo

slowjet
7th June 2012, 01:00 AM
Look good for someone running the Vrx inside, however I don't have the frequency you use?

Hugo

1280. I totally destroyed the antenna today. I crashed my cloverleaf (disconnected a lobe so I put the fan on the tricopter and was using the helical on the RX. I was flyinf really fast and hit some branches they caught the antenna and sent it into the rear prop completely destroying it! It has 2 and half lobes still attached, couldn't find the other pieces. ;( Next time I build two!

durangoflyer
7th June 2012, 10:15 AM
I just got started on building a windmill last night and wanted to clarify something before I go any further. The first is the measurements table on the last page. The values for arms are 7,837. What unit of measurement is this?

HugeOne
7th June 2012, 10:17 AM
Inches.

durangoflyer
7th June 2012, 10:29 AM
Ah, so for us folks it would be 7.837 inches.

durangoflyer
7th June 2012, 10:38 AM
I found this to use as a template for the windmill layout.

http://clivebatkin.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/120-degree-template.jpg

durangoflyer
8th June 2012, 10:19 AM
Here is my first pass at making a 1280 windmill. The measuring and bending was not as bad as I thought it would be but the soldering was. I had a tough time getting the legs attached to the coax shield, but was able to pull it off finally. Bench tested to make sure it sent a picture at all, but I'll flight test it on the quad to see how it does at different distances.

HugeOne, thanks again for your time and effort to put this tutorial together.

FinalFrag
9th June 2012, 10:11 AM
Is this the correct wire to make these (and other) antenna's? I want to make a CL/SPW/Fan/Windmill (either 2 of those) and a few sets of sander style uhf antenna's. Will this wire do?

http://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Steel-MIG-Welding-Wire/dp/B007JCQTFW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1339250905&sr=8-2&keywords=0.8mm+welding+wire

HugeOne
9th June 2012, 01:18 PM
You will have a hard time soldering to stainless, get copperclad mig wire.

-Hugo

FinalFrag
9th June 2012, 02:27 PM
This one any good? It's the only one on ebay I can find. Found out that amazon doesn't ship a lot of stuff to EU. So amazon is a no go.

http://www.benl.ebay.be/itm/Mild-Steel-Mig-Wire-Spool-Reel-0-8MM-0-7KG-Welding-Gas-Copper-Coated-SWP-7301-/190587959795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c5fed79f3

HugeOne
9th June 2012, 03:03 PM
Yep, that's good. Why order? Any hardware store sell that.

Hugo

Petronio
10th June 2012, 05:07 PM
Hey Hugo, thanks for the tutorial, I tried yesterday the Windmill for the first time and it turned out ok, not sure how efficient it may be.. Today I built the turbine and honestly I found it easier to make, its veeeery timeconsuming so I can understand the price to aquire these kind of antennas as a lot of time and effort is devoted into one.
I am happy how the turbine turned out, I prebent all wires which makes soldering to the antenna cable pretty easy but just one question, do you use some sort of jig or something to do that part? I am not too sure how to solder then all the legs to the cable, trying to keep all the legs at the same level, some of mine are a bit further down and some a bit higher :mad:. Tried it today mith a multicopter to 1.5km, no prob so far.. Thanks for your work and dedication!

HugeOne
10th June 2012, 11:31 PM
Nice work! The turbine is hard work yes. With good soldering skill one can solder one leg at a time without having the others unsolder, even at 5.8 ;)

Hugo

Petronio
11th June 2012, 02:14 AM
phew, thats more soldering skill than I can offer! I will try to come up with something. Tx!

imagebuff
11th June 2012, 03:26 AM
Hugo,

What is the material used for the white plastic tubing which can be formed by heating? I sure would like to use this for my upcoming fan build.

Thanks
Chris

HugeOne
11th June 2012, 12:09 PM
Chris,

It's styrene.

-Hugo

kloner
11th June 2012, 03:01 PM
what's the best one to run with a crosshair at the GS?

using 1280mhz

Dande
13th June 2012, 08:15 PM
Realy nice tutorial HugeOne! :)

I make a few different antennas, CL, SPW, Helix and your antennas. What I'm struggling a bit with the testign of reach, since they have long range I use the Attenuator to reduce transmit power, but do not know if I can do it this way. I use a-20dB Attenuator on the transmitter and a-10dB + a-6dB at the receiver, I can do it this way? Based on my tests I get a little too long range, 200 feet with-36dB @ 200mW 5.8GHz CL to SPW / Windmill ...
And with 9 turn Helix I get 700 feet, which corresponds to a distance of 8 miles!

Is there something wrong with my setup or is this actually possible?

( settup : VTx-- -20dB Att -- CL --> 200ft --> Windmill- -6dB Att -- -10dB Att -- VRx )

When it sounds to be too good to be true, usually it is...

HugeOne
13th June 2012, 11:23 PM
Installing attenuators on the Vrx tend to overestimate range. Installing too much on the Vtx (over 40db) and your Vrx will pick up RF escaping from the Vtx case/wires over the antenna. Again, overestimating range.

Hugo

Dande
14th June 2012, 06:52 AM
So using attenuators only on the Tx is the best way to go. Can I use them in series, -20dB + -10db to get -30dB?

I try to conduct some tests to see how much difference there is between CL, SPW and your antennas.
By doing ground tests, I can eliminate many variables and determine the strengths and weaknesses of the different antenna.

Is there a good way to distinguish them on?
I know that CL antenna may have a few points around the antenna that reduces the signal.

Many struggle with the fact that they lose the signal completely, even on short distances (300 to 600 ft) with CL to SPW antennas, but may have more than 1 miles maximum range. Are your antennas better for this phenomenon, at 5.8GHz?

How can I avoid this problem?

Thanks
David

HugeOne
14th June 2012, 08:14 PM
Yes, you can stack for 30 db.

CL have a non uniform radiation pattern, however not enough to cause what you are saying, is this with home built antennas?

Hugo

Dande
15th June 2012, 08:08 AM
both yes and no. It also happens with antennas that are made ​​by Alex. I can provoke it with my antennas also at ground test, but it is only when the antennas have the most unfavorable position. I make mostly antennas with a VSWR <1.3 at the intended frequency, and I am extremely accurate when I make antennas.

I have a theory that the blackout caused by the unfortunate placement of the transmitter antenna, but can not say for sure since I have not seen the aircrafts in question.
Is the engine or battery large enough to make the total blackout on such short distances? I know they will create radio shadows, but have not made practical tests on it yet.

(ps. 8 turn helix antenna gave 7.5 miles, and when I could not get farther away to test)

daniel
19th June 2012, 07:25 AM
i have built an Ibcrazy SWR meter found it very helpful to tune a cloverleaf antenna. With your designs, how would you adjust them to improve the SWR?

Thanks,

Daniel

HugeOne
19th June 2012, 08:23 AM
Make the center wire longer than it should, check SWR and keep trimming it until you're on the spot.

-Hugo

daniel
19th June 2012, 09:19 AM
Thanks,

I am already cutting up the wires.

Daniel

durangoflyer
5th July 2012, 04:11 PM
I need one of these on a deep reaper wing I am putting together. This seems to be a better alternative to a clover leaf out on a wing because the profile height is lower and once it is counter sunk into the foam a bit it would be harder to smash it on a flip over impact. Can the windmill be built side fed?

HugeOne
5th July 2012, 04:33 PM
It can be built side fed, not sure of the effect of this on the radiation pattern. CL seem to work with side feed, can't see why the windmill won't work either.

-Hugo

durangoflyer
5th July 2012, 05:55 PM
Could that be an option if I order one from you?

HugeOne
5th July 2012, 07:58 PM
I guess so. You may leave a note when ordering .

Hugo

lucafedechen
6th July 2012, 08:01 PM
hi Hugo...it┤s possible to post the dimensions for the 5.8ghz Fan and windmill?? no matter what method is .. if the turbine or Virevent explained in another forum on how to do with the method of this forum, I'll try to realize them...I built the turbine and is the best antenna I've had in the rx ... congratulations on your work

sorry for the inconvenience and hope for your help

Luis Carlos
Asuncion-Paraguay
SouthAmerica.

FinalFrag
11th August 2012, 08:23 AM
Sorry for bringing up a month old thread here.

But is there news about the 5.8ghz version? I'd like to try the windmill and fan on my 5.8 system...

HugeOne
11th August 2012, 12:57 PM
I haven't researched the tutorials more, in the light of the recent events I'm somewhat glad I didn't. I really hate to say this, but sorry for the DIY builders but last thing I want to see is an IRC windmill/fan.

-Hugo

Maineiack
11th August 2012, 02:38 PM
sorry for my ignorance,
But what does IRC mean?

slowjet
11th August 2012, 03:04 PM
sorry for my ignorance,
But what does IRC mean?

Internet relay chat?

Maineiack
11th August 2012, 03:06 PM
how does that "fit" in his sentence ?

MASHTON1138
11th August 2012, 03:08 PM
HAHA! Think about it guys

FinalFrag
11th August 2012, 07:31 PM
I haven't researched the tutorials more, in the light of the recent events I'm somewhat glad I didn't. I really hate to say this, but sorry for the DIY builders but last thing I want to see is an IRC windmill/fan.

-Hugo

I seem to have missed these recent events, care to be a bit more elaborate?

HugeOne
11th August 2012, 08:47 PM
Well, ImmersionRC recently recently released their "spironet" CP antennas. Nice design with a radome. However it contain a cloverleaf/spw combo. The cloverleaf been designed by Alex and advocate it as his design. I respect that and went the extra mile to design my own antennas. Look like not everybody will do that even if they have deeper pockets and more resources. They still lack knowledge, I will not give them.

Hugo

kenkos68
14th August 2012, 11:13 AM
Hi Hugo,

What is the best SWR or return loss mV (from self built swr meter) I can expect from the Fan or Turbine at 1280 Mhz? I did build a Turbine for 1280 but my calculated SWR was about 1.25. To get it lower, I had to really shorten the center section and got it to about 1.15 calculated. When flying it, I had all kinds of contrast problems and it didn't work well at all. I turned back and put on the Fan that I just purchased from you and video was perfect again. I ask because I also built a Turbine for 5.8 and with your specs, it is really close to swr of 1, AND it works great! I have also built virevents at 5.8 with close to 0 mV return loss and they worked great as well.

Thanks,

-Ken

HugeOne
14th August 2012, 11:55 AM
They can reach SWR of 1.05:1, but 1.25:1 is plenty and should not make any difference on the screen.
Did you cut the center section more than 1/4"?

-Hugo

kenkos68
14th August 2012, 12:30 PM
They can reach SWR of 1.05:1, but 1.25:1 is plenty and should not make any difference on the screen.
Did you cut the center section more than 1/4"?
-Hugo

Yes, to get it down. I know I went to far as it is much shorter than the spec and is center is flexed down. I tried going in smaller increments but must have passed the sweet spot.

HugeOne
14th August 2012, 12:36 PM
That may be that, but from testing a squeezed down antenna still work...

-Hugo

kenkos68
14th August 2012, 12:45 PM
The only other difference was that my wire was 0.035", closer to .9mm diameter. I have never seen my camera go nuts with the contrast. Something else must be going on with my build of the antenna. With the fan, everything was perfect again for several flights. When I get time, I will try it again after picking up some 0.030 mig wire.

StompAE86
15th August 2012, 11:09 AM
Hi Hugo thanx for the awesome tutorial, I couldnt help myself had to have a go tonight at making one of these... the five blade one.. and I dont think it went so well and im trying to figure out why.

I have built about 10 IBC's clovers couple helicals and SPW 's and have never had the Vr of more then 0.08 using Mictronics SWR meter but after testing the antenna its at like 0.23Vr and 0.53Vf which would be a pretty shit SWR and all my measurements and angles are dead on. The Vr decreases when i move my hand so the lobes are too short right? My frequency is 1120 so took the 1080 measurements devided by original freq and multiply by my freq so unless Ive screwed up basic maths (wont be the first time :P ) it should of been dead on. Only thing i can think of is that i blobbed hot glue at the center joins but its not excessive just enough to keep its shape.

Normally I would just pass it off as a screw up but If you wouldnt mind explaining which parts its extra sensitive to I would muchly appreciate it

Cheers

Adam

HugeOne
15th August 2012, 11:17 AM
If you angles are right then the geometry is good. Try another one, but keep the measurements for 1080 and trim the center part bit by bit while testing SWR.

-Hugo

kenkos68
15th August 2012, 12:21 PM
What is strange is that on my test setup, my Fan showed about 0.17Vr . It did go down significantly when my hand was near. However, flying it is fine - not a glitch! I guess an antenna analyzer is the only way to see what is really going on. I am in no way complaining, my Fan gives me the best video I've had yet on my tricopter.

Lemonsorbie
4th September 2012, 08:58 PM
Hi Hugo/all,

Silly question but I just bought and received the following:

http://www.truerc.net/canada/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30_31_37&products_id=203

Which goes where?

3 lobe on the Tx

5 lobe on the Rx

??????

slowjet
5th September 2012, 01:11 AM
Hey hugo, My calipers are only good for about 7". Any chance on getting measurements or formula for lower arm of lobe, side of lobe, and top arm of lobe (outside of bends) lengths individually? (not counting the bends for soldering)

Thank you!

HugeOne
5th September 2012, 01:16 AM
Hi Hugo/all,

Silly question but I just bought and received the following:

http://www.truerc.net/canada/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30_31_37&products_id=203

Which goes where?

3 lobe on the Tx

5 lobe on the Rx

??????

3 lobes on Tx (one lobe face forward)
5 lobe on rx.

Slowjet,

Will get back on that.

-Hugo

bicycle
5th September 2012, 01:50 AM
Slowjet, simple subtraction works here. "1st bend" is the length from the end of the wire to the bend of the top "plane" and "2nd bend" is the length from the end of the wire to the bend of the bottom "plane." So, the element in the top "plane" is of length (Arms - 1st bend) the element in the bottom "plane" is of length (2nd bend) and the length of the elements on the side are (1st bend - 2nd bend).

My vernier calipers are only good for 5.25", what I do is mark the length on a piece of paper measuring twice and cutting to that length.

I have had a lot of trouble with solder joints on the outside breaking, so I stand by the "new method" of bending each filament from a single piece.

slowjet
5th September 2012, 03:02 AM
Slowjet, simple subtraction works here. "1st bend" is the length from the end of the wire to the bend of the top "plane" and "2nd bend" is the length from the end of the wire to the bend of the bottom "plane." So, the element in the top "plane" is of length (Arms - 1st bend) the element in the bottom "plane" is of length (2nd bend) and the length of the elements on the side are (1st bend - 2nd bend).

My vernier calipers are only good for 5.25", what I do is mark the length on a piece of paper measuring twice and cutting to that length.

I do that but I feel like I might be off. ya know? ;)


I have had a lot of trouble with solder joints on the outside breaking, so I stand by the "new method" of bending each filament from a single piece.

I always make mine from a single piece as well. So much stronger.

HugeOne
5th September 2012, 08:00 AM
Slowjet, simple subtraction works here. "1st bend" is the length from the end of the wire to the bend of the top "plane" and "2nd bend" is the length from the end of the wire to the bend of the bottom "plane." So, the element in the top "plane" is of length (Arms - 1st bend) the element in the bottom "plane" is of length (2nd bend) and the length of the elements on the side are (1st bend - 2nd bend).

Exactly, thk bicycle. slowjet use that method you should not be off.

-Hugo

Lemonsorbie
5th September 2012, 07:47 PM
3 lobes on Tx (one lobe face forward)
5 lobe on rx.

Slowjet,

Will get back on that.

-Hugo

Thanks Hugo,

:)

bartwaw
19th September 2012, 06:38 PM
Hi Hugo,
can you post dimensions for Fan at 5,8 GHz ?

learn2turn
26th September 2012, 10:42 PM
I have pretty much the same question about 5.8. That build looks pretty easy in that you can lay everything out flat and get the first joint soldered. I like the putty to hold stuff in position. At least on paper it looks way easier than the designs with the curved lobes. But I would need to build for 5.8 if I do build myself. There was mention earlier in the thread of some other technique for building for 5.8. Is that tutorial around anywhere?

Or for this build are 5.8 are the dims around anywhere?

-l2t

HugeOne
27th September 2012, 12:26 AM
I will do in time, I just need to reorganize my tutorial a bit with some FAQ. They bring too much emails, the most common being "can you give me dimensions for my 0.0XX" wire as I don't have 0.025"
Just be patient guys :)

-Hugo

bartwaw
27th September 2012, 02:28 AM
Hi Hugo,
thats good news. So i'm waiting.
From me there isn't problem with wires with diameter 0,5 or 0,6mm ;)

Thanks
Bartek

webkiller007
11th December 2012, 08:00 AM
I need a Fun and Windmill dimentions too.

Thanks
Igor

harrychit
13th June 2013, 11:48 AM
Awesome antenna and guide.

However, i only have 0.55mm wire. (24swg)

How do i adjust the dimensions for the smaller diameter of wire?
Am right in thinking that the thinner wire shifts the frequency upwards?

Gonna build a fan and turbine for 2510

Thanks!

HugeOne
14th June 2013, 12:15 AM
For .55mm wire make everything 1.5% longer.

-Hugo

harrychit
15th June 2013, 02:43 PM
Thanks very much!

flye
14th July 2013, 10:34 AM
For .55mm wire make everything 1.5% longer.

-Hugo

and for .89?

flye
14th July 2013, 01:39 PM
and for .89?

for1280

HugeOne
14th July 2013, 11:58 PM
for1280

Not enough to make a difference on 1280.

-Hugo

flye
15th July 2013, 09:14 AM
Ok thanks for your help and good tutorial but I have read on old thread for virevent that we need to add 1% for .89 so I have made one with 1% more will it work good?

HugeOne
15th July 2013, 09:33 AM
Yes, on 1280 it is not that picky.

-Hugo

flye
15th July 2013, 09:50 AM
Thanks

flye
15th July 2013, 10:23 AM
Hey Hugo, thanks for the tutorial, I tried yesterday the Windmill for the first time and it turned out ok, not sure how efficient it may be.. Today I built the turbine and honestly I found it easier to make, its veeeery timeconsuming so I can understand the price to aquire these kind of antennas as a lot of time and effort is devoted into one.
I am happy how the turbine turned out, I prebent all wires which makes soldering to the antenna cable pretty easy but just one question, do you use some sort of jig or something to do that part? I am not too sure how to solder then all the legs to the cable, trying to keep all the legs at the same level, some of mine are a bit further down and some a bit higher :mad:. Tried it today mith a multicopter to 1.5km, no prob so far.. Thanks for your work and dedication!

Hi Hugo on these photos from Petronino (post 66) I remark that his cable is rather short less than 6 inches so is it good for a multirotor to get max 2 kms(freznell zone?)

HugeOne
15th July 2013, 01:58 PM
I refrain from going less than 1/2 wave (4"3/4), preferably 3/4 to 1 wave (7-9")
Not mainly for freznell issue but coax starting to resonate affect the antenna's SWR and circularity.

-Hugo

flye
16th July 2013, 08:11 AM
Thanks for explanation I have made some with short cables before to help mounting on a quadcopter but now I keep 6"

Will try my fan and virevent when weather permit

Xerx
1st March 2014, 07:04 PM
Soon done with my first DIY CP antena. Its to late for me to solder on the 7 inch coax, and i need to figure out a goow way to support it above my bixler 2 canopy.
I could always glue a wooden stick in the frame, and then ziptie the oax/antenna on it.

422874228842289

Is this to much solder? if so i could clean it up somewhat using a copper braid.

How wideband is the windmill? I build mine for 1280 (will be measured by a clubmember), but i might have to go down 2-3 channels when theres a few of us up in the air.

HugeOne
1st March 2014, 09:23 PM
Look fine to me. The windmill is narrower band compared to a SPW or CL, one ch either up or down but not two.

-Hugo

Xerx
1st March 2014, 09:30 PM
Alright, ill put together a 1160 tomorrow then.

Is the A length extremely critical? I could barley measure the pieces with my 6 inch digital caliper (unscrewing the stopping screw gave me just enough length for 1280)
For 1160 ill have to do something funky using two calipers. Unless its okay to be within .5 mm, if so ill just use a regular ruler

Any tips on the best way to straighten out MIG wire, doing it by hand takes forever and doesn't end up perfect.

IBCrazy
2nd March 2014, 12:26 AM
Straightening out the wire is not fun. The quick and dirty way to do it is to take a couple of drywall screws and screw them into a wooden board in a zig-zag pattern and pull the wire through it. Then you can straighten the rest by hand.

.5mm is tighter tolerance than you need for this. At 1160MHz, +/-2mm is going to make little difference.

-Alex

HugeOne
2nd March 2014, 12:32 AM
Alex is right, .5mm won't matter a lot also straightening is a pain. When you pull the wire trough the screws or your hand to straighten, hold it with pliers firmly so it does not twist axially.

-Hugo

Xerx
3rd March 2014, 05:22 PM
Finally, this took way longer then i expected.
One set for 1280 and one for 1160 done. Ill get them measured sometime this week.

42382

Now i just have to get that 1280 crosshair built. Unfortunately im out of rg316 with sma connectors, so it will have to wait.


Edit:
Worth mentioning is that on the 1280 fan, i broke of the final 90 degree bend on one lobe. As i had bent it incorrectly, and had to redo the bend.

Are the legs affecting how the antenna performs, or are they just there to make it more durable? It was actually much easier to solder without the 90 degree bend there. All i needed was a little blob of solder on the tip, and it attached nicely to the shield.

Xerx
8th March 2014, 01:57 PM
So, i plan on rebuilding my 1280 windmill that lost a lobe.

Would wrapping the legs with 2-3 turns of .5mm copper wire and then solder, affect the antenna performance?
It would make soldering the legs easier, and much stronger.

HugeOne
8th March 2014, 02:36 PM
It should have little effect, do you access to any test equipment?

Hugo

Xerx
8th March 2014, 02:54 PM
A club member has a VNWA3 (http://sdr-kits.net/VNWA3_Description.html). But he hasnt had the time to check my antennas yet.

Need to get my 1160 set measured, as i was getting horrible range with them. Not sure if it was interference or the antennas/ground station.

But i had bad static, and video dropouts when at at maximum altitude in this video.

I can take some screencaps of the charts once he gets around to measuring them.

The 1280 set seemed to work great, but i never got around to really test them, before i broke of a lobe between flight #3 and #4.

Xerx
8th March 2014, 07:23 PM
Just below 3h of work to get it done.
42711
42710
42709
42706
42707


Top "hub" width
0.141"

From outside of top bend, to top center
2.18" +-0.01

Inside of top bednd, to center hub
2.076" +- 0.01

Between inside of bend 1 and bend 2
2.54-2.62 "

Bend 2 to conductor insulator
3.14" +-0.01

coax length ~7"

Edit: after looking at the pictures i might have to resolder the center, as it for some reason doesn't look quite straight.

Xerx
9th March 2014, 08:10 AM
And here are the measurments,

1160
4274442743

1280
4274642745

They are at the edges of what his tool can measure. So not as accurate as when we measured my moxon. That i need to alter, as its for 413 mhz and not the targeted 440.
42747

HugeOne
10th March 2014, 01:16 PM
Look excellent.

-Hugo

Xerx
24th March 2014, 06:26 AM
How critical is the center wire thickness?
Just broke one of from a gentle bump on the table, and i'm considering wrapping some very thin wire around it. to brace the solder joint.

HugeOne
24th March 2014, 08:10 AM
Not critical if you don't alter the thickness of the whole wire.

Hugo

lucafedechen
8th June 2014, 10:04 AM
Hi...Hugo...Thanks for your great tutorial..
I have 2.3ghz video equipmet, for this the 2440mhz dimentions in the tutorial is suitable or need llitle modification in dimentions for fine tuning? If I use 2440 dimentions can't get some degradation in my antenna gain?? You recommend after finish the antenna paint with liquid electrical tape?? This alter the gain or tuning?
Thank you
Bestregards

HugeOne
8th June 2014, 12:39 PM
You can adjudt dimensions by factor of 2440/2305.
The liquid tape will further lower the freq. A bit, how much, I don't know.

Hugo

lucafedechen
8th June 2014, 03:14 PM
Thank you Hugo.
Regards

ToThePoint
5th August 2014, 12:31 PM
Hello all

Came across this forum by a other way then the forum itself ( some kinda archive ? ).
Anyway i had on my quadcopter stock antenna's that i replaced with CP antenna's.
I made Alex's skew planar antenna ( LHCP ) for 2.4Ghz wifi were the FPV is transmitted with.
Good god that was a real surprise, they improved FPV with more then 400% and still counting because i run out off RC control before FPV is gone.
As i did some research on the net i came across a lot of antenna types so my brain is messed up totally.
The RC is on 5.8Ghz and i made a collinear ( 16 element ) antenna for it because i like to hold on to omni directional for the RC.
Yesterday i made 2 skew planar antenna's ( RHCP ) 5.8Ghz for the RC receiver.
I have to test it out what the range will be now and want to test it against the FAN antenna i yet have to build, on the same day in the same conditions because i noticed that one day is not the other concerning frequency conditions. ( As a HAM radio guy i have some experience with it ).
I came across the tutorial for the FAN antenna and the PDF is already saved.
Still i am way to confused about the measurements.

I am also a model rail roader and what we use to straighten the welding wire is the following method.
Take a few meters wire, put one end in a vise, on the other end bend a hook, put that hook into a drilling machine, hook between the lips and the wire length in the center of the drill machine head, put tension on the wire and let the drill machine rotate you will see that the wire will straighten itself, also its a bit trial and error in the beginning because to few are to many turns will result is some unusable pieces. Also be careful when you release the wire from the drill head. Use a nose needle to hold on the wire as the tension is released, the wire will rotate in the opposite direction and that hook on the drill end has a lot of force behind it.

As this is my first post in this forum and some will state i am a manufacturing guy.
I am not, just a DIY guy with no money.
Also if you are not convinced, the call-sign i hold for 20 years is ON4BDJ.

Greetings
JP

Zangetsu57
9th November 2014, 10:03 PM
Bigger wire will shift frequency up, add 1% for your wire.

The new build technique is less forgiving with precision, at 5.8ghz it's a shot in the dark. My original technique is more advised, that's still how I make my 5.8ghz fan. I'll have to update the original tutorial or make a mod to this one...
Anyway, they work excellent with the SPW or CL as long as the polarization is respected (RHCP >> RHCP) I would suggest to put mine on the Rx side because they have higher axial ratio.

-Hugo

Hello Hugo,

Out of curiosity, do you still recommend the old build technique to fabricate the Fan antenna at 5.8 GHz? If so, did you ever update the tutorial? I've been trying to find the dimensions for a 5.8 GHz (5-lobe) fan using the older build technique, but can't seem to find them.

Thanks for any guidance!

HugeOne
9th November 2014, 11:34 PM
Zangetsu57,

My commercial 5G8 fan are built in similar way than the new tutorial, but with CNC equipments.
Hope you forgive me, but I decided not to publish the 5G8 fan dimensions.

-Hugo

Zangetsu57
10th November 2014, 12:10 AM
Zangetsu57,

My commercial 5G8 fan are built in similar way than the new tutorial, but with CNC equipments.
Hope you forgive me, but I decided not to publish the 5G8 fan dimensions.

-Hugo

No problem - I completely understand your desire to safeguard your intellectual property from those who make cheap, inferior copies. You've already given plenty to the community! I'll probably just go ahead and build a Virevent using the old tutorial. If I feel bored, I might try to model and optimize a "Fan-like" antenna in CST MWS, build one, and see how it works.

SkyPig
8th April 2015, 10:49 AM
Hi HugeOne, if you are still here. Thank you for your tutorial. I've made a half dozen Windmills in 1280 for my mini quads and they have been great. I don't suppose you have dimensions for a 1258 Windmill?

SkyPig
8th April 2015, 01:09 PM
Hi HugeOne, if you are still here. Thank you for your tutorial. I've made a half dozen Windmills in 1280 for my mini quads and they have been great. I don't suppose you have dimensions for a 1258 Windmill?

I think I’ve worked it out, but I’m not a maths wiz. If I use the dimensions of the 1280 Windmill, I would divide 1258 by 1280, which give me 0.92188.

If I multiply the 1280 dimensions by 0.92188, I get -

Arms 7.702
1st bend 5.281
2nd bend 2.927
Center 1.002

Then, as I want to use 1mm wire, I add 1%, I get –

Arms 7.779
1st bend 5.333
2nd bend 2.956
Center 1.012

Does that seem correct?

SecretSpy711
8th April 2015, 02:13 PM
Thats .98 not .92, but you went the wrong way. Take 1280/1258 = 1.017

Lower frequency = larger antenna

SkyPig
8th April 2015, 02:22 PM
Thats .98 not .92, but you went the wrong way. Take 1280/1258 = 1.017

Lower frequency = larger antenna

Ah, thanks for that. Did I mention that I'm not a maths whiz? :)

SkyPig
8th April 2015, 02:33 PM
I just worked it out again, and allowing for the 1mm wire, it works out the same as dimensions for a 1180 antenna......that's is I worked out correctly this time.:rolleyes:

HugeOne
9th April 2015, 11:15 AM
Sorry for being late here, secretspy is right. However, if the antenna work well on 1280, it'll cover 1258 nicely.
A 1280 centered windmill cover approx 1220-1340MHz.

-Hugo

SkyPig
9th April 2015, 11:37 AM
Sorry for being late here, secretspy is right. However, if the antenna work well on 1280, it'll cover 1258 nicely.
A 1280 centered windmill cover approx 1220-1340MHz.

-Hugo

Ha! That's great news as I went ahead and made a couple of 1280 antennas today. I use 1mm wire and they are fairly sturdy and easy to bend back into shape, though I have managed totally mash a few!

david sas
13th October 2017, 05:53 AM
First of all thank you very much hugo for sharing this valuable knoledge. I┤ve been using this antennas since you released the tutorials, together with a 1.3 gatling, but I wanted to do a few more for replacing the existing ones and I can no longer find the tutorials because they are in your older web. Could you share them again please?

Thank you very much.

Regards.

HugeOne
25th October 2017, 03:25 PM
First of all thank you very much hugo for sharing this valuable knoledge. I┤ve been using this antennas since you released the tutorials, together with a 1.3 gatling, but I wanted to do a few more for replacing the existing ones and I can no longer find the tutorials because they are in your older web. Could you share them again please?

Thank you very much.

Regards.

I'm trying to find my tuto. but I'm afraid it's gone with the old website. While I search trough my backup drives, I ask for help of the community, surely someone saved it...

-Hugo

Technoweenie
28th October 2017, 07:25 PM
Are these the ones you are looking for?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iogeolk437cpvcu/Fan%20tutorial.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3zccooqea77wx2u/Vireventtutor.pdf?dl=0

david sas
29th October 2017, 06:23 AM
Thank you very much everybody!!:D

Best Regards!