PDA

View Full Version : Drak 60" info and possible kick start thread



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 12:39 PM
Hey guys here is the place for info and updates on the Drak , AKA Dragon.


I will get some vid links and pix up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6viOq7Xlwg&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6viOq7Xlwg&feature=youtu.be




Pix coming soon, I have contact with a molder here that can do epp in a new style, its fairly expensive , but its even more durable than any other EPP molded that I have ever seen.
This interest me, if it interest you guys I will consider doing a kick starter to bring it to market. Please give me a show of hands if you are possible future Drak flyer.


Like our facebook page too for live Ritewing info,, https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ritewing-RC/227736137236656

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 12:39 PM
Pix and info soon
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/3492d390f3f562673bb88f6a6c37e3bd.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/67a839fdf274145ffb9ba3cbc0a7fa63.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/f270504d33da86b03ac8b2c6f98d1155.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/88ef3e144c1a7961bbbaf8e7e3bbf748.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/22cdd5e7435a49909f676992e091c722.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/ffd1adf0a2ea0890bd79026b37f74d2a.jpg
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/34ce626ec4f746109dfaab8317f66070.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/23/d73dec20c41aa76ac41760dc4242a7e3.jpg

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 12:40 PM
pix and info soon

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 12:41 PM
one more

LVSloper
23rd December 2014, 01:10 PM
I am in, so long as it does not exceed the Z3 price point.

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 01:14 PM
I don't know the price yet, I do know that the epp molds are twice as expensive as epor mold. It will also have 4 inch and possibly 8 inch wing extensions that could make it just below 70 inches in wingspan. Plus it would be crazy durable. If it doesn't pay for itself, I can't produce it. And that means I would only be making them for myself. If I do a Kickstarter, I will keep the prices as low as possible

criccio
23rd December 2014, 01:17 PM
EPP??? I'm watching this space!

wyll
23rd December 2014, 01:22 PM
I am in, so long as it does not exceed the Z3 price point.

ya I am on the same page. If it is not much more than the Z3 I might be interested. It looks much more like my type of plane compared to the Z3.

Pookyjuice
23rd December 2014, 01:23 PM
Count me in for the kick. I lost my EPP quadspar and have the Jones.

Derrick
23rd December 2014, 02:16 PM
I do know that the epp molds are twice as expensive as epor mold.

Music to my ears... count me in for this bird.

I am sure that you have already looked into it... but why not hotwired cores? It won't be as easy to build, but it would get the plane out there for users to fly it and get their feed back before making the mold.

Jake Bullit
23rd December 2014, 02:39 PM
Interested.

Gharddog03
23rd December 2014, 02:44 PM
F, haven't even built my z2 and I want a z3 now this.

Looks sick!

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 02:49 PM
Because I am not getting cancer again breathing epp smoke while cutting a zillion pieces of epp and making no money . I also have a new type of EPP that can be done that's more durable and better than hot wire cut epp, plus you can build it in one day

PDXDave
23rd December 2014, 03:15 PM
Because I am not getting cancer again breathing epp smoke while cutting a zillion pieces of epp ...

Wow -- didn't know those were related! That's certainly reason enough!!!

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 03:40 PM
Had rite kidney removed Dec last year, its your chemical filter.
Not fun!

Hmerly
23rd December 2014, 03:56 PM
Yeah, burning epp is really bad for you. Any foam probably. Having to sit there and cut this stuff is not fun.

I'm interested Chris! keeps us updated and do a vid of the plane itself on the bench =)

vierfuffzig
23rd December 2014, 04:05 PM
honestly i do like epor better, but if there's a new ritewing, i won't have no chance to avoid it... ;)

zaraja
23rd December 2014, 04:08 PM
Chris i can pay you right now if you can ship it to me in a week as you may know i have to travel soon.....

I need it....

chicken sashimi
23rd December 2014, 04:13 PM
You already know i'm in.
This post just subs me to this thread. :D

crashsalot
23rd December 2014, 04:17 PM
Gees, that is some nice bird! I'd like to convert it to a tractor twin engine plane.

Provotroll
23rd December 2014, 04:37 PM
Count me in Chris.

x4FF3
23rd December 2014, 04:45 PM
looks fun, want one!

Rheutan7
23rd December 2014, 05:23 PM
I was saving up to get the Z3, but I'll hold out a bit longer for this. I'm in!

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 05:24 PM
It won't be anytime soon, or at least no way to predict a date as of yet,,, dont hold out ,the z3 rocks

Rheutan7
23rd December 2014, 05:32 PM
Ah, i was afraid of that. Great things take time.

I'll be in your neck of the woods around March. I'll stop by then and get a Z3 from ya. I'll message you first of course, don't want to stop by unexpected.

I'm still in for the Drak though! [emoji1]

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 05:33 PM
Sure thing, stop on by

bourney
23rd December 2014, 05:38 PM
I'm in...... Nice work Chris :-)

zaraja
23rd December 2014, 06:11 PM
Ignored as usual :)

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 06:20 PM
Not ignored, you just seem to not read my post thoroughly, its pretty clear what my plans for the Drak ,, and your asking for one, so intern I feel you are kind of ignoring me.

stevemaller
23rd December 2014, 06:56 PM
Had rite kidney removed Dec last year, its your chemical filter.
Not fun!
Holy s##t. Sending you prayers for healing. Hope you're OK. Your dedication to this biz is crazy nuts amazing. I hope you are taking some time for yourself, too. No business is more important than your health!! :(

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 07:17 PM
Launch vid ,,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldj0nWzy4q4&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ

fireflyer451
23rd December 2014, 07:29 PM
Chris, count me in.

Manzooka
23rd December 2014, 07:47 PM
Totally in. Cuts one hell of a profile. I'm sure I can squeeze another wing in the Jeep somehow.

PabloJaime
23rd December 2014, 08:04 PM
+1 :)

zaraja
23rd December 2014, 08:10 PM
Nah i believe there is something personal going on as you have been rude on all threads for some unknown reason. Anyways i am always been polite and respectful and i will continue to do the same...
I own your ZII and ZIII, and i supported you every where but it seems like you don't respect it at all...

Best of luck ....


Not ignored, you just seem to not read my post thoroughly, its pretty clear what my plans for the Drak ,, and your asking for one, so intern I feel you are kind of ignoring me.

PabloJaime
23rd December 2014, 08:26 PM
Nah i believe there is something personal going on as you have been rude on all threads for some unknown reason. Anyways i am always been polite and respectful and i will continue to do the same...
I own your ZII and ZIII, and i supported you every where but it seems like you don't respect it at all...

Best of luck ....

I think it's a miss understanding issue here and nothing more than that...

Chris says in post#1: "This interest me, if it interest you guys I will consider doing a kick starter to bring it to market. Please give me a show of hands if you are possible future Drak flyer" (so it's not for sale yet)

Chris in Post#6: "If I do a Kickstarter, I will keep the prices as low as possible" (sounds like future time)

In Post#16 you say: "Chris i can pay you right now if you can ship it to me in a week as you may know i have to travel soon....." (but it's not yet for sale...)

And then in Post#24 Chris says: "It won't be anytime soon, or at least no way to predict a date as of yet,,, dont hold out"

So he says from the beginning: It's not yet for sale...

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 08:26 PM
Ok, sorry you feel that way, but why do you ask me to sell you a plane that I said I am not kitting??? Then now you seem to get irritated when I do not answer you telling you that I am selling you a Drak kit.
As far as other times I am some how being rude, I dont know what you talking about.
If you dont like it here then why do you come here??
I have bent over backwards in the past to get you kits because you had to have them asap, I delivered them to you before anyone else... Then you never built it.
I try to help all I can.

I am confused



Nah i believe there is something personal going on as you have been rude on all threads for some unknown reason. Anyways i am always been polite and respectful and i will continue to do the same...
I own your ZII and ZIII, and i supported you every where but it seems like you don't respect it at all...

Best of luck ....

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 08:28 PM
See Pablo is reading, thnx Pablo!
I think it's a miss understanding issue here and nothing more than that...

Chris says in post#1: "This interest me, if it interest you guys I will consider doing a kick starter to bring it to market. Please give me a show of hands if you are possible future Drak flyer" (so it's not for sale yet)

Chris in Post#6: "If I do a Kickstarter, I will keep the prices as low as possible" (sounds like future time)

In Post#16 you say: "Chris i can pay you right now if you can ship it to me in a week as you may know i have to travel soon....." (but it's not yet for sale...)

And then in Post#24 Chris says: "It won't be anytime soon, or at least no way to predict a date as of yet,,, dont hold out"

So he says from the beginning: It's not yet for sale...

jmisuraca
23rd December 2014, 08:52 PM
Here is a shot of it in the air. I just love the way it resembles a klingon bird of prey.

zaraja
23rd December 2014, 08:53 PM
I never ask you to sell Spade 70 as a kit after you told me that that you are not selling it as a kit. Infact i asked for any wing from 60 to 70 inch range... I am irritated? read your post again!!

I bought your wing before even looking at it which is a proof that i trust and love your products so much but you missed it. What do you think i like to spend money in buying stuff and just keep it? I don't like building planes or i bought your wing to hang it on the wall in my room?

I am not here to discuss my personal issues but now feel necessary to explain a bit.
I had my first baby couple of months ago around the same time i bought your wing. My wife had a Cesarian section so she was in hospital for 3 days. She got discharged and we were exceited to reach home ASAP with our baby.. During our absence someone break into my house and didn't left any thing at my home. I was in a hotel for couple of weeks because it didn't have any place to live. Now i with my family have been stocked by some mother ****ers and i am forced to leave the country.. But i was still interested to get your wing as might not be able to buy it from where i am going..
That was my mistake...
The only reason i am here is because of Ritewing... :) nothing else.


Ok, sorry you feel that way, but why do you ask me to sell you a plane that I said I am not kitting??? Then now you seem to get irritated when I do not answer you telling you that I am selling you a Drak kit.
As far as other times I am some how being rude, I dont know what you talking about.
If you dont like it here then why do you come here??
I have bent over backwards in the past to get you kits because you had to have them asap, I delivered them to you before anyone else... Then you never built it.
I try to help all I can.

I am confused

ritewing
23rd December 2014, 08:56 PM
Then let's have fun in here, I don't come here to disapoint

MikeDPP
23rd December 2014, 10:22 PM
It is very common for the written word to misunderstood. It is also common to jump into the middle of a thread without reading everything carefully. There is no ill will intended. We are all here for the passion of flight. If successful, I am sure Ritewing will get one of these into everyone's hands as soon as possible.

wyll
23rd December 2014, 10:37 PM
This hole issue aside ( I hope it is over) I hope you are doing OK. That sounds like a horrible situation. First being robbed well having your first baby and now having to leave the country because you are being stocked. I hope you do OK, I would be super pissed and scared shirtless in both of those situations.


I never ask you to sell Spade 70 as a kit after you told me that that you are not selling it as a kit. Infact i asked for any wing from 60 to 70 inch range... I am irritated? read your post again!!

I bought your wing before even looking at it which is a proof that i trust and love your products so much but you missed it. What do you think i like to spend money in buying stuff and just keep it? I don't like building planes or i bought your wing to hang it on the wall in my room?

I am not here to discuss my personal issues but now feel necessary to explain a bit.
I had my first baby couple of months ago around the same time i bought your wing. My wife had a Cesarian section so she was in hospital for 3 days. She got discharged and we were exceited to reach home ASAP with our baby.. During our absence someone break into my house and didn't left any thing at my home. I was in a hotel for couple of weeks because it didn't have any place to live. Now i with my family have been stocked by some mother ****ers and i am forced to leave the country.. But i was still interested to get your wing as might not be able to buy it from where i am going..
That was my mistake...
The only reason i am here is because of Ritewing... :) nothing else.

kev.au
23rd December 2014, 11:15 PM
Appearance alone I'd buy one, sign me up for sure.

crashsalot
24th December 2014, 12:07 AM
Looking at the pictures again and again.... I gotta have one! Count me in, Chris.

afishindouban
24th December 2014, 12:22 AM
Here smells burned :) relax friends, we spend time here for having fun.

Chris, you friend from Colombia send u regards. even I do not run out of ZIII kits bought from you this year( don't be upset,OK ? Lololo), I still have strong interesting with this new bird.

Let me ask you some technical questions. This is a foward-swept wing right? Not so common to see this design in hobby market. How many degree it swept forward? Forward swept has many advantanges, maybe It will be a long range ritewing option. You know the disadvantage for this structure is the wing structure strength, so did you make test for fast flight? My ZIII goes to 30-35m/s, that supper fast :) with this airfoil, the strength is still trustable ? Maybe that is the reason you are talking about using a new EPP? Can you give us more detail about the material which you mention it is much more expensics.

afishindouban
24th December 2014, 12:32 AM
Chris, especially wing tip extension part, strengh enough?

I like long rang, high efficient, endurance, so count me in with the 70" version. When you will publish your kickstart?

serac
24th December 2014, 12:35 AM
Chris, I'd be very interested to hear how it feels in the air vs the Z3.

The Z3 is very impressive, but the videos of this Drak blew me away.

If you do a Kickstarter, I would be highly interested.

afishindouban
24th December 2014, 12:46 AM
Chris, I'd be very interested to hear how it feels in the air vs the Z3.

The Z3 is very impressive, but the videos of this Drak blew me away.

If you do a Kickstarter, I would be highly interested.

Forward swept never wing tip stall. So it will have lower stall speed. More efficient lift area. Google it ;) and also I guess it will make it more easy to arrange CG than ZIII. I feel the front bay of ZIII has little wasted space. If put battery there, it will be easy nose heavy.

serac
24th December 2014, 12:54 AM
I'm more interested in the qualitative aspects of how it feels vs the Z3, not the technical or theoretical aspects of the wing shape.

Black Top
24th December 2014, 03:10 AM
Looks sweet

Majki
24th December 2014, 06:42 AM
The plane looks amazing. Count me in for the kickstarter :)

AtariJoe
24th December 2014, 08:16 AM
Subbed and backed.

Mcrock
24th December 2014, 05:57 PM
I am in for sure on a 70 inch version but would like to see specifically moulded recesses for the Ruby AP slight lower wing bump for Airspeed sensor and tube.

Would need to include correct cable lengths etc.. cable slots for completeness..
Other option is also Pixhawke or Fixhawke but Ruby is top of the list as Jim is moving more into this area.
Model finished with 3d printed or moulded vtx and rx bays and leaning towards the the Fatshark TX range because they now have the 2.4 and 5.8 and hopefully soon will have a 1.3 and 1.2 version.
High quality kit with quality gear from release.

My pledge now would be up to 550 plus power pack price US with and funds would be available around February March so if we are talking seriously guys let's put up estimated .

Just a note on foward wings .. plus plus design as the Nurf has the same flying performance.. Spector etc but closer to the Nurf from looking at video Chris posted.

Go for it Chris.. ++++
M

ritewing
24th December 2014, 06:36 PM
The Drak will be apx 60" WS , it will also have wing extensions that could take it up to 66 or so.
I have designed and flown many FS type wings over the years, some fly good, some do not.
The rearward swept part of this design really make a huge difference, getting that ratio rite with the correct ratios and sweep of the outer wings is what really takes this to a whole new level. The verts keep the flow so concentrated in the perfect areas.
I also have the control surfaces sized and tuned to make the thing fly with crisp, balanced. and forgiving chariteristics .
It is such a great flying plane that it just blows my mind.
I have some hand launch vids loading now, they will surprise you.

Mcrock
24th December 2014, 07:27 PM
Yes 60 inches and extensions. . I can work with that for sure..

Thanks Chris

Merry Xmas

Danr_657
25th December 2014, 12:45 AM
Interested!!! need to replace a ZII that had 3 to many crashes. Will probably go the Z3 route while I wait but this thing looks sick!

ritewing
25th December 2014, 02:05 AM
Here is three type of launches I tried today .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJuqAXcUgGA&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_CjGVV9IpE&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYuLId6LBKU&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ldj0nWzy4q4&index=4&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ

afishindouban
25th December 2014, 02:10 AM
The Drak will be apx 60" WS , it will also have wing extensions that could take it up to 66 or so.
I have designed and flown many FS type wings over the years, some fly good, some do not.
The rearward swept part of this design really make a huge difference, getting that ratio rite with the correct ratios and sweep of the outer wings is what really takes this to a whole new level. The verts keep the flow so concentrated in the perfect areas.
I also have the control surfaces sized and tuned to make the thing fly with crisp, balanced. and forgiving chariteristics .
It is such a great flying plane that it just blows my mind.
I have some hand launch vids loading now, they will surprise you.

Chris, how different is the new EPP you plan to use? That make the price different, Right? When will you kick it started? My credit card is ready.

afishindouban
25th December 2014, 02:15 AM
Here is three type of launches I tried today .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJuqAXcUgGA&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_CjGVV9IpE&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYuLId6LBKU&list=UUeLLvbImyOXTiM-cEafRuHQ

Amazing video, so easy to launch. Chris, what is the total weight of the airplane in these video ?

ritewing
25th December 2014, 02:16 AM
I will need to get mold price and unit price together before a kick start could be done. The cost of the epp mold is definitely higher.

ritewing
25th December 2014, 02:20 AM
I will get you some weights tomorrow, in the launch vids it was flying a 7100 4s, we also use a 4s 10000 that is 11 oz heavier than the 7100, it seems to handle it no prob at all.

Danr_657
25th December 2014, 03:00 AM
Those launches are awesome

gnrc
25th December 2014, 05:20 PM
Looks great. I am in.

Blizzard1287
26th December 2014, 12:41 AM
subbed and interested. Count me down for a kit

epic4me
26th December 2014, 02:06 AM
Chris, by the size of the wing should be a rtf ?? Or a kit? I want one also

aeronca46
26th December 2014, 04:15 AM
I am in...

Red Dog NZ
26th December 2014, 09:13 AM
Oh for gawds sake. Of course I'm in. Bloody amazing products. :) Shall wait patiently for the goodness to hit production. :)

Twawsi
27th December 2014, 05:51 AM
I'm down with this for sure! (says the guy that's been dark for a year)

LKTRSMG
27th December 2014, 07:29 AM
Looks awesome, I'm in !

zozolione
27th December 2014, 08:16 AM
Looks Great, one more!

c5galaxy engineer
27th December 2014, 11:41 AM
I'm still flying a ZII and I'm starting to feel like one of those third world countries Air Force that still flies F-104's or the like. I suppose it's time ever to upgrade. Count me in

ritewing
27th December 2014, 01:13 PM
Love it guys, on this project we will all need to push it to make it come to fruition.
EPP is so crazy expensive in a mold this size, there is a reason why you don't see any planes this big being made from any mfg.
I will keep the info coming.

mashednz
27th December 2014, 01:29 PM
I'm certainly interested. I haven't got my Z3 flying yet but this looks great.

stevemaller
27th December 2014, 08:46 PM
Chris, do you plan to build the Drak so that it'll break down like the Z3S for transport?
That's an awesome feature, and from the looks of your design the Z3S didn't sacrifice any weight or strength.

ritewing
27th December 2014, 10:41 PM
Hi Steve, for sure it will be full breakdown exactly like the z3 , that is the way it is built now,

route81
28th December 2014, 08:33 AM
Ho Ho! I' m on this one too!
Looks great and speed range seems very wide.
Reminds me of the aerodynamic config of a Funjet, which is great to fly. ( Provided there's no poles in the roundabouts...)
Would be an "hybrid" EPP/EPO kit make sense as a cost efficient start up?
Like EPP crash absorbing fuse and cheaper EPO wings you can dispose of if too damaged ?
Cheers,
J.

his dudeness
28th December 2014, 04:19 PM
How exactly does it compare to the z3? From what i've read i understand that it has a lower stall speed and is perhaps more efficient because it is 60" instead of 47".
How is the cruising speed affected? How does it benefit from using EPP instead of EPO?


I really wanted to get a z3 but perhaps now i might kickstart this instead.

fireflyer451
28th December 2014, 11:16 PM
It's a beautiful thing

jmisuraca
28th December 2014, 11:21 PM
I went by the Ritewing shop today and lo-and-behold Chris was cutting Drak60 frames. I seen about 10 or 12 frames. Chris told me that he was going to make a few kits for some friends. I'm sure all those frames are spoken for. As for the rest of us,,, we will have to wait. Here are a few pictures of the unfinished frames. I did get Chris to for a flight. I will have to upload that as well. And for anyone who is wondering he is flying old-school with no flight system (Battery - RX - Servos).

jmisuraca
28th December 2014, 11:46 PM
Here is the flight from today.


http://youtu.be/ZIluYxbE--k

plumbrr
28th December 2014, 11:59 PM
Im keen. Looks very smooth

gobigdale
29th December 2014, 12:16 AM
Very cool, love how it just slows down. Looks like you could land that thing anywhere!

volto
29th December 2014, 01:14 AM
Awesome, looks like a Klingon Bird of Prey, sorry if someone already said that, didn't read the thread.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140218230735/walkingdead/images/c/c4/Didn't_read_lol.png

helidoc25
29th December 2014, 01:33 AM
ya I am on the same page. If it is not much more than the Z3 I might be interested. It looks much more like my type of plane compared to the Z3.
Its alot bigger plane made from molded EPP, I would understand if the price was higher. Do it up chris! Its beautiful!

bmsweb
29th December 2014, 02:13 AM
Wow, I must say I really like the look of this thing!! Nice work

Jrd
29th December 2014, 02:30 AM
Hi Steve, for sure it will be full breakdown exactly like the z3 , that is the way it is built now,

Hi Chris, this looks great. Is there any chance of building such a thing in 40", that is rather TBS Caipirinha class plane? (May be even better for transport and less expensive material.)

ritewing
29th December 2014, 02:37 AM
I have been contemplating that. Its just a lot of money for something that doesn't sell for a good price point. I will keep you in loop.

Jrd
29th December 2014, 02:53 AM
That would be really cool. No need for folding mechanism -> even more durable, more portable and less expensive, so more people will buy it :-)

Hmerly
29th December 2014, 12:19 PM
A smaller option would be interesting. No need for breakdown so it'd be easier to build and easier for you to just cut instead of molding. Just get somebody else to cut the foam ;)

ritewing
29th December 2014, 12:23 PM
Small planes are just as much work or more than the larger planes to cut. Clearances are tight, and small parts are harder to cut with precision.

Hmerly
29th December 2014, 12:34 PM
Nice, wish I lived nearby. Would love to visit his shop and see what he's cooking up. The Drak60 frames look fantastic.

I would love to do a Star Trek / klingon design. Be cool to see a bird of prey flying around


I went by the Ritewing shop today and lo-and-behold Chris was cutting Drak60 frames. I seen about 10 or 12 frames. Chris told me that he was going to make a few kits for some friends. I'm sure all those frames are spoken for. As for the rest of us,,, we will have to wait. Here are a few pictures of the unfinished frames. I did get Chris to for a flight. I will have to upload that as well. And for anyone who is wondering he is flying old-school with no flight system (Battery - RX - Servos).

Twawsi
30th December 2014, 04:53 AM
The Drak (and the ZIII) are renewing my passion for flying.

btw, "I'm IN!"

Mobster
30th December 2014, 01:45 PM
Drak looks great. I'm in.

billy_boy_2010
1st January 2015, 02:57 PM
Wow this looks great

How does this compare and contrast to the Z3?

Presumably it must have some weaknesses as well as strengths over the Z3?

ritewing
1st January 2015, 03:33 PM
I don't see any weaknesses whatsoever , more info and videos will be coming soon.

imagebuff
1st January 2015, 07:11 PM
I'm in.

DennisFrie
1st January 2015, 07:14 PM
Depending on price compared to Z3, I'm certainly interested too. Having a doable FPV-platform that can be easily transported and take some beatings, would be awesome.

billy_boy_2010
2nd January 2015, 11:29 AM
I don't see any weaknesses whatsoever , more info and videos will be coming soon.

Really?

So just pros/strengths/advantages only?

Will look forward to the extra info but surely the advantages come at some kind of a trade off ;)

chicken sashimi
2nd January 2015, 11:43 AM
Keep the videos coming CK! This thing looks amazing!

Can't wait to start designing some custom decal sets for this thing!!

ritewing
2nd January 2015, 12:11 PM
If you want to come test fly the Drak 60 and Z3 47 you can. Then you can compare.

aaron_gx
2nd January 2015, 05:46 PM
Gonna be killer.

Majki
2nd January 2015, 06:00 PM
Hi Chris, I keep on thinking how you came to the name "Drak". In Czech and Slovak that means a Dragon. It is a cool name anyhow, but I keep on thinking if there is some link or it is just my wishful thinking. :)

ritewing
3rd January 2015, 12:05 AM
That's the name Dragon, AKA Drak or Draken. You are 100% correct.

lowtek
3rd January 2015, 08:46 AM
I'm in. Any pics of the equipment bay?

ritewing
3rd January 2015, 02:10 PM
Here are a few of the prototype 60 we are rigging wirh fpv gear and ruby.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/03/0b98c128e4d68f5f7c3165bba000033f.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/03/5f8d4b775a4e297af98226d084f54146.jpg

hjscm
3rd January 2015, 04:03 PM
oh man can't wait for the kickstarter thread to come live. i want one badly. looks great

ritewing
3rd January 2015, 04:08 PM
I am jigging up another now , I gave it a tad more wingspan , the tweaked the spar location to help get more gear on CG. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/03/eeb4acb6aabc64e27e87031ca772b72b.jpg

c5galaxy engineer
3rd January 2015, 08:07 PM
Airplane larva.........no.....Dragon Larva!!

jmisuraca
4th January 2015, 05:44 AM
Airplane larva.........no.....Dragon Larva!!

Dragon Larva. Good one.

Here is that same Larva a little while later.

56706

represent
4th January 2015, 02:31 PM
I'm in. Kickstart that Kickstarter!

afishindouban
6th January 2015, 02:04 AM
Hello Chris, the center bay part is the same size of ZIII or bigger?

ritewing
6th January 2015, 02:13 AM
Much bigger, The fuse is 5' wide OD and about 3'' inside wide, its also 2 1/2'' longer than my 66 spade fuse was.
I am working on the next 3 Draken to get my usual tweaks done.
There are few things I am working out with spar location, this will make it have crazy usability for gear and ease of Cg attainment .

epic4me
6th January 2015, 02:24 AM
Wow Chris! Those Draks are really nice!!

ritewing
6th January 2015, 02:28 AM
And boy do they perform! Here some pictures of my last week's worth of Labor's on these beasts.
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/05/487f7a556855f8c7dc3720ca5e5e7af3.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/05/80990aec2aea1652befb5c22e49c61fe.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/05/f29ba4f863ca2c0cc99a0edf7159b949.jpg

Hmerly
6th January 2015, 02:59 AM
Ack, send me one!

All kidding aside, its great to get an insight into how you work. Must've taken a ton of time to cut all these.

ritewing
6th January 2015, 03:05 AM
I have 2 left, I am selling them fully sparred up with all the slips spar in, you just have to do is finish the build. All the major hard stuff is done. I have about 30 hours into each one once its sparred. I will let these last ones go for $500 each like this. If anyone is interested speak up fast.

ritewing
6th January 2015, 12:10 PM
Here is some of the sparring work that goes into these non molded Draken.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/06/5445fe7a9ea24e7132d00ae470822cd6.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/01/06/051370da771785121fe9753808f269a8.jpg

Derrick
6th January 2015, 12:39 PM
Router or hotwire gouge?

ritewing
6th January 2015, 12:40 PM
Neither

Derrick
6th January 2015, 12:57 PM
Neither

lol... OK.

in any case... one of these (http://www.zoro.com/i/G7452557/?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&gclid=Cj0KEQiArK6lBRC5-_jv48uxgrgBEiQAuxdZ9em7iajHXSo16zpKVPc5KzoXdNCeVyN Vvwehr9IG4n8aAoDS8P8HAQ) in a router with a straight edge to run the router against would make those channels with ease.

ritewing
6th January 2015, 01:28 PM
That is ten times more complicated than it needs to be

Derrick
6th January 2015, 02:10 PM
perhaps... but it is the tooling that I have, as well as a tried and true method to get a straight channel with little effort/thought process on my part. Sometimes the best way as then I can't "overthink" it.


D

ritewing
6th January 2015, 02:13 PM
Lol, that's crazy over thinking it, I could spar up 4 while your setting it up , then you have a mess too.

Derrick
6th January 2015, 02:18 PM
Lol, that's crazy over thinking it, I could spar up 4 while your setting it up , then you have a mess too.

Unless you are offering up tips/tricks... then I guess you will be doing 4 to my one.

D

afishindouban
6th January 2015, 09:38 PM
Much bigger, The fuse is 5' wide OD and about 3'' inside wide, its also 2 1/2'' longer than my 66 spade fuse was.
I am working on the next 3 Draken to get my usual tweaks done.
There are few things I am working out with spar location, this will make it have crazy usability for gear and ease of Cg attainment .

sounds great. have schedule for kickstarter now ?

kross1
6th January 2015, 10:18 PM
*want* (Not sure about the important part though, *can afford*)

ritewing
6th January 2015, 10:29 PM
We are working on the kickstarter video , this needs to be done correctly to show who we are and what we are about.
This will help the kickstarter get the funding it needs to get you guys what you want.
Otherwise it mite not go as good as it can.

Hmerly
6th January 2015, 10:59 PM
At one time I'd pay right away but with kids now there's no way I could drop that much on foam. Take your time getting the kickstarter right. A poor launch can easily be too hard to recover from.

ritewing
6th January 2015, 11:05 PM
Epor is much more hobby grade foam and is much cheaper.
EPP is crazy expensive but would be awesome.
So I guess it all depends on if you want a plane that you could fix and fly for years, or one that could fly awesome for ever if you never crash.
Epor could be done much faster and much cheaper.
I do love how epor flys and builds
What are your thoughts guys?

kross1
6th January 2015, 11:14 PM
What kind of cost difference, like 1:2, 1:4? More durable is always better, BUT, if significantly more expensive will rule out a large percentage of buyers.

I like less-expensive personally, so vote EPOR, if you don't want to offer both options.

ritewing
6th January 2015, 11:16 PM
Doing both would not be an option, that would be about 100 k in mold cost before you even ordered foam or parts.

Rheutan7
6th January 2015, 11:57 PM
I'm no expert by any means. I can, however, comment on how durable my Skywalker Condor was. It's made of epo. I don't have any experience with epp though. I don't think that you'd really be gaining much by going with the more expensive, more durable foam. This is taking into account how well it flies, and the skill of the people who would most likely buy it. I don't think you really need an indestructible plane. Maybe on something smaller that would be used for more proximity/combat style flying. In my opinion, probably not even worth the standard 2 cents, it's that this beast will be great with epo to keep it in a reachable price range.

Mcrock
7th January 2015, 12:11 AM
I think the purpose of this aircraft is to carry high end electronics and with safety but also can be your top end FPV machine and costs reduce for the user if the aircraft can do many more hours with a better more resilient materials and from experience EPP to date has no match.
One could end up adding 3000 dollar cameras and the likes so those users would expect to see the benefits from a longer life airframe.
This is going to be the airframe that challenges most current high end designs and could even have a rotory gimble with down looking camera's.
Flys in higher wind area's with long flight times.
My preference would be EPP
M

ritewing
7th January 2015, 12:23 AM
I agree !!
I think the purpose of this aircraft is to carry high end electronics and with safety but also can be your top end FPV machine and costs reduce for the user if the aircraft can do many more hours with a better more resilient materials and from experience EPP to date has no match.
One could end up adding 3000 dollar cameras and the likes so those users would expect to see the benefits from a longer life airframe.
This is going to be the airframe that challenges most current high end designs and could even have a rotory gimble with down looking camera's.
Flys in higher wind area's with long flight times.
My preference would be EPP
M

fireflyer451
7th January 2015, 12:56 AM
Mcrock said it well and I agree. Making an airframe with this increased durability and lifespan will put it out front. EPP all the way

HFMan
7th January 2015, 01:37 AM
I have built both- to me EPOR paints up MUCH nicer than EPP, but perhaps molded EPP would work out better. It seemed to me that EPP is just a sponge and soaks up a lot of the paint and you can't get the stunning finish that EPO provides. I also feel that EPO is easier to laminate (especially if it has a good paint on it). I was stunned at the results I got with my Z3- two VERY light coats and it simply looks gorgeous- especially after laminating it. Hard to get that look with EPP.

That said, I do feel EPP is far more durable- it can take some hard licks and is often quite easy to repair. EPO can self destruct with the right crash.

I also feel EPOR is stiffer and flexes far less. For a given wing, spars, and lam- EPOR always feels like a more rigid build. EPP always feels on the mushy side to me.

Tough call...

Mcrock
7th January 2015, 01:53 AM
Their is a new product from Foam Tac especially for EPP that should give you the smartest paint job should you choose to use it at the lightest weight possible..
Check it out..
M

Stringer
7th January 2015, 04:18 AM
I think the purpose of this aircraft is to carry high end electronics and with safety but also can be your top end FPV machine and costs reduce for the user if the aircraft can do many more hours with a better more resilient materials and from experience EPP to date has no match.
One could end up adding 3000 dollar cameras and the likes so those users would expect to see the benefits from a longer life airframe.
This is going to be the airframe that challenges most current high end designs and could even have a rotory gimble with down looking camera's.
Flys in higher wind area's with long flight times.
My preference would be EPP
M



This is probably true... but, let's be realistic, how many here will end up putting high-end stuff on their planes. Heck, how many are currently putting high-end stuff now? I don't think there are enough to a point that makes an expensive plane viable for ritewing to make and sell. It's not just about durability that you need to worry when flying. You could lose a high-end plane not because it broke on a crash, but just because you couldn't find it, or it went down in water, or other places where you have no easy access to, or a mid-air brownout, etc. So, the question is, is the increase in durability really worth the significant increase in cost for the hobbyist considering all the other things that can go wrong?


With that, my view is that EPP is okay if it'll be within 130% of the typical price point of a similarly sized Z2/Z3, otherwise I'd go for EPO.

Derrick
7th January 2015, 09:31 AM
I have seen a couple ZII crashes now, granted one of them was into the side of an excavator boom at 75mph, the other was a vertical dive into the ground from about 100ft. In both cases the planes were very well built with top notch electronics (built for speed). In both instances the planes were no longer 100mph planes. One week after the ZII dove into the ground a similar sized EPP plane experienced a build error (ESC was to small) and replicated the ZII crash with almost no damage. Couple this with my own experiences with EPP planes (Widowmakers, Popwings, Chimera, Deep Reaper, and Quadspar)... all of which have taken some nasty hits and lived to fly again another day.

In my opinion EPP is the way to go, however given the design of the ZIII and what I have seen so far of the Drak a combination of materials may be the best solution. Make the high impact areas out of EPP and the other things out of EPOR. In the case of the Drake make the center section out of EPP and the wing panels out of EPOR. Another possibility is to take a leaf from Zagi... make the LE of the wings out of EPP and the rest out of different foam.

route81
7th January 2015, 10:08 AM
I have built both the ZI (EPP) and ZII(EPO).
Both 've had their fair amount of bashing and some CFT (or better "Non" Controlled Flight into Terrain..)
If you think about best crash resistance/long term durability of the airframe, then it's EEP hands down.
In the event of a crash I think the protection EPP or EPOR give to the expensive electronics you might have inside is similar.
So, assuming no one wants to crash, I would accept an EPOR acft that is less expensive, that I can simply discard and rebuild if too badly damaged or that has become floppy with use.
Out go the hardware/electronics and into the new one.
Chris, I think that, business wise, you would have more success with EPOR: you get sooner to the market (which is famelic now), at a more comfortable price (for your tooling and for the end user). This should also give u a bigger market.
I believe maxprofitatanycost is not your mantra, but if you kickstart, you owe all the participants and must be sure you deliver.
I understand cutting EPP is not what you want to do anymore. Just keep it for whoever will pay for it or really thinks he needs it.

Was my idea of a molded EPP fuse + EPOR (switchable/replaceable) wings just babanas?

Cheers,
j.

Oh, BTW still haven't choosen my winter build....

Jrd
7th January 2015, 10:30 AM
I see that Chris would like to sell really nice and durable plane, but have to 100% agree with route81 that the price is important. More affordable frame -> more customers. And providing replaceable parts could could solve some doubts.

Is it possible to use some techniques of reinforcing the plane surface here (for those who want indestructible build)?

Also it would be interesting to know some price estimations for both materials.

ritewing
7th January 2015, 11:20 AM
I agree with all statements, but my other uses make this need EPP, this platorm layout is perfect for mapping with down facing camera's.
These type aircraft are usually flown by less experienced pilots and autopilot systems. They are usually in rough and remote areas with less than perfect conditions and landing zones, so EPP mite be a good answer .

Jrd
7th January 2015, 11:28 AM
Or really, the ideal solution from my point of view:

durable big one for serious users and cheap small one for fun (small and light plane - small impacts).

(and I am buying two small ones right away: )

ritewing
7th January 2015, 11:30 AM
I will also protoype a smaller one here soon

Jrd
7th January 2015, 11:37 AM
Can't wait then :-)

kross1
7th January 2015, 01:48 PM
I think we all agree EPP is better.

The concern is that EPP may put the cost out of reach for some peoples budgets, really. That's why I'd settle for EPO, cost savings.

What's the typical cost difference, +25%, +50%, 200%?

Derrick
7th January 2015, 01:56 PM
The only real comparison aircraft that I know of is the Caipirinha from TBS (http://team-blacksheep.com/products/prod:tbscaipirinha)... it is molded EPP. The Caipi is priced at $100 (this includes, material, mold/nplane, and profit). It is really going to come down to economy of scale... the cost per plane is going to be materials + Mold Cost/nplanes + profit. The more planes that are purchased the better the mold Cost/nplanes is going to be.

ritewing
7th January 2015, 02:20 PM
That is a baby plane made in Hong kong , this is a huge plane made in the USA.
I will get quotes in china too, I am just kinda hesitant with that.
The Spade EPP mold 70 I did in the summer for Roboflight was over 60 K $ , the new 50 spade that is sitting in CAD was 65 K.
The 52 Spade in Epor is about 40 K
The Capachingis mite have been 10 to 15 k , but that is a tiny mold and tiny machine with bead that is so lite its almost as non durable as epor,,, I saw one here fly last week and it crashed lightly and it snapped in 1/2.
So yes its EPP, but its not really taking advantage of Epp, I could form capi out of higher density epor and get a better plane.



The only real comparison aircraft that I know of is the Caipirinha from TBS (http://team-blacksheep.com/products/prod:tbscaipirinha)... it is molded EPP. The Caipi is priced at $100 (this includes, material, mold/nplane, and profit). It is really going to come down to economy of scale... the cost per plane is going to be materials + Mold Cost/nplanes + profit. The more planes that are purchased the better the mold Cost/nplanes is going to be.

imagebuff
7th January 2015, 03:16 PM
That is a baby plane made in Hong kong , this is a huge plane made in the USA.
I will get quotes in china too, I am just kinda hesitant with that.
The Spade EPP mold 70 I did in the summer for Roboflight was over 60 K $ , the new 50 spade that is sitting in CAD was 65 K.
The 52 Spade in Epor is about 40 K
The Capachingis mite have been 10 to 15 k , but that is a tiny mold and tiny machine with bead that is so lite its almost as non durable as epor,,, I saw one here fly last week and it crashed lightly and it snapped in 1/2.
So yes its EPP, but its not really taking advantage of Epp, I could form capi out of higher density epor and get a better plane.

Wow it seems like you could hire alot of EPP cutters for 40 to 60K.

ritewing
7th January 2015, 03:18 PM
Ya, if you want to get cancer from breathing EPP!
cutting it in mass blows!

Gutzy
7th January 2015, 03:20 PM
With your planes being able to break down. That is a huge + in a crash. Only having to replace certain pieces of the plane. So for me durability is less of a concern. Performance is #1 in my opinion.

Does one foam perform better flight characteristics wise?

ritewing
7th January 2015, 03:22 PM
Epor is lighter, And it depends on how you design the aircraft to build will determine its value if epp can get to epor performance in weight and rigity

serac
7th January 2015, 03:23 PM
My guess is that the average potential supporter on Kickstarter is going to be less serious and experienced that the average FPVLab member. Generally, I am guessing that a Kickstarter would do better with a lower price point. Chris needs to gauge what he needs to make off a Kickstarter, and what he wants to see for potential commercial/UAV sales.

For me, I'm feeding three kids. The lower the price, the better. I love the idea of EPP, but not the cost. If I need robustness, I can always cover the Epor in kevlar.

Suggestions:

1. "Drone" Kickstarters have been doing incredibly well, exceeding their goals by two or four times (ask for $100k, get $1.2M). It may help to cast the Drak as an UAV or camera platform, or (gasp!) drone.

2. Give the Kickstarter a "stretch goal" of having the choice of the other foam. For example, set a goal of $100k for Epor, and a stretch goal of $150k for EPP.

3. Can you color the foam? You could have another stretch goal of black foam. People can have weird emotional responses to colors - a white Drak may be boring, but a black Drak absolutely necessary to some buyers (and a bad idea in your Phoenix sun!).

Gutzy
7th January 2015, 03:28 PM
Epor is lighter, And it depends on how you design the aircraft to build will determine its value if epp can get to epor performance in weight and rigity

Makes sense...... I like working with the epor. Paints well, easy to cut ect....

aaron_gx
7th January 2015, 04:23 PM
My vote is EPP all the way. I've had numerous EPP made airframes before, and agree with everyone's comments here regarding durability.

I could make a video of my second hand zephyr (trappy's original zephyr before TBS), with about 20 bad launches, many tree hits, stall-out spirals of death, etc... Same airframe. Take it home, glue the winglets back on, re-laminate it and fly the hell out of it some more!!! This plane still exists, and is in flyable condition after this many years and abuse. 3 owners. Hundreds of flights. Repaired at least 20 times in some form or another.

If you fly an EPP airframe, it'll last.

imagebuff
7th January 2015, 04:57 PM
EPP for the win. I've owned multiple EPP wings from Crash Test Hobby including the 72" hercules and they literally bounced off of the ground at high speed without damage on multiple occasions. Laminated EPP is almost indestructible. I'm not sure why EPP molds are more expensive than others.

imagebuff
7th January 2015, 05:00 PM
Ya, if you want to get cancer from breathing EPP!
cutting it in mass blows!

Seems like there would be a way to ventilate fumes, etc.. 40 to 60k is alot for upfront investment w/ zero inventory.

ritewing
7th January 2015, 05:36 PM
We do, but you can't avoid them, cutting wings is an art, I don't want to be a slave to it like I was in the past. Plus these are so laborious to make the kits it's not worth the time. My kit cost would be higher than a molded cost.

Majki
7th January 2015, 06:44 PM
Please do not make any compromises. Drak deserves to be the best of the best. If you say EPP is the one to do the job, I will gladly pay the premium.

Pookyjuice
7th January 2015, 07:52 PM
My vote is for EPP too. You can build an EPP plane to make it almost bombproof. I had a Z60 wing that could really take a punch, If I wasn't so enamored of a jet black color scheme, I might have found it after 6 months of aerial searching.

vierfuffzig
8th January 2015, 05:52 AM
for me personally, EPOR has always been the very reason to go ritewing, your unique selling point. i prefer the way it builds, flys and lasts much over EPP and i don't see durability issues for well laminated EPOR-surfaces.
i've been flying my EPOR wings and planes for years and for sure have not only treated them with love ;)
plus there's a plentitude of EPP wings out there that come at pretty low prices, so that market segment is well saturated, at least in europe that is. you can even get your own custom CAD-based EPP-project professionally wire-cut for well under 100 bucks, so i would expect an even higher price pressure here.
just my thoughts,

cheers, basti.

crashsalot
8th January 2015, 03:37 PM
Well, I'm with Basti here. Sure, I would buy an EPP, too, but it's not a deal breaker; I like EPO very much. I can remember when the ZII came out and the pictures of Chris bending the wing. It's a tough plane, I got one of the first, it still flies well. EPP on the other hand is not as nice to build. Would I be willing to spend extra money on the fact that it's EPP? No. Would I buy one if there is no option? Sure, but not if it it's coming with a 500$ price tag. My personal limit would probably somewhere around +20%.
But that's just me: I hate crashing planes, and knock on wood, I don't crash that often, but if so I just buy another kit. Always like to have a fresh start over fixing old stuff.

afishindouban
8th January 2015, 03:58 PM
I agree with all statements, but my other uses make this need EPP, this platorm layout is perfect for mapping with down facing camera's.
These type aircraft are usually flown by less experienced pilots and autopilot systems. They are usually in rough and remote areas with less than perfect conditions and landing zones, so EPP mite be a good answer .

This is exactly right analyze, and I use all my ZII and ZIII in that way. but Chris, one quest, the EPP one will need to be laminated also, right ? even epp can not suffer too much belly land on a rocky road, it will become dirty and urgly.

Schalonsus
8th January 2015, 04:04 PM
+1 for EPOR

afishindouban
8th January 2015, 04:19 PM
it is really depend on the price. if it is just around 30% higher, I will go with EPP. ZII&ZIII with laminated are really tough enough even for a UAV work machine. I have experience of a hard crash, I think it is good enough.

AtariJoe
8th January 2015, 04:38 PM
Valid points... ^^

kross1
8th January 2015, 04:40 PM
Just as an FYI, if you click on the RiteWing banner at the top of the screen (when it goes by...) the link fails, rather than go to http://www.ritewingrc.com/ it does the following:

Not Found

The requested URL /forums/www.ritewingrc.com was not found on this server.
Apache/2.2.15 (CentOS) Server at fpvlab.com P



Better talk to Sentry about that!!!!

afishindouban
8th January 2015, 04:43 PM
here web have access ok.

ritewing
8th January 2015, 04:56 PM
Ya, sentry is a slacker

represent
8th January 2015, 05:12 PM
My vote is for EPP. None of your other current offerings are EPP (other than that huge Spade I can't afford or fit in my apartment!)

kross1
8th January 2015, 05:22 PM
here web have access ok.

So, at the top of this page, if you see the red RiteWing banner and click on it, you get to http://www.ritewingrc.com/ ?

I sure don't.

Pushjerk
8th January 2015, 08:55 PM
...I don't crash that often...

Lies!!! We've been Shanghai'd!!!

Schalonsus
8th January 2015, 09:10 PM
Dont know where this epp hype comes from. If everybody think that epp will be better if you crash nobody could fly gfk or cfk planes or wooden planes.
In my opinion epo/epor/elapor is even better to repair than epp.
But lets be serious. Who goes flying with the intention to crash? Even better who goes flying with the intention to crash with a plane for example with thousands of dollars of mapping equipment.
For example i fly a multiplex mentor made of elapor. I nose dived into the ground. Repaired the motormount and flew it again. Everything perfect.
Another example: nose dived my multiplex funjet into the ground made of elapor. Nose was damaged really bad. Some hot water and it flew perfect again.
And just to be realistic. I fly only for 3 years now and these were my only two crashes.
Just my 2c

ritewing
8th January 2015, 09:25 PM
I do like the stiff rigidity you get from EPOR.

crashsalot
8th January 2015, 09:44 PM
Lies!!! We've been Shanghai'd!!!
Lol. O.k., busted. 4 crashes last 6 months. All EPO planes, all were fixable. GorillaGlue with water is your friend.

Pushjerk
9th January 2015, 12:10 AM
Lol. O.k., busted. 4 crashes last 6 months. All EPO planes, all were fixable. GorillaGlue with water is your friend.

Just busting your pork chops, dude. I found that sentence humorous in your post.

Regarding Drak, holler from the EPOR crowd. Im all about affordability. Furthermore, currently building the Z3 - great experience so far. The foam is totally a pleasure to work with.

gnrc
9th January 2015, 06:32 AM
My vote would be EPOR too, pretty much Bastis and Schalonsus sentiments

c5galaxy engineer
9th January 2015, 11:22 AM
So, at the top of this page, if you see the red RiteWing banner and click on it, you get to http://www.ritewingrc.com/ ?

I sure don't.

Same here Kross.........It has been that way for a while for me.

kross1
9th January 2015, 01:01 PM
Same here Kross.........It has been that way for a while for me.


Thanks, that confirms I am not insane.
Or, at least, not the only one?

imagebuff
9th January 2015, 01:40 PM
At this point I vote for anything that gets the plane in my hands faster. I'm holding off on a plane purchase... I don't know how long I can hold out though.

M_A_R_T_I_N
9th January 2015, 01:57 PM
Best regards from God old Germany. ...
I would like to hear more about flight Charakteristiks, more wing span options or flight time on different lipos... doesn't matter to me if it's epp or epo.

c5galaxy engineer
9th January 2015, 02:02 PM
Thanks, that confirms I am not insane.
Or, at least, not the only one?

I cant speak to your sanity but no you are not the only one......LOL

Ratty
9th January 2015, 07:52 PM
Looks great Chris, and I will of course trust what ever you decided in the way of foam. I am sure it will be the rite choice with your experience and thorough testing.


Will do what ever I can to promote the kickstarter on our website and youtube channel once its active.


Hope you are feeling better after the surgery. Look after yourself.

ritewing
9th January 2015, 10:49 PM
Thnx Ratty, I am currently working with 4 EPP molders to get quotes for EPP, 1 for EPOR 1 for EPO.I am also at he the AMA show in Ontario Calif for this weekend, any of you guys come see me I will hook ya up on a Z3.
You guys are all top notch, thnx for keeping all these interactions so family like.





Looks great Chris, and I will of course trust what ever you decided in the way of foam. I am sure it will be the rite choice with your experience and thorough testing.


Will do what ever I can to promote the kickstarter on our website and youtube channel once its active.


Hope you are feeling better after the surgery. Look after yourself.

Red Dog NZ
10th January 2015, 06:01 AM
You guys are all top notch, thnx for keeping all these interactions so family like.

Dad....? :)

Schalonsus
10th January 2015, 07:58 AM
One thing bothers me with 90% of the plane builds i see. Since the drak should be an efficient wing please give a hint for the build. To be specific the rudders should be connected to the bottom of the wing profile and not to the top. Has something to do with maintaining laminar flow on the bottom till the profile end. Gliding performance will be increased.

XtremeWingRC
14th January 2015, 11:52 PM
count me in. I like it!! Nice looking wing! EPP because i grew up on EPP wings. :)

aaron_gx
15th January 2015, 12:52 PM
One thing bothers me with 90% of the plane builds i see. Since the drak should be an efficient wing please give a hint for the build. To be specific the rudders should be connected to the bottom of the wing profile and not to the top. Has something to do with maintaining laminar flow on the bottom till the profile end. Gliding performance will be increased.

Do you mean the elevons should be hinged on the bottom of the wing instead of the top? Maybe a flexible baffle such as on full scale planes would suffice?

jmisuraca
18th January 2015, 03:19 PM
I have been busy with life lately. I am hopeful to complete it be next weekend if I don't run into any bumps on the way.

57245

Rheutan7
18th January 2015, 04:37 PM
Nice! Like a big brother. Sorry if it's been mentioned, but what size is that center bay? I like it, lots of room for storing electrons [emoji1]

Hmerly
18th January 2015, 05:07 PM
Looks quite a bit bigger. I like it.

Siv
22nd January 2015, 05:37 PM
Personally, I'm not that great a flyer and between the Z2 and other EPP wings I have, the EPP ones are getting flown. I've crashed my Z2 twice and it's not been fun fixing - so much so, I'm reluctant to fly her again. So I would vote for EPP.

Having said that, not all EPP is created equal - I bought a EPP kit from a UK supplier and it was rubbish - the outer portions were like your normal EPP but the inner bits pilled up like styrofoam so any compartments I cut stared to fall apart. Maybe it was a crappy batch of EPP but whatever it was, it was not what I have been used to with EPP.

jmisuraca
24th January 2015, 11:17 PM
I went to Ritewing today and did some work on my Drak 60.

This is what I did:
Put in all spares (small spares are CA-ed in place then a layer of hot glue)
All parts sanded
All parts painted
Added hot glue to the spare channels to make sure they are level with the foam
Added a layer of 3m 90 to everything
Applied a lite layer of paint on top of 3m 90
Applied Goop to every place the EPP is joined together. Most importantly is the front of the cavity the battery will be.
Laminated the main body and wings (lots of "tricks" to get this correct, I tried to take pictures of how I did it)

aaron_gx
24th January 2015, 11:29 PM
http://chrisb.users.superford.org/Misc/HomerSimpsonOoh.bmp

Ohh man, that is awesome.

Twawsi
25th January 2015, 01:43 PM
Ohhhh to have life's problems of building a Drak. Terrible, just terrible.

XtremeWingRC
25th January 2015, 01:58 PM
I'm jealous. I want one. Beautiful

jmisuraca
26th January 2015, 08:44 PM
Started to cut in the bay's. Installed servos. Cut the holes to run wires between the bay's. Cut, painted, and lamed and the elevons.

Placing gear is a no brainer. Put as much as I can on the COG. The only thing in that picture that is not on the cog is the esc and air speed sensor.


57552
57553
57565
57566

ZobZibZab
27th January 2015, 09:57 PM
on my zillion planes...
EPOR does flies better.. its stiffer.
EPP does crashes better. Heck, my car bumpers use it too. ;)

the choice aint that easy ;-) that said, since i eventually always crash.. i usually like EPP better. sure, EPOR and similar arent hard to repair and arent as brittle as balsa but each repair adds weight and takes time. EPP .. generally you just throw it back because that 50kph crash in a brick wall didn't make a dent.

Also ill take a 24"-ish Drak.. thanks. (yeah and a pink pony) ;P (and kickstarter is a good idea)

imagebuff
27th January 2015, 10:10 PM
Any ETA on the kickstarter?

ritewing
27th January 2015, 10:13 PM
We are working on the intro and the video this week and over the weekend. I also have a hand built hotwire cut version just about ready to send to my cad guy to get it imported into SolidWorks. The epp molds are crazy expensive, so this would be great if everybody can help, it will keep this within reach for everyone. Plus the new Epp foam I have been looking at is very very nice for this application, I can also get it with a UV inhibitor in it, this will help it in the Sun and in the weather.

XtremeWingRC
28th January 2015, 12:21 AM
Sounds good Chris. Can't wait for the intro video and overview.

jmisuraca
2nd February 2015, 10:03 PM
Drake60 is complete - I ran out of light on Sunday evening so the maiden is still coming. Let me say that this was a very involved build. Way more work then I thought it would be. It took 3 weekends plus a few hours during the week days. I will say this plane is pretty sweet. I will also say that every time I am at Ritewing's shop I see Chris working on the 10 or so frames that he is sending to the test group and CAD Engineer. Here are the pictures of the last weekend building it.

My Drake60 Configuration:
Ritewing motor + 11x7 APC prop
Castle Creations 75a ESC
EagleTree Vector + Airspeed sensor
HiTech 225MG
Dragon Link rx + Dragon Link DiPole antenna
Sony Super HAD 600tvl
RMRC 2.4 400mw vtx

aaron_gx
3rd February 2015, 12:57 AM
fantastic!!! Can you tell me more about that awesome purple paint you've used inside the bays? That thing is going to catch a lot of looks in the sky.

jmisuraca
3rd February 2015, 01:26 AM
fantastic!!! Can you tell me more about that awesome purple paint you've used inside the bays? That thing is going to catch a lot of looks in the sky.

Sure. Since this frame is EPP, I wanted to "seal" the bays. I used Plasti-Dip in the bays. If the frame was molded from epo I would not do the plasti-dip.


http://www.plastidip.com/home_solutions/Plasti_Dip_Blaze

Also to paint it I sanded the he!! out of it. Then applied two lite cotes of Rust-Oleum (the kind that bounds with plastic). Then a coat of 3m-90, then one last LITE coat (just a dusting) of paint on top of the 3m-90. Why the dusting of paint on top of the 3m-90 you ask? to prevent cloudiness in the lam. Hope that helps.

Hmerly
3rd February 2015, 01:28 AM
That looks sweet. Damn I can't wait for Chris to make these available. You have my money for the kickstarter =)

jmisuraca
3rd February 2015, 01:40 AM
Just so I can see it better in the sky and to help with orientation this is how the bottom is.

Those are free hand stripes. There are no hard lines. I blended them.

58120
58121

afishindouban
10th February 2015, 12:17 AM
Just so I can see it better in the sky and to help with orientation this is how the bottom is.

Those are free hand stripes. There are no hard lines. I blended them.

58120
58121

how was your maiden? one more weekend past, hope the bird did not crash :) waiting for your update man!

jmisuraca
10th February 2015, 12:17 PM
how was your maiden? one more weekend past, hope the bird did not crash :) waiting for your update man!

I did not crash, I did not maiden it either. I had family come visit from New York and Vegas, on top of that I had to get some work done on my other truck (02 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab) as my 17yr old is now driving it full time. I'm thinking Saturday, I can break away for a few hours to get in a few "tuning" flights.

afishindouban
10th February 2015, 05:33 PM
I did not crash, I did not maiden it either. I had family come visit from New York and Vegas, on top of that I had to get some work done on my other truck (02 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab) as my 17yr old is now driving it full time. I'm thinking Saturday, I can break away for a few hours to get in a few "tuning" flights.

OK, I will wait for the result, wish you have a nice experience.

Chris..... kick it start :d

907FPVMAN
14th February 2015, 04:26 PM
Please kickstart this project ASAP i am in for one!

ritewing
14th February 2015, 04:46 PM
I'm working on it buddy I'm working on it, we will need the help of all of you to spread the news to make it come to fruition once I get it going

aaron_gx
15th February 2015, 01:21 AM
http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?37707-aaron_gx-Builds-a-RITEWING-DRAK-60-quot
Its quite deceiving how actually large this plane is. Large and menacing.

Hmerly
15th February 2015, 01:47 AM
Very nice. That thing does look big. The bays seem much bigger than those in the Z3. Can't wait to see yours in the air.

XtremeWingRC
15th February 2015, 02:21 AM
That epp one looks nice. Lots of room and just looks rugged!

afishindouban
15th February 2015, 01:28 PM
Chris, Can you make two side bay same as Z3 ?

ritewing
15th February 2015, 01:34 PM
Yes and even larger they will be!

907FPVMAN
15th February 2015, 02:06 PM
so much room for activities! and whats it stall like? stall speed? this thing must cruise forever

ezikiel12
16th February 2015, 04:04 AM
This thing looks sick. If its confirmed EPP, then I'm sold.

Edit: Looks like it is. Get this in my hands before the warm season. Make it happen!

jmisuraca
17th February 2015, 03:58 PM
First flight done! I need to make some changes in the vector. But in short- this thing is awesome. I will go more in depth after I have a few more flight

58839

Maj.Duty
18th February 2015, 03:32 PM
Regarding the EPO vs. EPP topic it sounds like Chris’ mind is made up and moving forward with EPP so any preference suggestions at this point might be a moot point but if we are still taking votes I personally wouldopt for whichever material will bring the price point down to an affordable level, which sounds like would be EPOR. I’ve read the arguments about a more expensive but more durable airframe maybe costing you less in the long run because it will be flying longer.



Most of us on here are die hard FPV/RC junkies and I think cost takes more of a back seat than to those customers who aren’t on chat forums and don’t have large quantities of airplanes in their hanger. What I’m trying to say is, cost is more of a factor for most people and potential customers out there than the material a model is made from. Just considering the dozen or so people I fly with, the first thing they are going to look at and consider is “how much does it cost” not “what type of foam is it made from”. In other words, the (high) cost of the product will be a deal breaker long before the material it is made from.

Reading Chris’ offers to sell some kits he had 30 hours into for $500 dropped my jaw to the floor and instantly put me out of the ‘have to have it’ category, which would be a shame because I’m excited about this release and totally want one and am willing to give up my money……..but not for anything in the ball park of five Benjamins. I understand the EPP material is more expensive, durable and that Chris needs to make a profit.

I’m a little surprised at how prevalent the topic of crashing is and how people seem to make their judgments based on how crash resilient a model is. We don't all crash our planes. I started flying when your options were almost exclusively balsa and one of the aspects of the hobby that really drew me in was the level of seriousness and skill required to be successful. I loved the idea you weren’t supposed to crash, that you had to treat your models with care and take your sorties seriously. This wasn’t an RC car bashing hobby any ol’ kid with a pair of thumbs could do, this was a serious hobby flying airplanes. I always flew with the attitude that “crashing is not an option”. I never purchased or steered away from a model based on how well, or not, it would handle a crash but I definitely avoided a purchase if I felt the price was too much and I’m afraid that is where I might be with this model. But who am I? Just some random dude posting on an Internet board that will have no relevance on the release of this airframe, its cost and materials.

I'm hoping to not be on the outside looking in with this release but its cost might force that position. I feel strongly enough about the cost that I created an account just to post my opinion about it.

Maj.Duty
18th February 2015, 03:36 PM
Double post

noishi
18th February 2015, 03:45 PM
Amen, the standard has dropped from the days you had to actually build your own planes and crashes cost you both time and money.

The airframe is something on a whole new level, i got to see it at the AMA expo, extremely high quality and well built. This is meant for a more serious modeler or commercial application, not a hobbyking toy.

ritewing
18th February 2015, 03:50 PM
All good points, the bottom line is we want most value and durability as cheap as we can.


I will try to hit the 180.00 mark for the base kit on the first run out of the mold, since its all a joint effort we will try to keep it as low as possible for those who help. Its looking like a 120k to get it all rolling, that's 600 pcs of kit foam with parts and mold cost and labor to pack boxes.


These are projections at this point, they seem pretty attainable if all are only base kits, then if you guys want the other packages with motor esc and residual stuff then we will go over our mark which means we really will do well.
Keep in mind, this is not set in stone and all needs to be finalized.

Maj.Duty
18th February 2015, 04:03 PM
I'm happily in at or around that price point. Thank you for the reply.

Questions:
Are you taking pre-orders to get the funding?
How do we contribute?
And, will the EPP build require vinyl covering like the Zephyrs or does the Drak material allow you to simply paint and go?

ritewing
18th February 2015, 04:05 PM
If you go to my website you can get on a list, you will be able to fly without lam, or lam it.

ezikiel12
18th February 2015, 04:18 PM
I'm happily in at or around that price point. Thank you for the reply.

Questions:
Are you taking pre-orders to get the funding?
How do we contribute?
And, will the EPP build require vinyl covering like the Zephyrs or does the Drak material allow you to simply paint and go?

That much opinion on the matter and haven't built or been in contact with an EPP plane? Once I plowed my EPP wing into the ground at 60mph due to technical malfunction and fixed it in 10 minutes with a couple blobs of glue, I'll never fly anything else if I can help it. I see your point on "taking it seriously and not crashing" but in the FPV world there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. The plane will go down eventually and a lot of times it's because the *insert chinese part* decided to fail and not due to pilot or bad design/build quality.

Trust me, the extra $$ for EPP is worth it. $180-200 is perfectly acceptable to me.

serac
18th February 2015, 06:04 PM
Chris: I'm getting a "404 Not Found" when I try to link to http://www.ritewingrc.com/drak.html. FYI.

Nice website, BTW. I hadn't been to your site in a while.

Maj.Duty
18th February 2015, 06:51 PM
That much opinion on the matter and haven't built or been in contact with an EPP plane?

What makes you think I've never built or been in contact with EPP? That's quite an assumption on your part, ezikiel

I've built and been in contact with all the materials currently being widely used in the construction of aircraft. Everything from all the foams currently in use to tissue covered balsa. I'm not sure what you took offense to in my post but nevertheless we can all express those opinions and suggestions.

I disagree with you about "absolutely nothing you can do about..." 'crashing' but it's cool, you're entitled to your opinions too.

Happy flying

ezikiel12
18th February 2015, 07:18 PM
What makes you think I've never built or been in contact with EPP? That's quite an assumption on your part, ezikiel

I've built and been in contact with all the materials currently being widely used in the construction of aircraft. Everything from all the foams currently in use to tissue covered balsa. I'm not sure what you took offense to in my post but nevertheless we can all express those opinions and suggestions.

I disagree with you about "absolutely nothing you can do about..." 'crashing' but it's cool, you're entitled to your opinions too.

Happy flying

Nobody took offense. It's called conversation. Your comments made it sound like maybe you didn't have much, if any, experience with EPP foam. I've been corrected... You have to understand you made a new account on FPVLAB to tell everyone that their concerns about durability were "surprising" because back in the day you flew balsa and crashing wasn't an option. Cool story, but back in the day people weren't trying to fly proximity down the side of mountains 5 feet off the ground, 3 miles away, with old chinese analog Vtx's and open source flight controllers and LRS'. Times have changed.

If you have been flying FPV for any significant amount of time and haven't had a single crash, then your either extremely lucky, or need to fly harder, lower, and further. lol

But in all seriousness, there really is no one taking offense and welcome to the best FPV community out there. :)

Maj.Duty
18th February 2015, 07:25 PM
I have little experience with FPV, which is why I'm here - to learn more from you all.

...to fly harder, lower and farther ;-]

ezikiel12
18th February 2015, 07:29 PM
I have little experience with FPV, which is why I'm here - to learn more from you all.

...to fly harder, lower and farther ;-]

Came to the right place!!!! Be ready for this stuff to consume your life lol

Twawsi
19th February 2015, 01:24 AM
Chris: I'm getting a "404 Not Found" when I try to link to http://www.ritewingrc.com/drak.html. FYI.

Nice website, BTW. I hadn't been to your site in a while.

I'm getting the same results Chris. Also, I concur with serac on the website, nice!

Updated- Site works. Was a problem that day only. Crisis averted, back to our regularly scheduled program

x4FF3
19th February 2015, 05:39 PM
site works for me.

Barebowblue
25th February 2015, 11:14 AM
Link works for me too.

ritewing
27th February 2015, 07:55 PM
Some pix of installation of pix hawk in a Drak. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/5e52ab3d68aa238c682ed1d390d2e106.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/eab3a53ce1bd4ed897e64c35913100b4.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/27/2c0a56b2d1a0447e440ea792a9da1c9c.jpg

epic4me
1st March 2015, 11:35 AM
There is a lot of room on those bays; i can imagine which battery set up will you use and fly time!! Looks awsome

ritewing
1st March 2015, 11:39 AM
I have been flying a 590 gram 4s 7100, and a 840 gram 4s 10000. It flys a long time even with my over proped hot rod setup.

epic4me
3rd March 2015, 01:41 AM
So do you think that Drake will fly more time with same baterry and motor set up?

afishindouban
5th March 2015, 03:35 PM
Chris, As my experience, Its better use compass with GPS moudle, not the compass on pixhawk board.

ZobZibZab
6th March 2015, 09:58 PM
You made the pixhawk look small ! :)

Note: depending on the GPS, sometimes its not better with the GPS's compass. Many of em have a crappy one and the Pixhawk one is actually pretty good.
In this setup GPS and Pixhawk are nearby so it probably doesn't matter much if the Pixhawk compress is used. It's more important when all 4 ESCs of a quad are right next to it ;-)
In any case you can see which is the best compass in the missionplaner, need to turn motor on and check the compass curve (tuning mode on the main screen). I bet the internal compass doesn't skip a beat.

Oh also.. 180USD for an EPP kit of this size with all accessories (baies, lam, mount, etc.).. it seems like the good deal/would buy ballpark price to me.

PabloJaime
8th March 2015, 05:53 AM
Hi Chris, I'm preparing my self mentally and financially for the Drak, so a small Q, will use the same ESC & Motor from the ZII & Z3? or will need a bigger/smaller motor/ESC combo?
Thanks!!

noishi
8th March 2015, 01:05 PM
Oh also.. 180USD for an EPP kit of this size with all accessories (baies, lam, mount, etc.).. it seems like the good deal/would buy ballpark price to me.

x2 this is competitive price range, I was expecting more to be honest

ritewing
8th March 2015, 01:13 PM
Well with the mold being twice the cost of the deep 3, later it will be more expensive, but I'm offering this crazy deal for everybody who wants to get in first. it should be in the 250 to 300 dollar price range minimum.

LVSloper
8th March 2015, 01:16 PM
When do you expect to offer this crazy deal?

ritewing
8th March 2015, 01:23 PM
The Kickstarter looks like it's going to kick off next week hopefully

LVSloper
8th March 2015, 09:00 PM
Hey Chris, Is the Drak launched the same way as the Z3 - baseball style or have you found a easier way to launch(unassisted)?

PabloJaime
9th March 2015, 04:27 AM
Hi Chris, I'm preparing my self mentally and financially for the Drak, so a small Q, will use the same ESC & Motor from the ZII & Z3? or will need a bigger/smaller motor/ESC combo?
Thanks!!

???

Pushjerk
10th March 2015, 09:50 PM
I'm in. And my wife confirmed she will not leave me if I buy another airplane, so that's good too.

I echo PabloJame's question above - is power setup identical to Z2/Z3? Have you been running your SS 1300kv on this bad boy with similar prop sizes?

ritewing
12th March 2015, 01:42 AM
Here it goes, help us spread the news guys. Thanks for your support over the years ,we really appreciate it. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598250936/ritewing-drak-the-next-generation-rc-aircraft-dron

http://fpvlab.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=59659&d=1426173687