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Håvard Støre
12th November 2015, 09:55 AM
How about the 5cell batteries for the new SS motor? Considering the size and weight of the plane I assume most of us will go for quite long range when choosing batteries. I was thinking something like 10000-15000mah with a medium c-rating.

Any suggestions (with links of course).

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16227__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_5S1P_30C.html

http://www.getfpv.com/batteries/flight-packs/tattu-10000mah-5s-25c-lipo-battery.html

jdjeff
12th November 2015, 09:58 AM
Is 5s a requirement? 4s bad?

Hoss
12th November 2015, 10:00 AM
Chris / Ritewing: what method did you use to get that paint job on there? Was everything 100% sprayed, or was there some brush work too? I hate spraying.

xmimx
12th November 2015, 11:35 AM
@chris awesome video but it looks like you were irritate when making the video. Don't be m8, you, we have a winner here.
The marketing of it should be as difficult as the marketing for the Jetpacks, except that yours is already available :)

Maj.Duty
13th November 2015, 05:47 AM
How about the 5cell batteries for the new SS motor?

A pair of these: http://www.store.revolectrix.com/Products/Blend435-BLACK-Label-30C-LiPo-Batteries/Revolectrix-5100mAh-5S-Lipo-Blend435-Black-Label-30C-HV

Håvard Støre
13th November 2015, 08:22 AM
Thanks:)
There seems to be very little to choose from.

Hoss
13th November 2015, 08:34 AM
I picked up a few zippy 8000's from hk. Been using their 8000 3s and 8000 4s batteries for quite some time in other wings with really good success. Picked up some 5s's for this bird before they disappear. I've looked elsewhere but most places want over $200 for anything over 6000 mAh in 5s. I'm very happy with 8000 for 73 bucks.

I know some guys we're talking going 4s. Any comments around that? Anyone who's got one flown with 4s that has any feedback? Ritewing have any 4s comments? Thanks.

Tomstoy
14th November 2015, 12:07 AM
Made me chuckle there, Hoss. I, too, beat the battery rush! Checking 5s stock here in the states is kind of slim pickings.

Yeah, frigging battery's. I got a load of 4s batteries. No big deal. I couldn't not get the ss motor combo.

What your plans on the video side? I'm just going with a fixed camera mount. I'm tired of messing with pan and tilt.

ritewing
14th November 2015, 12:31 AM
You can fly it on 4s, but it wont have the sack or efficiency.
You can go 6s and it will be almost too fast and efficiency drops.

So we call it SS, that means Sweet Spot, if you don't want to reap the benefits of all my testing then it can be USS, AKA Un sweet spot motor.
I have done many voltages ,many props, many motors many KV's,, go for it and see what you come up with.

The Silver will disappear in the air, the orange and red colors really help to see it.
My first one that is orange and black is in the process getting red winglets.
The Red winglets and lids are my favorite, you can see them, other people flying with you can see them from there planes.

Personally I think the black and silver looks great, but the black is hard to see some times on the silver. Red on silver and orange on silver rocks!

I know some people don't care, but I like to see my planes more than I like them to look so mean and cool. I cant wait to see what you guys come up with.

I have a lot of build vid footage done, if anyone wants to nicely edit them it would hurt my feelings,lol

Let me know

Hoss
14th November 2015, 12:34 AM
Made me chuckle there, Hoss. I, too, beat the battery rush! Checking 5s stock here in the states is kind of slim pickings.

Yeah, frigging battery's. I got a load of 4s batteries. No big deal. I couldn't not get the ss motor combo.

What your plans on the video side? I'm just going with a fixed camera mount. I'm tired of messing with pan and tilt.
Me too - fixed, probably pz0420 buried in the nose, which, no matter what camera I buy, I always seem to go back to, and a gopro next to it. 1.3, probably 1W with a mad mushroom and vector. A little plasti dip and a few batteries and we're moving!

Pushjerk
14th November 2015, 12:43 AM
Looking forward to more battery conversation. I'm itching to pull the trigger on a couple of packs to top off my pile of goodies waiting for the drak. So far HK has my attention - NanoTechs possibly - I've had plenty of success with Zippy an Turnigy packs in the past (so long as their treated with love), and i won't complain about their economy. Anxious to hear if Mr. Chris will be offering a Rite 5S Lipo.

kross1
14th November 2015, 12:54 AM
I will never buy another nanotech again. Stop and ask your friends first.

Much happier with the zippys, or the regular turnigys, every nanotech I have bought puffed way too soon.

Never again.

ginger1302
14th November 2015, 12:58 AM
Lol my color choices are limited to red black and white or red black and silver. Whole family is Bulldog fans and where I fly it is a rural area that are all the same. If I fly it with colors that look too much like Gator colors it probably won't make it back. That red and black though will have it coming back untouched. Hell, if I put my name on it they will bring it back to me.

ritewing
14th November 2015, 01:09 AM
I do have an awesome non tatu bat mfg, my mfg is not that well known.
I have never had a single puffy cell . This mfg is now employing the engineer who developed the thunder power cells,he now works for my battery company.

I have been using them for years with crazy good success.
I get my 5s 6500 5s 8400 and 5s 10000 from them for the Drak . I can get them, but have not since there is more liability and no profit for what its worth.

Since hobby king sells such trash at so cheap it hard for me to even compete, even though I have bats from my guy that are old and have never puffed and still have major punch with great capacity ,,even after many many cycles.
I have been hesitant to get the bats because there is no real money in it.


Looking forward to more battery conversation. I'm itching to pull the trigger on a couple of packs to top off my pile of goodies waiting for the drak. So far HK has my attention - NanoTechs possibly - I've had plenty of success with Zippy an Turnigy packs in the past (so long as their treated with love), and i won't complain about their economy. Anxious to hear if Mr. Chris will be offering a Rite 5S Lipo.

Tomstoy
14th November 2015, 01:48 AM
You can fly it on 4s, but it wont have the sack or efficiency.
You can go 6s and it will be almost too fast and efficiency drops.

So we call it SS, that means Sweet Spot, if you don't want to reap the benefits of all my testing then it can be USS, AKA Un sweet spot motor.
I have done many voltages ,many props, many motors many KV's,, go for it and see what you come up with.

The Silver will disappear in the air, the orange and red colors really help to see it.
My first one that is orange and black is in the process getting red winglets.
The Red winglets and lids are my favorite, you can see them, other people flying with you can see them from there planes.

Personally I think the black and silver looks great, but the black is hard to see some times on the silver. Red on silver and orange on silver rocks!

I know some people don't care, but I like to see my planes more than I like them to look so mean and cool. I cant wait to see what you guys come up with.

I have a lot of build vid footage done, if anyone wants to nicely edit them it would hurt my feelings,lol

Let me know


Love that orange and black, Chris. I'm leaning heavily towards the same scheme but everything you painted paint it day glow green.
Ought to able to see that puppy, especially those late evening return flights when the sun goes down over the mountains.
However, red is good.

In the z3 thread, the gentleman who posted the checkerboard scheme, now that would lend itself well for this plane, only if it's white, of course. That much pd paint though, forget it. Way too much weight. Besides, you can't tell what color it is under the goggles.

Pushjerk
14th November 2015, 02:07 AM
I will never buy another nanotech again. Stop and ask your friends first.

Much happier with the zippys, or the regular turnigys, every nanotech I have bought puffed way too soon.

Never again.

thanks for the insight, Kross. This would be my first foray into the NanoTechs. Guess not. The straight Turnigy lipos have treated me well in the past.

Hoss
14th November 2015, 08:39 AM
thanks for the insight, Kross. This would be my first foray into the NanoTechs. Guess not. The straight Turnigy lipos have treated me well in the past.
Yeah, gotta +1 that. Nanotech is absolute crap. I haven't had a single battery last more than a few flights before it started to puff. The zippy's I have are all still spunky and flat.

Hobbyking may sell a lot of crap, but some of their batteries are good. I've got batteries branded from some of the major fpv retailers that stay Velcro'd to my ground station now because they're otherwise useless after less than 1 summer, and I've got some turnigy (standard) and zippy batteries that I've been flying multiple years now that refuse to let my abuse ruin their day.

I've spent the last few minutes searching around for batteries. There actually are some offerings in the us beyond what I saw that are reasonably priced (less than $250 for 10,000 mah worth of juice). That doesn't mean they're in stock...

Chris, what do you think about maybe not "branding" the batteries per se, but letting your dude know that you've got a 5s plane on the way and that a lot of dudes are going to need decent batteries? Does he retail on his own or strictly wholesale? I'm not against paying for quality... I just think the few major retailers have lost their f-ing minds with some of the prices they're asking. They're not even warranted. One of the top 2 fpv retailers sells a 4s 10,000 for $119 - That's decent, even good, imo. Want another cell? Add another $100. It's just taking advantage of the situation I think... Especially them, being that they didn't offer it a few weeks ago. Suspiciously convenient. It wouldn't be an issue if you had to buy just one. It becomes a problem because you (or I at least) need at least 3 - 5 packs for an outing... I'm sticking with 5s for the Drak - I just hope the availability for decently priced quality packs gets better.

Håvard Støre
14th November 2015, 12:54 PM
The Drak can now be preordered from RMRC. Stock is -1 after I ordered.

I haven't had this warm and fuzzy feeling since I ordered my first Z3. Hmmmm....
67937

ezikiel12
14th November 2015, 06:25 PM
Yeah, gotta +1 that. Nanotech is absolute crap. I haven't had a single battery last more than a few flights before it started to puff. The zippy's I have are all still spunky and flat.

Hobbyking may sell a lot of crap, but some of their batteries are good. I've got batteries branded from some of the major fpv retailers that stay Velcro'd to my ground station now because they're otherwise useless after less than 1 summer, and I've got some turnigy (standard) and zippy batteries that I've been flying multiple years now that refuse to let my abuse ruin their day.

I've spent the last few minutes searching around for batteries. There actually are some offerings in the us beyond what I saw that are reasonably priced (less than $250 for 10,000 mah worth of juice). That doesn't mean they're in stock...

Chris, what do you think about maybe not "branding" the batteries per se, but letting your dude know that you've got a 5s plane on the way and that a lot of dudes are going to need decent batteries? Does he retail on his own or strictly wholesale? I'm not against paying for quality... I just think the few major retailers have lost their f-ing minds with some of the prices they're asking. They're not even warranted. One of the top 2 fpv retailers sells a 4s 10,000 for $119 - That's decent, even good, imo. Want another cell? Add another $100. It's just taking advantage of the situation I think... Especially them, being that they didn't offer it a few weeks ago. Suspiciously convenient. It wouldn't be an issue if you had to buy just one. It becomes a problem because you (or I at least) need at least 3 - 5 packs for an outing... I'm sticking with 5s for the Drak - I just hope the availability for decently priced quality packs gets better.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9365

Been using these on the proto Drak (2 in parallel). No complaints here. As Chris said, it's a market that's hard to compete with retailers like Hobbyking. If you can afford to support another company/manufacture and want to ensure you're getting quality, then I would definitely go elsewhere.

Håvard Støre
14th November 2015, 06:46 PM
How about using a single 6cell 8000mah like this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__16228__ZIPPY_Flightmax_8000mAh_6S1P_30C.html

Then limit the throttle on the remote to... lets say 80% just to throw out a number. The limitation should be so that the motor revs about the same as with 5cell. I am no electronic expert, so it is just a humble suggestion. Would there be any downsides to this if done correctly compared to 5cell?

Hoss
14th November 2015, 07:11 PM
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9365

Been using these on the proto Drak (2 in parallel). No complaints here. As Chris said, it's a market that's hard to compete with retailers like Hobbyking. If you can afford to support another company/manufacture and want to ensure you're getting quality, then I would definitely go elsewhere.
I bought the 8000's strictly for the convenience of having 1 pack, but realize now that I might be putting myself at a disadvantage, for several reasons. 1, placement for cg is much more versatile with 2 batteries. 2, although technically the max amperage should remain constant between 2 x 4000 x c and a single 8000 x c, I doubt it does, 3, many more choices of c rating in the 4,000's, 4, it's cheaper, and 5, it could be safer if a battery were to go haywire (I've had a battery suddenly "lose" a cell once. Ahh, next order.

Tomstoy
15th November 2015, 01:04 AM
Hey Chris, They offer a tracking app for the container? Boat still sailing in circles out in the Atlantic, dodging icebergs and such? B/day is the 4th, looking around then or too soon you think?

epic4me
15th November 2015, 02:24 AM
Where is the cg?

oleg_t
15th November 2015, 03:45 AM
See latest Chris video a couple of pages back. Its something like 1.5" from the front spar. But don't remember exactly now.

Maj.Duty
15th November 2015, 04:37 AM
Nobody is into the Revos, huh? Must not have ever used them

slievar
15th November 2015, 05:03 AM
Running Revo HV lipos in my quads, excellent performance so far and lightweight for the capacity. Will probably start with 2x 4S 4400 HV425 in the Drak to begin with.

Håvard Støre
15th November 2015, 11:21 AM
So.. Is there any downsides to using 6cells and limiting the throttle so that the SS motor turns at around the same rpm as with 5 cells? It would be much easier and cheaper to get batteries this way.

cmarkussen67
15th November 2015, 11:42 AM
So.. Is there any downsides to using 6cells and limiting the throttle so that the SS motor turns at around the same rpm as with 5 cells? It would be much easier and cheaper to get batteries this way.
You can do that but it will not be as efficient as it is on 5S. You will also have to check that you do not pull to much power at full throttle. An alterative is to use a slightly smaller prop but that will probably not be as efficient as the one Chris has been testing but it may not be that big of a difference. I also plan on using a 6S setup but have not decided on which way to go.

Christian

ginger1302
15th November 2015, 11:48 AM
I got a couple of the zippy 4000 5s batteries with a connector to put them both in. I may find the prop to run it on 6s too for the days that I want to fly fast and not care about efficiency.

ritewing
15th November 2015, 12:30 PM
I have tested 6s on the 740 kv motor and it worked great, but as far as efficiency it did not seem to have that same sweet spot for the weight as the 5s on 950, it was close but just a little off.
I did the 950 on 6s but it started very high rpms if you advanced the throttle to fast it sent the esc out of timing.
If you manage your throttle input to do it more gradually it seemed to hold timing fine.
I will do some more testing on 6s and lower the start power on the esc some to help with the timing issue. Yes you can go slightly smaller on the prop.

The perfect thrust to power ratios I have found is the 11/7 on my 950 kv on 5s seemed to be better tuned than the 950 on a 10/7 on 6s, it seemed to hold speed better, climb better and be more efficient. And like I said if you jammed the throttle forward fast the esc would go out of time due the esc pushing too much power faster that the motor could keep up.

Adding 3 V is a lot, I am sure the 950 on the 11/7 would be even more efficient a cruise, but the issues would need to be managed so you don't lose timing out in the middle of nowhere , you also don't smoke the motor when pulling 90 amps doing extended length high speed runs.

I also suggest if you are running the Drak at these speeds that you laminate the wings and at least the bottom of the fuse to tie in some tensile strength.
My 5s setup pulls about 55 to 60 amps on 5s at about 85 to 90 mph WO, that is Any faster I would say just build for it.

In the future I will be building a fully laminated nose clipped short nose speed and high performance version for 6 to 8s 8000 to 1000 lipos .
Its easy to shorten the nose by 2 to 4 inches and drop some crazy power in it.

Håvard Støre
15th November 2015, 01:21 PM
Will the 740kv motor be available for purchase or just the 950kv?

ritewing
15th November 2015, 01:36 PM
Not at this point I'm not stocking a motor that wasn't nominally better than the other 5s one I was testing. I might have a few extra 740 prototype motors hear that I will let go, but I definitely like the five 5s setup better. Its a $10,000 minimum order to order the motors modified like I did. I will modify the settings on my speed control and do a field 6s test when I get a chance.

Håvard Støre
15th November 2015, 01:43 PM
I will modify the settings on my speed control and do a field 6s test when I get a chance.
Thats awesome:) Hope it works. Its so much easier to get 6cell batteries. Not frying the motor would be easy enough by restricting the throttle weight on the remote. We could then use the big propeller on 6cell to.

Roboforcer X2000
15th November 2015, 03:08 PM
If there's only timing issue on 6s then there's no issue at all as ESCs can be flashed with FWs for multirotors. I'm doing so anyway on fixed wing for smoother throttle response.

ritewing
15th November 2015, 03:13 PM
That's not the only issue, its amp draw is way high for the motor, and its not as efficient, and your adding one more cell .

So as a mfg I go with a more well rounded super powerful , more efficient reliable setup that is all ready way over powered.

Håvard Støre
15th November 2015, 05:16 PM
Is this a good battery?
http://www.getfpv.com/batteries/flight-packs/tattu-10000mah-5s-25c-lipo-battery.html

ritewing
15th November 2015, 05:23 PM
The two batteries I've been running are 5s 6500 780 gram and a 5s 8400 940 gram. Some of the guys on the prototype aircraft have run batteries that big, but I have not , personally I like mine with a 8400 in it, it's right in the middle of the road, but the 6500 is also very snappy with crazy power

Håvard Støre
15th November 2015, 05:59 PM
This one weighs 992 grams and is 8000mah.
http://www.gensace.de/voltage-cell-count/lipo-18-5v-5s/tattu-8000mah-18-5v-25c-5s1p-lipo-battery-pack.html


These are the measurements. Will it fit in the fuselage?

67961

ginger1302
15th November 2015, 06:15 PM
Hmm I think I will be good on 5s.

ritewing
15th November 2015, 06:16 PM
I have had a lot of problems with the tatu battery brand. My 8400 are also 2 oz lighter. The multi stars are also much more dence for the weight.
Also look at the pulse battery

Hoss
15th November 2015, 06:30 PM
Yeah hey, while we're at it, Chris, can you throw out some dimensions for us? We've got the nose section that is one width / height, and the middle through rear where it opens up. Can you put those bay dimensions out amigo? Thanks man.

ritewing
15th November 2015, 06:38 PM
Pretty much any of the batteries you going to want to put in there will fit, the battery bay is cavernous, I'm traveling right now so I do not have these dimensions handy

Håvard Støre
15th November 2015, 07:38 PM
So tattu is no good.

Zippy flightmax 4000mah 5s:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=38234

ginger1302
15th November 2015, 08:34 PM
The drak flying with cofpv is using two of those. Im starting to like the zippy batteries more and more with my other stuff.

Tomstoy
15th November 2015, 08:55 PM
Got paint coming, blaze purple and blaze green.

http://www.awarehousefull.com/

kross1
15th November 2015, 09:05 PM
ginger1302, and all-

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3823

is the 20C sufficient? I'd think it would be especially if you are flying with 2 in parallel. How long of a run-time were you getting on these packs, with which motor/prop?

Like everyone else I'm trying to figure out what pack(s) to use, leaning towards 5S due to Chris's recommendation, and I've actually had good luck with 2 matched packs in parallel. 1 large capacity pack, vs. 2 of these in parallel, sort of a cost consideration.

ginger1302
16th November 2015, 12:05 AM
You just need to look at the amp draw of the motor. Running one 4000 20C battery will give you 80 amps. Running two of them will give you 160 amps which is way more than the motor will draw. Flight times will all depend on your flying. I think it was said it would run for around an hour at max endurance speed loaded out with batteries. You might as well assume a bit less and just fly it fast and have a good time. One good thing about running big capacity batteries with low c ratings is that you get more capacity for the weight. My thought right now is to just get a few of the zippy batteries. They are not that expensive so Ill get more of them. Then by the time I go thru one set the next set should be charged.

Hoss
16th November 2015, 01:39 PM
Forgive this question - I know it was already discussed but I can't find the post and the search function isn't coming through for me. I'm sure I'm one of many who are wondering anyway:

I know it's strictly speculative and anything can happen, but Chris, did you say that you SHOULD have the foam in hand on December 2nd, barring any delay's or snags, or am I just remembering totally wrong? Thanks.

Hmerly
16th November 2015, 01:48 PM
He's at the mercy of the ship carrying his container as well as the customs officials at whatever port the ship arrives at. There's a lot of things that can factor into shipping times and estimates are just that. Before the end of the year is probably as good as any guess.

Tomstoy
16th November 2015, 08:36 PM
By my reckoning the ship ought to be docked by now, or close to it. With luck Chris could take possession by T/giving,,or shortly after.
Or, it could all be wishful thinking on my part.
Either way, it'll get here pdq.
I have only one purchase left to make for this bird, and then I'll have everything. That would be a new GoPro. Mine crapped out.

HFMan
16th November 2015, 10:53 PM
Honestly, don't count days. It only leads to anxiety and frustration. When I do pre-orders, I don't follow the threads that give hourly reports and daily updates. It's out of our control. Relax, it will come in due time, Ritewing will do everything to make us all happy. Work on all the stuff you know you need to fix, build that kit that has been laying around forever. Build something new, cheap, and different.

epic4me
17th November 2015, 02:48 AM
See latest Chris video a couple of pages back. Its something like 1.5" from the front spar. But don't remember exactly now.
Ahh, there is a black line inside....

epic4me
17th November 2015, 03:00 AM
Best energy dense battery on market is MaxAmps, I have CBA many batterys and those are the best tested batterys for much, they sustain more power more time and have more mAh per gram

rank
17th November 2015, 07:13 AM
What's the cheapest place to pre-order Drak now? The preorders I managed to find myself ... man the price is stingy, almost the double of the Kickstarter's campaign :O

Shifteer
17th November 2015, 08:46 AM
Honestly, don't count days. It only leads to anxiety and frustration. When I do pre-orders, I don't follow the threads that give hourly reports and daily updates. It's out of our control. Relax, it will come in due time, Ritewing will do everything to make us all happy. Work on all the stuff you know you need to fix, build that kit that has been laying around forever. Build something new, cheap, and different.

Haha the long wait time on the Drak has actually worked in Ritewing's favour. In anticipation I have built both a Z2 (love it) and a Z3 (don't love it)!

Hobaoe
17th November 2015, 12:21 PM
What's the cheapest place to pre-order Drak now? The preorders I managed to find myself ... man the price is stingy, almost the double of the Kickstarter's campaign :O

i think the lowest is 299,, but you get what you pay for:)

Maj.Duty
17th November 2015, 04:47 PM
Haha the long wait time on the Drak has actually worked in Ritewing's favour. In anticipation I have built both a Z2 (love it) and a Z3 (don't love it)!

What don't you like about the Z3? Out of the 2 isn't the Drak closest to the Z3?

I wanted a Z2XL but never got around to it.

Håvard Støre
17th November 2015, 04:48 PM
I just ordered 4 zippy flightmax 4000mah 5s. Nice price on those batteries, and people like them. A little bummed out that I have to use two packs in parallel, but it has advantages too. I can actually fly with 3 in parallel just to set myself a personal long distance record.

Any idea when the new secret sauce and esc combo will be available at RMRC?

ginger1302
17th November 2015, 05:04 PM
You could just email Chris. I already have the combo here waiting.

Hoss
17th November 2015, 06:22 PM
I just ordered 4 zippy flightmax 4000mah 5s. Nice price on those batteries, and people like them. A little bummed out that I have to use two packs in parallel, but it has advantages too. I can actually fly with 3 in parallel just to set myself a personal long distance record.

Any idea when the new secret sauce and esc combo will be available at RMRC?
You don't have to use 2 in parallel... They also sell the 8000 version. I grabbed a few of those. Unless they're sold out... Not sure. Also not sure where you're shipping to. What they have at what warehouse usually determines my orders somewhat.

Håvard Støre
17th November 2015, 07:49 PM
Norway. Yes I can see its in the Eu warehouse. I looked in the wrong warehouse and concluded that they were sold out. Bummer!

Hoss
17th November 2015, 09:04 PM
Norway. Yes I can see its in the Eu warehouse. I looked in the wrong warehouse and concluded that they were sold out. Bummer!
I wouldn't be bummed. I'm actually a little bummed that I got the 8's. I would have rather gotten some 40c 4000's. It's a tiny bit more weight that way, but you get redundancy, better punch when you need it (I know the 8000's theoretically should be able to handle 240A, but that's horse sht as I've punished them with 110A - they can get hot trying to sustain in the very high amperages), and better flexibility with cg placement. I'll pick some up as I go along, but will run with the 8's for a while.

epic4me
18th November 2015, 12:51 AM
The drak balance with 2 lbs of battery all the way to the nose, so keep in mind that..

lbz34
18th November 2015, 03:18 AM
Any suggestions on a camera box? Need to buy either a new mobius style camera or a go pro style, just waiting to see what camera box will fit nicely on the drak

Aus_Woz
18th November 2015, 04:55 AM
Hi Chris,

would I be able to get by with a Graupner 12x6 e-prop with the ss motor and esc instead of an apc 11x7?

Cheers,
Warwick

ritewing
18th November 2015, 09:21 AM
No not recommended

Aus_Woz
18th November 2015, 09:47 AM
No not recommended

Cool. Thanks.

W.

Hoss
18th November 2015, 10:12 AM
Any suggestions on a camera box? Need to buy either a new mobius style camera or a go pro style, just waiting to see what camera box will fit nicely on the drak
Me too. I was thinking of cutting in a gopro and flight cam by themselves nicely into the nose, but was also looking at the z3 style camera box - looks like it would work well if done carefully and correctly. Don't know if Chris has had an opportunity at this point to revisit the mounting situation or not... It's going to be interesting what comes out of the community in terms of technique. I'd imagine 99.9% of Drak owners are going to be sticking a cam on it.

epic4me
18th November 2015, 10:26 AM
You can fit the z3 camera box with just minor adjustments..

kross1
18th November 2015, 10:53 AM
I still like Chris's thought of vacuum formed plastic covers, shaped for the typical or common cameras, which could cover the nose if you bury the camera in the foam.

Obviously a project that would take some time, and we understand Chris probably has little free time!

Hoss
18th November 2015, 10:57 AM
I still like Chris's thought of vacuum formed plastic covers, shaped for the typical or common cameras, which could cover the nose if you bury the camera in the foam.

Obviously a project that would take some time, and we understand Chris probably has little free time!
I like that idea. When he mentioned it, I took it as meaning that there would be a blank attachable nose - basically to cover your modifications. A molded nose for each camera sounds much more appealing...

Hoss
18th November 2015, 10:58 AM
It seems like people in here have already done some of the things we're talking about. Can we get some pics??

ritewing
18th November 2015, 11:14 AM
Hey guys i have been working on this a little bit this last week, next week we're going to be working on it some more to where we have the capability of having vacuum molded pieces so the cameras can be buried in the nose to be very low profile

oleg_t
18th November 2015, 11:23 AM
Drak add-on's could be another big business, like iPhone bumpers:)

Seriously, looking forward to see this vacuum molded nose for mobius.

xmimx
18th November 2015, 01:13 PM
Hey guys i have been working on this a little bit this last week, next week we're going to be working on it some more to where we have the capability of having vacuum molded pieces so the cameras can be buried in the nose to be very low profile
Chris,

if you could share a 3D file of the drak (.stl for example but any other will do) we could perhaps start designing some nice add-ons. I don't mind sharing them with you afterwards... let's say it would be a contribution for all the work you have done for us :)

crashsalot
18th November 2015, 01:41 PM
sure, and don't forget to CC China...

ritewing
18th November 2015, 01:48 PM
Rite,lol

Hobaoe
18th November 2015, 04:41 PM
hi, about the vector.. can someone explain the "require 3d gps fix"
its default off,, is it to ensure that you have enough sats before flying?

Hoss
18th November 2015, 04:51 PM
Yes. 3d gps fix is just that - enough satellites for an accurate 3 dimensional estimation. If you fly without 3d fix, any modes that require proper gps lock will not work.

If you're talking about where it says that in the manual - next to the mode descriptions, it's indicating which modes do and which modes do not require gps to work.

Hobaoe
18th November 2015, 05:26 PM
but what modes require that? isnt it just rth?
and the "minimum satelites" is default at 6 sats, even if the 3d gps fix is disabled, you will get a 3d fix when it has atained the 6sats minimum..
i dont quite understand..

Hoss
18th November 2015, 05:54 PM
Loiter, rth and most modes for multirotors. You can change the minimum required satellites that must be in view in order for gps fix to be attained. This is normally for high accuracy - you wouldn't want to lower this number, but some may want to increase it to guarantee a higher degree of accuracy in positioning estimation. So basically, if you needed pinpoint accuracy with a large multi, say for filming, you may want to require a minimum of 9 satellites and tell it that it must have proper fix. Dropping below 6 (the default) though would put you at much greater risk for error and subsequent unwanted action from the platform.

With planes, it's much less of a concern, generally speaking. As you say, there are few modes that truly require a solid fix to function properly. I don't know that I'm answering your question - I guess I'm not sure that I understand the question fully. Whether the "require 3d gps fix" is checked or not, you still need a certain number of satellites to actually get a fix. It will allow you to function without a fix though if you choose to tell it to do so.

Hobaoe
18th November 2015, 07:07 PM
Loiter, rth and most modes for multirotors. You can change the minimum required satellites that must be in view in order for gps fix to be attained. This is normally for high accuracy - you wouldn't want to lower this number, but some may want to increase it to guarantee a higher degree of accuracy in positioning estimation. So basically, if you needed pinpoint accuracy with a large multi, say for filming, you may want to require a minimum of 9 satellites and tell it that it must have proper fix. Dropping below 6 (the default) though would put you at much greater risk for error and subsequent unwanted action from the platform.

With planes, it's much less of a concern, generally speaking. As you say, there are few modes that truly require a solid fix to function properly. I don't know that I'm answering your question - I guess I'm not sure that I understand the question fully. Whether the "require 3d gps fix" is checked or not, you still need a certain number of satellites to actually get a fix. It will allow you to function without a fix though if you choose to tell it to do so.

ok, just to make sure i understand,, the "require 3d fix" is just an safety option of the "minimum 6 satelites" to make sure that it has atined a very good fix by measuring the hdop and sats? Or is that it has to atain minimum say 8 sats?

Hoss
18th November 2015, 07:13 PM
Yes. It is a safety / reliability option that you can turn off, and that you can set the initial requirements for by changing the required satellites that it references. You can tell it how many constitute a "good" fix, and whether or not a "good" fix is required to operate. It's more for increased reliability rather than reduced. ET states that you should not go below the recommended, which is the default.

crashsalot
18th November 2015, 08:28 PM
it should be on all the time. I think the reason you can turn it off is when you're using some noisy UHF and can't get a GPS signal on the ground...

Hobaoe
19th November 2015, 10:25 AM
Ok, thanks guys

Hoss
19th November 2015, 11:05 AM
it should be on all the time. I think the reason you can turn it off is when you're using some noisy UHF and can't get a GPS signal on the ground...
Agreed 100% I actually blasted out my gps with my video the weekend before last flying with a buddy. We both fly 1.x so I dropped down to 1080 (spare me the reprimand) so there was no crosstalk. I didn't go deep into learning about it, but apparently it talks in the 900's and then relays or converts or something up in the low 1000's. I was flying around, vector was telling me I was stationary and bouncing all over with satellite counts.

That brings me to a question: is anyone flying in groups on the same or close frequencies using rhcp and lhcp antennas? Is there success in using the same freq with the two? Our concern was the reflection off our vehicles - it would be entering the back of the antenna now at the other polarization (left becoming right and right becoming left), so we separated by frequency rather than test that and fail. Should've just tested it, but we were anxious to fly and just went with it. Does it work?

Håvard Støre
19th November 2015, 01:20 PM
You should/must use different frequencies even though you use lhcp and rhcp. You can fly with less frequency separation than when you use same polarization, so advantages are huge.

Hoss
19th November 2015, 01:22 PM
Awesome. So 1258 with 1280, opposite polarization can / should work? Thanks for the info.

HFMan
19th November 2015, 01:33 PM
My experience with 1258 and 1280 is that you MAY be able to fly together, but it really depends on both pilot's gear and antennas. You will both have to launch at the same time, land at similar times if both are powered up, and never get in a situation where one of you is out say beyond 1/2 mile, and the other is close to the pilots. No matter what polarization you are running, you will run into trouble if don't take precautions.

Hoss
19th November 2015, 01:58 PM
Gotcha. The 200mHz separation worked decently well, but like I said, it just blew out all gps functionality. I wonder if the new eagle tree gps units would help in that scenario. They have now incorporated capability to talk to the Russian system into their device, although I've got to do a little research to see if there is any difference in how the U.S. and Russian systems communicate to see if it'll actually make a difference.

HFMan
19th November 2015, 04:17 PM
Not sure why you got a lot more GPS interference switching your video to 1080. The main GPS frequencies are the L1 signal at 1575.42 MHz and the L2 signal at 1227.60 MHz. In theory 1258 or 1280 would be more harmful to the L2 GPS signal than 1080 would. There must be some splatter or perhaps a harmonic of the IF on the VTx that is causing the issue.
.

Hoss
19th November 2015, 04:29 PM
Not sure why you got a lot more GPS interference switching your video to 1080. The main GPS frequencies are the L1 signal at 1575.42 MHz and the L2 signal at 1227.60 MHz. In theory 1258 or 1280 would be more harmful to the L2 GPS signal than 1080 would. There must be some splatter or perhaps a harmonic of the IF on the VTx that is causing the issue.
.


Could be. I was basing it off of a wiki article that I read that states the below. As I said, I've really done no research, so I don't fully understand the workings of it.

"The C/A code is transmitted on the L1 frequency as a 1.023 MHz signal using a bi-phase shift keying (BPSK) modulation technique."

The 1023 MHz is what made me think that. Certainly could be wrong though.

Edit: Just realized it states 1.023 MHz, not GHz.

Hobaoe
19th November 2015, 07:51 PM
is there a difference in image quality on 1.2-.13ghz compared to 5.8?
i have heard so many diffrent answers on this.

HFMan
19th November 2015, 08:08 PM
Supposedly, but I've never noticed it. And I notice things like subtle differences between cameras, etc.

Hoss
19th November 2015, 08:09 PM
Yes. 5.8 can be clearer and more defined if set up correctly, but that difference will soon be lost when you can't see anymore because a twig got in between you and your tx.

Edit, just to say I do run several platforms on 5.8. I'm not dismissing it as useless. I just certainly wouldn't consider it for something like a Drak. I've got it on some copters and used to run it on some of my experimental airlines foamies.

Hoss
19th November 2015, 08:13 PM
As hfman says, at least for me, the difference is so small, or not even gained by some (which is why you get different answers) that I certainly wouldn't make a decision based on that theory. Clarity wouldn't be the reason I chose 5.8, but that's just me.

Hobaoe
19th November 2015, 09:34 PM
okey,, cause i hate 5.8 and im looking to make a change. ive crashed one z3 beyond repair cause i lost video behind a tree. ive been looking at the new 3.3ghz, but i dont know yet.. but if the difference in quality is so small, ive think i just made up my mind:) and i dont mind the bigger antenna on 1.2 either..
there is 4 things 1.2 would do for me to make the change, flying with 3 buddies at the same time, same image quality as 5.8 or close to, and enviorment interference same as or better than 5.8 and be able to fly semi long distance with cp antennas.. but what kind of range are we talking abaout here with just cp antennas, with 500-1000mw tx?

Hoss
19th November 2015, 10:04 PM
Don't take my ranges as what you or anyone for that matter would get, but personally I have gone out close to 4 miles before the eagle eyes beeped and the pepperbox took over from an omni. That is on high settings on the eagle eyes (meaning video must get pretty bad before it switches). I'd say, on a moderately powered system, you can confidently expect 2 miles of decent video, and possibly get 3 + in the right conditions. With tx power, you need to quadruple your power to double your range generally. If range is a worry, or the goal, don't try to achieve it with power (as I did early on, naively) get good antennas and just forget worrying about your video link. I run a pepperbox and an omni (mad mushroom) on the rx side with a cloverleaf on the tx side, on diversity. I do this so I can fly anywhere without worrying. It's certainly not as portable as a simple omni setup, but where I usually fly that's not an issue for me. I actually just made my entire setup 2 pieces that fits into a backpack, so it can be portable if you put in the work and get crafty with it. For worry free flying where you can get behind a bunch of trees and still see, or go out miles and miles, I've had very good success with 1.3.

Pushjerk
19th November 2015, 10:31 PM
Are we considering 2.4? I've fallen in love with 2.4 within the past year and a half after I moved from 5.8. Still use 5.8 on my park flyers, but for my bigger birds get the 2.4 treatment.

TBS has certainly proved the utility of 2.4, and many swear by it. I've never had any issues with ISM or Wifi, though I try to get away when I fly for any range.

I second the Pepperbox.

Hobaoe
19th November 2015, 10:49 PM
Don't take my ranges as what you or anyone for that matter would get, but personally I have gone out close to 4 miles before the eagle eyes beeped and the pepperbox took over from an omni. That is on high settings on the eagle eyes (meaning video must get pretty bad before it switches). I'd say, on a moderately powered system, you can confidently expect 2 miles of decent video, and possibly get 3 + in the right conditions. With tx power, you need to quadruple your power to double your range generally. If range is a worry, or the goal, don't try to achieve it with power (as I did early on, naively) get good antennas and just forget worrying about your video link. I run a pepperbox and an omni (mad mushroom) on the rx side with a cloverleaf on the tx side, on diversity. I do this so I can fly anywhere without worrying. It's certainly not as portable as a simple omni setup, but where I usually fly that's not an issue for me. I actually just made my entire setup 2 pieces that fits into a backpack, so it can be portable if you put in the work and get crafty with it. For worry free flying where you can get behind a bunch of trees and still see, or go out miles and miles, I've had very good success with 1.3.

i plan on just using omni antennas, i dont want to carry around a big pepperbox.
i have tested the imrc 600mw 5.8 to about 5km, it was snowie barely flyable, but would say the abselute max range. That was on two omni antennas.

Hmerly
19th November 2015, 11:23 PM
I've tried 5.8, 2.4, and 1.3 and ended up settling on 2.4. The performance is fantastic and the antennas aren't so massive. Plus there are plenty of good options now for transmitters and receivers. I liked 1.3 but dealing with the antennas just drove me nuts. 5.8 is perfectly fine on mini quads but I wouldn't use on a big plane like the Drak.

HFMan
19th November 2015, 11:25 PM
I don't even use Omni antennas any longer on 1.3G - I use Dipole antenna on the Vtx (very small), and CPatch (pretty darn small as well) on the Vrx. This combo is good for an easy 10 miles, with a 400mw Vtx.

Hoss
19th November 2015, 11:27 PM
No way discounting 2.4 - lots of guys use it. I just personally haven't and have no experience with it.

Re the 5km on 5.8 with an omni - That's pretty damn good based on my experience. I've got a pepperbox in 5.8 as well and I'd still be sweating out that far.

Hmerly
19th November 2015, 11:36 PM
You can get really far even on 5.8. Long as it's in open air

kross1
20th November 2015, 12:01 AM
http://www.awarehousefull.com/

Plasti Dip spray I've settled on:


Daytona Yellow
Black
Blaze Orange

OtherHand
20th November 2015, 02:26 AM
I'm looking for the wing area of the Drak, and I can't seem to find it anywhere. I need it to do some Motorcalc runs to play around with some different motor/power combos that might work best for me. For a variety of reasons I probably won't go with the 5S so I want to compare 4S and 6S (and I know the advantages of 6S but I have a heavy existing investment in 4S so for me that's a consideration). I'm not interested in power as much as efficiency as my Drak is going to be a mapping bird and I want longevity.

So....Wing area? Bueller? Anyone?.....

Hobaoe
20th November 2015, 06:47 AM
I don't even use Omni antennas any longer on 1.3G - I use Dipole antenna on the Vtx (very small), and CPatch (pretty darn small as well) on the Vrx. This combo is good for an easy 10 miles, with a 400mw Vtx.

Havnt even heard of those antenna before, how are those compared to omnis? Whats the downside?

edit: the patch is a little to big to mount on googles

HFMan
20th November 2015, 11:07 AM
Dipoles have a little better gain than omnis. They are smaller and have a lot less drag. There is a 3db mismatch with the circular polarized receiver antennas, but the gain of the CPatch more than makes up for that. And I would never use 1.3 receivers in goggles- they don't have anywhere near the performance of a comtech tuner based ground station receiver with a saw filter.

Hoss
20th November 2015, 11:40 AM
I used to run dipoles with a yagi or biquad. I was against the loss incurred when using cp. The beamwidth of the yagi was always a stresser for me, even with a tracker. As long as I was relatively close in, polarization wasn't really a problem, but became one at distance when turning while having questionable video to begin with. I gave omni's a try and just kinda transitioned into running nothing but, the more I gained antennas and attempted to go for distance. Lots of guys (especially guys like Mike from dragonlink) run strictly linear polarization and get massive distances with great success. There's up's and down's to each, but for me, I found more up's with circular. With good equipment and good antennas, you can get very good performance (with anything). Once I got a pepperbox though and saw that I could basically do anything I wanted as long as I stayed within a 160 - 180° degree beam in front of myself, I gained a comfort that I'd never had before. I incorporated diversity by adding an omni and gained a 4 mile radius around myself with virtually endless range in front of myself, and could find no good reason to look back. The antennas are big, but with what I fly on 1.3 and the piece of mind of knowing my video isn't going anywhere virtually no matter what, it's no issue for me. Can you get the same reliability from other polarizations and other frequencies? I'm sure you could. It's just the path I happened to follow and it works for me.

Maj.Duty
20th November 2015, 03:41 PM
Don't take my ranges as what you or anyone for that matter would get, but personally I have gone out close to 4 miles before the eagle eyes beeped and the pepperbox took over from an omni. That is on high settings on the eagle eyes (meaning video must get pretty bad before it switches). I'd say, on a moderately powered system, you can confidently expect 2 miles of decent video, and possibly get 3 + in the right conditions. With tx power, you need to quadruple your power to double your range generally. If range is a worry, or the goal, don't try to achieve it with power (as I did early on, naively) get good antennas and just forget worrying about your video link. I run a pepperbox and an omni (mad mushroom) on the rx side with a cloverleaf on the tx side, on diversity. I do this so I can fly anywhere without worrying. It's certainly not as portable as a simple omni setup, but where I usually fly that's not an issue for me. I actually just made my entire setup 2 pieces that fits into a backpack, so it can be portable if you put in the work and get crafty with it. For worry free flying where you can get behind a bunch of trees and still see, or go out miles and miles, I've had very good success with 1.3.

All my internet research and message board perusing, asking n00b questions, steered me to nearly this exact same BOM for my first venture into FPV

Hoss
20th November 2015, 04:35 PM
All my internet research and message board perusing, asking n00b questions, steered me to nearly this exact same BOM for my first venture into FPV
I've been trying to figure out BOM for a bit now, but coming up short.

Maj.Duty
20th November 2015, 05:07 PM
Oh, heh. Bill Of Material.

Engineering/Manufacturing background

Hoss
20th November 2015, 05:16 PM
I went there, but then I went back. Shoulda known ;)

Shifteer
20th November 2015, 06:47 PM
I really like 2.4. It's a great middle ground with excellent signal in a reasonably compact package. You have to look out for wi-fi interference from apartment buildings or schools though, if you're flying in a city.

Hobaoe
21st November 2015, 11:55 AM
I really like 2.4. It's a great middle ground with excellent signal in a reasonably compact package. You have to look out for wi-fi interference from apartment buildings or schools though, if you're flying in a city.

where i fly 2,4 would not work..
but im gonna just order a 1.2 system and try it out, locking forward to it:)

ginger1302
21st November 2015, 12:19 PM
I like mine. I fly mainly a mini hex right now and can fly thru all kinds of stuff and still have usable video. I use a crosshair and an omni with diversity. From there I relay it on 5.8 to my goggles. The antennas are bigger though. Im not sure how much drag they add. Maybe I will hold one out the window of my car going down the interstate so I can get an idea.

Hoss
21st November 2015, 12:31 PM
I like mine. I fly mainly a mini hex right now and can fly thru all kinds of stuff and still have usable video. I use a crosshair and an omni with diversity. From there I relay it on 5.8 to my goggles. The antennas are bigger though. Im not sure how much drag they add. Maybe I will hold one out the window of my car going down the interstate so I can get an idea.
Haha! Every time I try to consider the drag that something might induce, I contemplate how it would feel to hold it out a window on the highway. Yes, the antennas are big, but in the area of space they take up, there's probably less than 5% solid material. Go a step further and embed them in the wing like I do, so only the elements are above surface, and I'm going to say the drag induced on a 6+ lb. plane is negligible. I also never noticed it on my tricopter when I would fly fpv vs. los. Receive antennas? Can they get cumbersome? You betcha. But unless you're flying a micro or a paper airplane or some type of ultra light solar powered endurance rig, I wouldn't worry about it.

Captain crash
21st November 2015, 01:49 PM
I started with 1.3 for video for quads and fixed wing and IMRC 433mhz for control, got on fine but always liked the TBS ground station so bit the bullet and shifted over to 2.4 for video with omni or IBC circular on wing and pepperbox on GS. Have to say pepperbox is fantastic and have been out to 14 miles with Penguin so far with no real issues but having to turn round due to battery life. Still have all my 1.3 stuff but antennas are big.
TBS have done some pretty long distance stuff on 2.4 and its more than I will really need to go!!

Quite liked the look of the crossfire system but looking forward to more details on Chris's LR control gear he mentioned a few pages back..........


I really like 2.4. It's a great middle ground with excellent signal in a reasonably compact package. You have to look out for wi-fi interference from apartment buildings or schools though, if you're flying in a city.

Håvard Støre
21st November 2015, 07:15 PM
i plan on just using omni antennas, i dont want to carry around a big pepperbox.
i have tested the imrc 600mw 5.8 to about 5km, it was snowie barely flyable, but would say the abselute max range. That was on two omni antennas.
Omni on 5,8 is all kinds of wrong on a plane like the Drak. You won't be happy with.

Hobaoe
22nd November 2015, 09:25 AM
[QUOTE=Håvard Støre;751487]Omni on 5,8 is all kinds of wrong on a plane like the Drak. You won't be happy with.[

im going with 1.2

Hoss
23rd November 2015, 05:02 PM
So Chris / ritewing, now that you've had her for a while and I'm sure have flown quite a bit, how would you say the foam does minus laminate? Epp is much better than epo in terms of hangar rash - it doesn't mark up with every little bump and knock. I read on the plasti dip can that it's removable, so that tells me with a little time, airflow and sun, we're likely to see some lifting / peeling. I may be wrong as I've never used it before, but it seems legit in theory based on the removable fact.

Any other findings now that you've been cuddling with this thing for a bit? Any changes from the original build (or progress with the build video? :)

Thanks.

Hoss
24th November 2015, 04:16 PM
Draaaak.

Excuse me.

Pookyjuice
24th November 2015, 04:18 PM
Draaaak.

Excuse me.

Which end did that come from?

Hoss
24th November 2015, 04:19 PM
Upper. I've got enough class to not do that in such a small room.

ritewing
24th November 2015, 06:28 PM
Laminating is optional, you can laminate just the wings if you want . Or don't lam at all. It's nice to have the film, you can do the leading edges of the wings if you want to keep some of the hard landings from beating up the wing edges. Plastidip seems to be holding up pretty well then I've been putting it on very very thick. If anybody wants to take the videos I made and round the edges off with some very light editing I could drop them off into a Dropbox to somebody who would want to do that.

Hobaoe
24th November 2015, 07:15 PM
I want to see the videos now, just post them here, no need for edeting:p

Hmerly
24th November 2015, 07:26 PM
Same here. I can fast forward ;)

ezikiel12
24th November 2015, 09:56 PM
Some of this is footage from the Drak... enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i6yNHwomsQ

TheBender
24th November 2015, 10:02 PM
Some of this is footage from the Drak... enjoy!



WOW nice edit, great flying and beautiful views.

Pushjerk
24th November 2015, 10:03 PM
Some of this is footage from the Drak... enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i6yNHwomsQ


Man, you guys do this pretty rite. For real, this is quintessential fixed wing FPV. I am no longer going to try to explain to people what FPV is - just gonna show them this video.

Oh yeah, and the Drak seems super stable and, from "the cockpit" looks like a dream to fly.

TheBender
24th November 2015, 10:28 PM
Yeah looking forward to the Drak... pre-order placed...

xmimx
25th November 2015, 04:32 AM
Laminating is optional, you can laminate just the wings if you want . Or don't lam at all. It's nice to have the film, you can do the leading edges of the wings if you want to keep some of the hard landings from beating up the wing edges. Plastidip seems to be holding up pretty well then I've been putting it on very very thick. If anybody wants to take the videos I made and round the edges off with some very light editing I could drop them off into a Dropbox to somebody who would want to do that.
Chris, check your PM.

ritewing
25th November 2015, 02:29 PM
Got it buddy, just replied.
Thnx for all your guys help.
Scott has just received the vids, he is working on them now.

Håvard Støre
25th November 2015, 05:12 PM
Cant wait to see the build videos. Just love to watch and visualize my own build at the same time.

Hoss
25th November 2015, 06:09 PM
I'll have the build videos done soon.

On another note, I don't know if this link is going to work, but I don't know what I'm going to do about paint. The orange we know looks good as well as the black, but that grey would look really nice, and so would the blue... Decisions, decisions...


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5YNy5Q6F6LQaGNLSjZPVGw2UjQ/view?usp=docslist_api

ginger1302
25th November 2015, 06:24 PM
Just make sure they are colors that go well with each other. You should be able to find a color wheel online somewhere that has the colors that go best together.

Hoss
25th November 2015, 06:34 PM
Just make sure they are colors that go well with each other. You should be able to find a color wheel online somewhere that has the colors that go best together.
What, you don't think that red, brown, yellow and purple would make an awesome Drak?

Yes, colorblind or otherwise visually tone deaf people, please use homeboys color wheel above. We don't need any ugly Drak's flying around ;)

ginger1302
25th November 2015, 07:01 PM
Lol See thats what happens when I try to be helpful.

ginger1302
25th November 2015, 07:04 PM
Oh but I genuinely do appreciate the work you are doing on the videos.

Hoss
25th November 2015, 07:18 PM
Lol See thats what happens when I try to be helpful.
Lol. I'm just busting chops man. And with some of the stuff you see posted up in these forums, it's an extremely necessary point. Although the ones that are hardest on the eyes are usually seen as masterpieces by their designers. I guess beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder. As long as you like it I suppose...

I just can't decide between black on black, orange on black, blue on black, grey on black or orange on blue. The white could be made to work, but I wouldn't do it - nor would I do the red, but it would probably look good. I'm too indecisive. I need to see some others.

ginger1302
25th November 2015, 07:28 PM
lol I know you are. Its a hard choice and Im not too great at designing the colors myself.

Tomstoy
25th November 2015, 08:24 PM
Dragons are green, or at least in all the Hollywood movies they are.

Hoss
25th November 2015, 08:30 PM
That dude toothless is cool. He's black. You either have to have kids or be really young to get that reference I suppose.

Pushjerk
25th November 2015, 09:56 PM
i'm thinking pink and yellow to accent the grey. Sounds a little tooty fruity now, but looks great in my head.

kross1
25th November 2015, 10:00 PM
Yellow on the sides of the nose blended onto wing roots, black hatch covers and V's on back as Chris did and similar black on bottom of nose, and orange wide stripes down wing next to vertical stabilizers.

Tomstoy
25th November 2015, 10:48 PM
Still sticking with neon purple and neon green. Got the cans all nice and warm inside the house.

Hoss
25th November 2015, 10:58 PM
I like what Chris did with the two we've seen - following the spar channels with paint. I won't be able to decide exactly how I'm going to paint it until I've got it in front of me and can really get a feel for how it'll look, but orange in the front and blue in the back seems like it would be sharp. I also like the stealth look... That's what drew me to the black on black or grey on black. I know it'll have little visibility over some of the brighter colors, but I fly almost no los anymore. The other weekend I was flying with a buddy and was having intermittent video issues, so I had to pull the goggles. I hadn't landed los in probably over a year. It was windy, and it was terrifying, lol. It's like I forgot how to land 3rd person.

epic4me
26th November 2015, 01:47 AM
Which is the nominal weight that Drak can carry? Since the plane weights a little bit more than the pre production model ( the longest nose ) it would be interesting to know your data...

ritewing
26th November 2015, 01:54 AM
It actually is a larger aircraft, it has more Wing area and a wider and longer fuselage giving it even more surface area than the original, it actually weighs less than the original prototypes for the Wing area. We can not give up that information is top secret.

LVSloper
26th November 2015, 11:31 AM
Happy Thanksgiving to all! Really thankful Chris made the Drak and I'd be especially thankful to Chris if my Drak was on its was to Vegas. lol

Hoss
26th November 2015, 11:49 AM
Just as an update as Chris mentioned the build video being in the works yesterday - the edit is done and I uploaded it to Chris's YouTube account late last night. I wanted it to be good quality, so it ended up being over 16 gigs and took a bit to get up there, but it's in 1080 so you should be pleased. I put links in the description to the different sections to make it easier to get right to the parts you need to see as you build. As I mentioned, it was pretty late, so Chris hasn't had a chance to check out the finished product before making it public. There's a couple odd skips you'll see, but because I'm an anal douche, I wanted to throw in the caveat and just say that there were a couple sections where the camera cut or a surprise happened right as something was about to take place, so I piece'd it together as best I could without losing content. I'm sure once Chris has a chance to look it over, you'll get a link and can get all the Drak goodness you're so craving. Obviously, I wouldn't expect him to be doing that today, but I'm sure sometime soon you'll get the ding and can then obsessively prepare for your build.

Scott

Tomstoy
26th November 2015, 11:50 AM
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

Don't think there's one pre-order guy not chewing on the bit to get his hands on his.

Already our spring Hartsel meet has 3 Drak's, hopefully, showing up!

LVSloper
26th November 2015, 01:07 PM
Chris,
I was wondering if this battery would work for the Drak? Also, do you plan on selling batteries as well for the Drak?

http://www.getfpv.com/tattu-10000mah-5s-25c-lipo-battery.html

Hoss
26th November 2015, 01:33 PM
Chris,
I was wondering if this battery would work for the Drak? Also, do you plan on selling batteries as well for the Drak?

http://www.getfpv.com/tattu-10000mah-5s-25c-lipo-battery.html
If you're partial to that brand, then it'd be great. This is also an option if you're looking for 10,000. Tiny price difference for 2x of these (link below). I didn't look at the weight difference, but there are a ton of 5s batteries in the us east warehouse. Personally, and not because of price but because of experience of reliability and longevity, I am 100% zippy with all my batteries now. I got several of the 8000's that are sitting on the table for the Drak. I have several 3s and 4s 8000's that I've had for a long time that I fly with other planes and they're still like new. Don't, under any circumstances, get nano-tech's though. I've got 6 in all different sizes and they've all puffed up in under 10 flights each in different platforms.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58793__ZIPPY_Flightmax_5000mAh_5S1P_25C_AR_Wareh ouse_.html?strSearch=5s%205000

ritewing
26th November 2015, 01:34 PM
Thnx for the help Scott.

Its a nice no fluff build vid.


Here is what we have so far guys.

Strait build vid


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlXk-snbs2s


Build in chapters
Intro and Prep: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=0m00s
Spar Sleeves and Caps: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=4m22s
Fuse Strip Spars, Bottom: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=28m25s
Wing Strip Spars, Bottom: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=36m32s
Motor Mount: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=42m18s
Wing Strip Spars, Top: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=48m35s
Fuse Strip Spars, Top: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=50m47s
Sealing Spar Caps: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=57m37s
Foam Straightening Methods: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=1h04m08s
Alternate Fuse Strip Spar Method: https://youtu.be/tlXk-snbs2s?t=1h06m59s

LVSloper
26th November 2015, 01:47 PM
If you're partial to that brand, then it'd be great. This is also an option if you're looking for 10,000. Tiny price difference for 2x of these (link below). I didn't look at the weight difference, but there are a ton of 5s batteries in the us east warehouse. Personally, and not because of price but because of experience of reliability and longevity, I am 100% zippy with all my batteries now. I got several of the 8000's that are sitting on the table for the Drak. I have several 3s and 4s 8000's that I've had for a long time that I fly with other planes and they're still like new. Don't, under any circumstances, get nano-tech's though. I've got 6 in all different sizes and they've all puffed up in under 10 flights each in different platforms.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58793__ZIPPY_Flightmax_5000mAh_5S1P_25C_AR_Wareh ouse_.html?strSearch=5s%205000

I like the price; just not too keen on the parallel set up. The two battery set up would run another 200g more give or take; Tattu 1140g and two zippy 1280g.. I like the Thunderpower 7800mah 5s at 859g. $250; TP is running a black Friday special buy one get one free. Tough decision with not having the plane here to see what works for the Drak. I wish Chris had gone with a 6s motor set up; this would have made it easier to swap out batteries with my 6s quad.
Use coupon code: BOGO15
http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Products/7800ProlitePlusPower/TP7800-5SP25_2

ritewing
26th November 2015, 01:47 PM
I have been flying a 6500 5s at 760 gram and a 8400 and 940 gram , that prety heavy, its your call, I have seen guys on the protos carry that much.

I have flown 55 mins on 7.1 amp hr of 5s, I had an 8.4 in it.


Chris,
I was wondering if this battery would work for the Drak? Also, do you plan on selling batteries as well for the Drak?

http://www.getfpv.com/tattu-10000mah-5s-25c-lipo-battery.html

ritewing
26th November 2015, 01:50 PM
Get the TP, thats perfect weight.
I ran the 6s, for the weight it was less efficient.


I like the price; just not too keen on the parallel set up. The two battery set up would run another 200g more give or take; Tattu 1140g and two zippy 1280g.. I like the Thunderpower 7800mah 5s at 859g. $250; TP is running a black Friday special buy one get one free. Tough decision with not having the plane here to see what works for the Drak. I wish Chris had gone with a 6s motor set up; this would have made it easier to swap out batteries with my 6s quad.

OtherHand
26th November 2015, 01:50 PM
It actually is a larger aircraft, it has more Wing area and a wider and longer fuselage giving it even more surface area than the original, it actually weighs less than the original prototypes for the Wing area. We can not give up that information is top secret.

Wait....What? You won't give out the wing surface area? That's basic specification data. I asked for that info upthread a ways and never got an answer. I figured you were just busy. If you're not going to release that info I can always calculate it from a picture or wait until mine arrives, but....really?

Hoss
26th November 2015, 01:57 PM
I like the price; just not too keen on the parallel set up. The two battery set up would run another 200g more give or take; Tattu 1140g and two zippy 1280g.. I like the Thunderpower 7800mah 5s at 859g. $250; TP is running a black Friday special buy one get one free. Tough decision with not having the plane here to see what works for the Drak. I wish Chris had gone with a 6s motor set up; this would have made it easier to swap out batteries with my 6s quad.
Use coupon code: BOGO15
http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Products/7800ProlitePlusPower/TP7800-5SP25_2
That's good. A buck 25 each is a good deal imo for those batteries. 250 I couldn't do just on principle, but buy one get one is reasonable for those.

LVSloper
26th November 2015, 01:58 PM
Thanks Chris, I figured the TP was going to be the way to go since you mentioned in the past about 8000mah was about the right size. :)


Get the TP, thats perfect weight.
I ran the 6s, for the weight it was less efficient.

LVSloper
26th November 2015, 02:00 PM
Yea, TP is higher quality and made right here in LV; I can pick them up at the shop too. For sure, $250 ea. is way too much. :)

That's good. A buck 25 each is a good deal imo for those batteries. 250 I couldn't do just on principle, but buy one get one is reasonable for those.

Hoss
26th November 2015, 02:04 PM
The 8000 zippy's I got are 913g each, just to throw it out there. Their weights on the site are always over, sometimes significantly, but that always is a pleasant surprise as I've never had one that was listed under weight.

tibor
26th November 2015, 02:22 PM
The 8000 zippy's I got are 913g each, just to throw it out there. Their weights on the site are always over, sometimes significantly, but that always is a pleasant surprise as I've never had one that was listed under weight.

I got 2 of the Zippy Flightmax 4000 5S 40C yesterday.
http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9959__zippy_flightmax_4000mah_5s1p_40c.html

specs says 581g but they only weight 503g.

ritewing
26th November 2015, 02:27 PM
Well I found a nice easy launching weight to be between 750 and 950 grams, once you get over that it's a little bit more of a bear to launch, still flies awesome but who really needs much more than an hour of flight time. Even our mapping planes are not needing that much flight time. Have done a lot of testing with larger props smaller props higher kV lower kV. I'm recommending what I found to be a pretty nice sweet spot. If you want to try other things it's up to you. Personally I like a plane that will fly for a fairly long time still very fast and pretty snappy, and easy to launch.

LVSloper
26th November 2015, 02:29 PM
I just placed my order with TP; nice that TP is here in Las Vegas. The downside is I have to pay sales tax; ended up with four 7800mah 5s for $602. Although, on the positive side I will save on delivery charges. Plus, Mark at TP is awesome at getting me replacements if there is a problem with the batteries within the first two years. I think four flight packs should make for a good day of flying the Drak. ;)

Hoss
26th November 2015, 02:41 PM
Yeah, only once out of countless outings have I wished for a 5th battery. 4 is my standard. I usually fly 2 or 3 and only down to about 3.8 per cell. The 8AH go forever though, so I get about 2 hours of actual sky-time with 3 batteries (and 2 gopro batteries) if I chill back on the throttle. An hour if I'm ripping around. That's with my current go-to wing that is. I have a feeling I'm going to get better efficiency on the Drak, even though I've done some pretty extensive motor searching and landed on a very good / balanced combo on my other rig. 5s is going to help.

ritewing
26th November 2015, 02:57 PM
I also do this with a caulking gun, the marine goop is the same stuff.

It works killer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-2-oz-Marine-Goop-Glue-Adhesive-Sealant-Goo-Clear-172012-UV-Resistant-/321717596099?hash=item4ae7dcefc3:g:nZIAAOxy8hNRjSG i

LVSloper
26th November 2015, 03:01 PM
Same here, four batteries is a good day; usually; my first pack is for double checking the RTH/Loiter etc. and surroundings before settling into a long range flight. I found it helps with the nerves and gets me over the first over head launch for the day too. ;)

Hoss
26th November 2015, 03:03 PM
I also do this with a caulking gun, the marine goop is the same stuff.

It works killer.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-2-oz-Marine-Goop-Glue-Adhesive-Sealant-Goo-Clear-172012-UV-Resistant-/321717596099?hash=item4ae7dcefc3:g:nZIAAOxy8hNRjSG i
Ohhhhhh. I hate squeezing tubes. Grabbing some caulk. Good tip.

Pushjerk
26th November 2015, 03:49 PM
I like the price; just not too keen on the parallel set up. The two battery set up would run another 200g more give or take; Tattu 1140g and two zippy 1280g.. I like the Thunderpower 7800mah 5s at 859g. $250; TP is running a black Friday special buy one get one free. Tough decision with not having the plane here to see what works for the Drak. I wish Chris had gone with a 6s motor set up; this would have made it easier to swap out batteries with my 6s quad.
Use coupon code: BOGO15
http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Products/7800ProlitePlusPower/TP7800-5SP25_2

Thanks for that, LV! Not a bad deal. Gonna pick up two, at least. The community's take on 25C vs the 55C from TP? The extra oomph worth the extra weight (~100g) in a bird like the Drak?

ritewing
26th November 2015, 03:55 PM
No Need for extra umph, your only pulling about 55 amps WO, higher c cells have shorter life and weigh more and cost more.
And there is no real gain I can see except your wallet getting lighter,LOL


Thanks for that, LV! Not a bad deal. Gonna pick up two, at least. The community's take on 25C vs the 55C from TP? The extra oomph worth the extra weight (~100g) in a bird like the Drak?

Pushjerk
26th November 2015, 03:56 PM
So it has been decided. Thanks Chris for the input. Ordered.

ritewing
26th November 2015, 04:06 PM
Anytime buddy , even at 25 c at 7.8 amp hr your good for just under 200 amps constant. That is if the bats are at a true 25 c, thunder power is closer to their c ratings than most any bats available.
At a nominal 18.5 volt at 55 amps your at or very close to 1000 watts WO, give or take a bit dep on voltage sag.
So you are way in range for these bats.
So it has been decided. Thanks Chris for the input. Ordered.

ritewing
26th November 2015, 04:15 PM
I am just trying to bust this guys balz, Epic 4 me, he is always trying to put way too much weight in all my planes and wants a magic answer all the time.
He is asking questions knowing we have not even done the max carrying weight testing yet of this new molded Drak.
So I was being a smart Azz.



I will have wing are and spec for you soon on a spec sheet, don't be so serious,lol


Wait....What? You won't give out the wing surface area? That's basic specification data. I asked for that info upthread a ways and never got an answer. I figured you were just busy. If you're not going to release that info I can always calculate it from a picture or wait until mine arrives, but....really?

Hoss
26th November 2015, 04:32 PM
I'm pretty upset that it's thanksgiving, so I'm going to cry about it for a minute. It's 61°, 1-2mph winds, sunny for miles and a 0% chance of going flying. It's never 1mph winds. If you're going to capture footage, which has become my main goal just after the thrill of flying, it's in exactly this weather. I've had 2 days like this in the last year, and made my last (and first really) decent video with that footage. Is anyone else as addicted to fpv as I am, or do I need to seek help? I can't seem to get it out of my moment to moment thought process. Every beautiful landscape that I see is appreciated for is inherent beauty on this pretty awesome planet for about .2 seconds before I'm completely overwhelmed with thoughts of how incredible it would be to fly there. Am I alone?

Hoss
26th November 2015, 04:50 PM
Just had a positive thought - if it wasn't thanksgiving, I'd be at work, way more butt-hurt that I couldn't fly. Life is good...

Pushjerk
26th November 2015, 04:58 PM
I'm with you, Hoss. Took a Romantic Weekend recently with the Wife to Kauai and the Big Island. Ever rad place we saw, I was imagining flying on it, and looking for launch and recovery opportunities. "Oh honey, look at that gorgeous sunset over Hanalei Bay" while i'm imagining it in frame at 1000 ft followed by a bank and dive.

She's no better though - she's a professional photographer (new born, maternity, family) and much of her work is outdoors, as we have some killer back-drops out here in the islands. While I was dreaming of flying, she was eying shooting locations. Surprised we never recked our rental car.

Tomstoy
27th November 2015, 12:09 AM
[QUOTE=ritewing;752615]Thnx for the help Scott.

Its a nice no fluff build vid.


Here is what we have so far guys.

Strait build vid

[video=youtube;tlXk-snbs2s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlXk-snbs2s[/vide



Excellent!
Nice tips, tricks, and explanation. Really enjoyed it!

You heard anything from the shippers? Boat in port, container in customs, anything?

ritewing
27th November 2015, 12:38 AM
I was told yesterday it's on the ship and should be arriving in Houston TX Dec 8th or so, then it's up to customs , then shipped to Az. So I will keep you informed as I am informed.

epic4me
27th November 2015, 02:05 AM
Chris, Iwanted to know the maximum weight since I am testing new cells on the planes

Captain crash
27th November 2015, 03:42 AM
I like the price; just not too keen on the parallel set up. The two battery set up would run another 200g more give or take; Tattu 1140g and two zippy 1280g.. I like the Thunderpower 7800mah 5s at 859g. $250; TP is running a black Friday special buy one get one free. Tough decision with not having the plane here to see what works for the Drak. I wish Chris had gone with a 6s motor set up; this would have made it easier to swap out batteries with my 6s quad.
Use coupon code: BOGO15
http://www.thunderpowerrc.com/Products/7800ProlitePlusPower/TP7800-5SP25_2

Bummer!! Went for this deal which looks pretty good.....got to the check out with me 2 for 1 in the bag....cheapest shipping to Scotland,UK....$288, more than I'd saved on the deal.

back to the drawing board on batts!

Hoss
27th November 2015, 11:34 AM
Another no wind day (thanks Anemoi). Packed up, fly to the field (figuratively), set up and boom... That moment when you realize you forgot your mad mushroom. Tried with just the pepperbox but that ain't happening. Need a new sim card for my gps tracker so I'm not flying out of vlos - not by much anyway. Now the drive of shame to get the shit that I should've been squared away enough to remember. Happy Friday and happy flying.

route81
27th November 2015, 12:06 PM
Great build video Chris, THX! Now you REALLY got all of us in pre-order salivating.....but...there is more in the audio....
IS THAT THE CAMERA GUY I HEAR CHEWING AWAY IN THE AUDIO TRACK? :confused::rolleyes:
Was he salivating too?
J.

ritewing
27th November 2015, 12:16 PM
Ya, that was my dad, I don't know if it was the case of the vid camera making the noise or him. He did some nice cam work,he just spent the last two years fighting a brain tumor and won.

Hoss
27th November 2015, 01:23 PM
Ya, that was my dad, I don't know if it was the case of the vid camera making the noise or him. He did some nice cam work,he just spent the last two years fighting a brain tumor and won.
He was interested too, which was cool. There were a few times that he was taking it in like it was just the two of you and you were teaching him. Cherish that shit, as I'm sure you do. It doesn't last forever.

route81
27th November 2015, 06:15 PM
He was interested too, which was cool. There were a few times that he was taking it in like it was just the two of you and you were teaching him. Cherish that shit, as I'm sure you do. It doesn't last forever.
I agree, absolutely.
Dad did a great job there. I remember reading about his condition and I'm happy to hear he's out.

j.

ritewing
27th November 2015, 07:00 PM
He was interested too, which was cool. There were a few times that he was taking it in like it was just the two of you and you were teaching him. Cherish that shit, as I'm sure you do. It doesn't last forever.
Exactly, I told him I will do the vid as if he was a newbie needing a build lesson on the Drak, he really had a good time. He is a little off now since all trama and chemotherapy. The removed a bit of the tumor and brain tissue,all in all he is very lucky to be here. He offered to come down from nor Cal for a week to help me. His attention to me and zooming in and out was very well done. The camera is so good it picked up all the noises from the human body and the noise from just holding the cam. I think the vid covers a ton in a very short time. More to come soon.

ginger1302
27th November 2015, 10:14 PM
You are doing a good job out there. I kind of imagine all the stuff sitting in boxes just waiting for the airframe to show up so you can stuff it in and mail it all out in a hurry.

mutley2
28th November 2015, 12:02 PM
Hey Chris, getting Goop in the UK isn't so easy and it's rather expensive this side of the pond, can you see any problem using UHU POR instead?

oleg_t
28th November 2015, 12:25 PM
Hi Mutley,
most likely i'll have to solve this problem for me as well and find some replacement for Goop, but UHU Por wouldn't work well as it's a contact glue, meaning that its designed to be used in a way that you put a thin layers on both surfaces, wait till it dries a little and then join parts and press. And you have to join parts precisely from the first attempt - you wouldn't be able to re-position as it holds very well from the first second. So absolutely no way to glue in the foam piece on top of motor mount as it has to be glued from 3 surfaces. Maybe some other types of UHU would work, or something else. Please post if you find good replacement eventually.

ritewing
28th November 2015, 12:47 PM
How is this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmarine+go op.TRS0&_nkw=marine+goop&_sacat=0


Hey Chris, getting Goop in the UK isn't so easy and it's rather expensive this side of the pond, can you see any problem using UHU POR instead?

oleg_t
28th November 2015, 01:19 PM
Chris, so what kind of Goop exactly is the best for our application? Still a bit confused with all that variety.

ritewing
28th November 2015, 01:21 PM
They are all the same, I use all of them

Hoss
28th November 2015, 01:36 PM
Yeah - much better sales when you make a specific one for each application. They're all the same though. There is also a product called E6000 in almost identical packaging which is slightly thinner, and there's shoe goo, all of which are basically the same product. I use goop on just about everything, although there is one product that I would say beats all of them in durability, strength and dry time, but it's expensive relative to the others - beacon foam tac. The stuff is amazing. Also, goop, beacon and the others are all contact adhesives. Yes, the best bond can be made by mating two surfaces, pulling apart, allowing to dry and re-mating, but it's not necessary in the applications we're using it for, especially since we're not gluing airframe pieces together. You can pour it on and let it dry.

mutley2
28th November 2015, 01:40 PM
How is this? http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmarine+go op.TRS0&_nkw=marine+goop&_sacat=0
Yep that's the one I found as well, tis just me being a bit tight cos you guys will pay $20 for 3 tubes and we will pay $45 for the same, just tryin to make my hard earned cash go further.
Goop it is then, cheers for the quick reply mate :D

Marc Booth
28th November 2015, 01:50 PM
Hi Chris.

What is name of that white glue you are mixing with the gorilla glue?

Also what servo size does the Drak take? Any recommendations?

Thanks.

ritewing
28th November 2015, 02:00 PM
Titebond was what I was using, it can be that or any good water based wood glue. It uses a standard size 45 to 65 gram servo
Hi Chris.

What is name of that white glue you are mixing with the gorilla glue?

Also what servo size does the Drak take? Any recommendations?

Thanks.

Håvard Støre
28th November 2015, 02:02 PM
Ordered two of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-2-oz-Marine-Goop-Glue-Adhesive-Sealant-Goo-Clear-172012-UV-Resistant-/321717596099?hash=item4ae7dcefc3:g:nZIAAOxy8hNRjSG i

Unfortunately it was rather expensive with the shipping, but I won't compromise when it comes to using the correct glue on the Drak. We should do some research and find an equivalent european glue product to save money on shipping costs.

mutley2
28th November 2015, 02:05 PM
Just found this in the UK, 10oz tube of Marine Goop for £8.40 with free postage
http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/shop/marine-goop-10-2-fl-oz-cartridge.html

ritewing
28th November 2015, 02:06 PM
Sweet, as a pointer, if you go this route,, put tape on ea side of the fg wing spars and do the goop the same method as I do on the spar caps, it will be easier for you to do a nice gooping on the tiny spars if you do so. Just do it in a skinnier fashion.
Ordered two of these:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-2-oz-Marine-Goop-Glue-Adhesive-Sealant-Goo-Clear-172012-UV-Resistant-/321717596099?hash=item4ae7dcefc3:g:nZIAAOxy8hNRjSG i

Unfortunately it was rather expensive with the shipping, but I won't compromise when it comes to using the correct glue on the Drak. We should do some research and find an equivalent european glue product to save money on shipping costs.

Håvard Støre
28th November 2015, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the tip:) It makes sense. I do want a nice gooping:)

Hobaoe
28th November 2015, 02:55 PM
Will zap glue work? I plan on doing the same as i did with the z3, using it to tack down the spars and then using gorilla glue.

http://www.zapglue.com/

Hoss
28th November 2015, 03:02 PM
In reality, lots of glues will work. Generally, you want something that is flexible when it dries as its going to be in an application that will be put under various forces throughout it's lifetime. Adhesives like epoxy and ca are brittle and will crack when under flex and heavy when used in quantities needed to ensure that it won't crack. If you're looking to just tac something in place while you prepare your other glue, it may work. Chris's idea is to use hot glue to hold things in place while you apply the strong, flexible glue for the finished product.

ritewing
28th November 2015, 03:02 PM
No, and nope on the zap and gorilla. This is not epo or epor. One good flex on these wing spars and the gorilla glue will disconnect from the spar and the Epp

Hobaoe
28th November 2015, 03:26 PM
What about plastidip?? Use it on the glass rods?

ritewing
28th November 2015, 03:29 PM
I haven't got to that part of the video yet

Hobaoe
28th November 2015, 03:31 PM
I tried it on epor and it is aswome as a flexible glue

ritewing
28th November 2015, 03:48 PM
We are definitely covering using plasti dip.

Hobaoe
28th November 2015, 03:56 PM
So using it to glue the glass rods in would work great?

ritewing
28th November 2015, 04:00 PM
No of course not follow the video, why do you think I made it!

Hobaoe
28th November 2015, 04:18 PM
Ive seen it, just wondered if it would work

Hobaoe
28th November 2015, 04:20 PM
Ill have to get some goop then

ritewing
28th November 2015, 04:21 PM
You can try it on the $300 airframe, and hope it works. The issue is is plasti dip is not a glue its is very thin film without any very good strength properties

Pushjerk
28th November 2015, 04:31 PM
deleted, out of stock. lame.

Hobaoe
28th November 2015, 04:32 PM
Im using it to secure the vector and fpv cam,, not for structual things. I use the liquid stuff instead of spray.

ritewing
28th November 2015, 04:35 PM
I do the same but I do with Goop

Captain crash
28th November 2015, 04:43 PM
Good find mutley, Ive bought goop from ebay before, same place as Chris's link. The big 10oz tube will be a bit awkward to apply with a big old sealant gun but you get a lot more glue for your money...wonder if it could be transferred into a few smaller tubes. Trouble is as soon as you break the seal on that, unless you have some sort of cap to stop the air getting to it its going to want to go off quick or at least the first part of the tube!


Just found this in the UK, 10oz tube of Marine Goop for £8.40 with free postage
http://www.palmermetals.co.uk/shop/marine-goop-10-2-fl-oz-cartridge.html

Hoss
28th November 2015, 05:08 PM
Good find mutley, Ive bought goop from ebay before, same place as Chris's link. The big 10oz tube will be a bit awkward to apply with a big old sealant gun but you get a lot more glue for your money...wonder if it could be transferred into a few smaller tubes. Trouble is as soon as you break the seal on that, unless you have some sort of cap to stop the air getting to it its going to want to go off quick or at least the first part of the tube!
I stick a nail in the end of the tube. Anything that fits tightly in the end of the nozzle will work. Also, like caulk, you can let the tip dry and pull it off next time you use it. Just don't clean the tip after using it so it forms a little bubble on the end that you can grab onto. There should be no air in the nozzle or tube itself, so it should stay fresh.

Hoss
28th November 2015, 05:12 PM
With the nozzle end that comes with the plumbers goop, if it does happen to dry and you can't pull it out, I remove the nozzle and use a piece of music wire or coat hangar and just push it right back out with wide end and it's like new.

ritewing
28th November 2015, 05:29 PM
deleted, out of stock. lame.
Wrong size too

kross1
28th November 2015, 05:57 PM
Sigh. Wish HobbyKing with their CyberSale would list some of the 5S 20C 4,000 - 8,000 mAh Zippy or Turnigy (not nano-tech-crap) bats as being on sale.

I wish.

If you see an outstanding sale on a DRAK-friendly 5S battery please share, the awesome BOGO listed previously is a bit more battery than I need for where I fly. Maybe in the future.

Hoss
28th November 2015, 06:15 PM
Sigh. Wish HobbyKing with their CyberSale would list some of the 5S 20C 4,000 - 8,000 mAh Zippy or Turnigy (not nano-tech-crap) bats as being on sale.

I wish.

If you see an outstanding sale on a DRAK-friendly 5S battery please share, the awesome BOGO listed previously is a bit more battery than I need for where I fly. Maybe in the future.
Relative to any other 5s battery, hk's selection is ridiculously cheap. An 8,000 elsewhere is over $200. It's $73 from hk. The 4000's are $33. I guess I hope as you do, but I wouldn't expect it.

HFMan
28th November 2015, 09:52 PM
Chris... Any reason you are choosing plastidip paint over the awesome Rustoleum 2X gloss a lot of us were using on the Z3? The color selection seems a lot better with Rustoleum, and I loved its coverage and how well laminate sticks to it.

Captain crash
29th November 2015, 05:19 AM
Have to say I use plasti on other foamies and it's fantastic, my skipper XL took a real high speed crash head on into a rocky area and apart from the nose looking a bit squashed the plasti was undamaged, I couldn't believe it, a bit of hot water and she was as good as new. It's so tuff and is very hard to get off. I wouldn't paint the whole plane with it due to weight but for the areas that will take a beating I would highly recommend it. Haven't tried to laminate over but will experiment before the drak arrives


Chris... Any reason you are choosing plastidip paint over the awesome Rustoleum 2X gloss a lot of us were using on the Z3? The color selection seems a lot better with Rustoleum, and I loved its coverage and how well laminate sticks to it.

Tomstoy
29th November 2015, 10:09 AM
Chris... Any reason you are choosing plastidip paint over the awesome Rustoleum 2X gloss a lot of us were using on the Z3? The color selection seems a lot better with Rustoleum, and I loved its coverage and how well laminate sticks to it.

Depending on packaging of course, if there's some packaging foam protecting the plane you could test it out before deciding.
Chris said the paint doesn't stick well at all, but I'm thinking if one was to get the spackling on in an almost liquid state it would seep into the pores and thus seal well and bond fine. Then primer and paint.
One would think this adds serious weight but truth is in the same coverage area I bet the weight difference isn't much. If you compare just paint weight the p/d paint is a ton heavier.

The big difference will be longevity. P/D is flexible and stretches and compacts well. Over time it will still look good.
Besides weight, the other issue is the limited color choices.
It's not a well stocked paint, either. Best to call and have them get your color in for you, or order on line.

Don't know about laminate. If I was to bet my money would be on "sticks-like-hell".

Try out a sample of your paint and let us know how it goes. That is if you can resist the temptation of the plane sitting on the bench whispering "paint me already will ya!",

xmimx
29th November 2015, 01:09 PM
we use this in some of our builds but needs at least 24h drying

Tec7 Sealant for Bonding/ Sealing/ Fastening - Black
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00AQUSCEA/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_AdZwwbTEFK4K9

xmimx
29th November 2015, 01:49 PM
Chris,

it would perhaps be good to post the build video in the ops (1st post)?

ritewing
29th November 2015, 08:22 PM
Plastidip sticks, paint will flake off this foam .
Plasidip is not seeming to be any heavier, but adds nice anti abrasion characteristics.

The only way the hinge tape for the elevons will stick to the plane is if there is a layer of plastidip is put down for it to stick too.
The hinge tape will not stick to just the silver foam, the wings will need lam or plastidip on the TE for the elevons to attach.

More vids will come soon,

Chris,

it would perhaps be good to post the build video in the ops (1st post)?

HFMan
29th November 2015, 09:27 PM
That's a bummer about the advice to not paint with Rustoleum. Is this foam different in that regard than the pre-prod Draks? I'm certain ezikiel used Rustoleum, and I've used it on other EPP craft with success.

ritewing
29th November 2015, 09:31 PM
The foam is of the same family, but the original ones are Hotwire cut where opens up the pores in slices across the bead. These beads are not cut across they are allowed to be cylendical and are not porous, so the paint does not stick, it's like painting glass and expecting it to stick well. .

Tomstoy
29th November 2015, 09:42 PM
The prototypes were hand cut using his foam, not the german's.

Chris, did you just spray the p/d color on direct without preparations or using their primer?

ritewing
29th November 2015, 09:44 PM
Yes just spray on directly, pull off any and all tape while still wet or re spray tape lines to make wet prior to pulling tape off

Tomstoy
29th November 2015, 09:47 PM
Thanks, good to know.

Hoss
29th November 2015, 09:53 PM
A quick sand with fine grit would remove that slick surface pretty quickly. I'm going with plasti dip personally, but if for one reason or another you couldn't /didn't want to, can't get it where you are etc, it wouldn't be hard to expose the raw foam in spots you plan to paint. It's probably just in my head, but I feel like the skin on the outside might contribute to its strength / durability, especially when under stress, like providing tension while being bent, so I wouldn't personally want to remove it.

Tomstoy
29th November 2015, 10:17 PM
You are right. mold is cooler than the injection temperature of the foam. As the foam pushes across the surface of the mold caivety it skims immediately on contact. Then injection and hold pressure compacts it.
I couldn't guess how much strength that gives you in a partial application but it is measurable mathematically.

oleg_t
30th November 2015, 12:38 AM
Actually was building a HK TechSumo, its EPP and molded I think, but the surface is not very smooth at all which made a small attach surface for a tape as well. In that case I just had to put a layer of a glue(like shoe glue) and let it dry, which made a super sticky surface for any kind of tape. So I think PlastiDip will do the same in terms of attachability. +strength+color.

Shifteer
30th November 2015, 02:13 PM
Hey Ritewing crew should I expect to be able to put this under my Christmas tree this year? Or do I need to buy something else to put under there? I'm likely in the first batch of orders.

Håvard Støre
30th November 2015, 03:59 PM
As plasti dip have several products I need to make sure I get the right one. Luckily for me plasti dip is easy to get a hold of in Norway.

Whitch is the right one? All of them?

Plasti dip standard:
http://www.plastidip.no/plasti-dip-standard-spray.html

Plasti dip amcar and retro spray:
http://www.plastidip.no/plasti-dip-musclecar-spray.html

Plasti dip Blaze:
http://www.plastidip.no/produkter/performix/plasti-dip-spray-blaze.html

Hoss
30th November 2015, 04:38 PM
It's just color differences. Standard colors, retro colors to match oem classic car colors and such and neon colors.

Hoss
30th November 2015, 04:42 PM
I'll tell you what though, looking that up to find out what the differences are opened my eyes well beyond the 5 colors that my nearest big box store offers. This is going to get interesting.

Hoss
30th November 2015, 05:41 PM
Just next your way through the pictures they've got. There's all kinds of stuff - plasti dip reflective coating, muscle car colors, chameleon (color changing), standard etc. They make a ton of stuff.

http://www.kppigments.com/collections/plasti-dip/products/classic-muscle-car-color-plasti-dip-aerosol?variant=4490147969&gclid=CjwKEAiAhPCyBRCtwMDS5tzT03gSJADZ8VjRwprq4JqS dKgicBM8eR5BL7-R5GcaPCbWGNIjnsLx2BoCW4fw_wcB

Håvard Støre
30th November 2015, 06:25 PM
Theres plenty colors and effects to choose from then, but I think I will do something simple and weight saving. Primarily in places where its needed.

Hoss
30th November 2015, 06:45 PM
Theres plenty colors and effects to choose from then, but I think I will do something simple and weight saving. Primarily in places where its needed.
Right on - I'm on the same track. I think I'm going to follow the natural lines, pretty much how Chris did, leaving the center section untouched. 2 tone, with possibly coloring the elevons a different (3rd) color. Red or blue front, black rear and yellow elevons might look pretty sick, although I'll probably end up with something much less flashy.

ritewing
30th November 2015, 07:22 PM
It's beautiful, keep it simple and clean, where I put bright colors I do a few coats of white prior to the bright, this makes the bright colors have a more vibrant outcome. I put the plastidip on heavy with many light coats.

Hoss
30th November 2015, 07:31 PM
It's beautiful, keep it simple and clean, where I put bright colors I do a few coats of white prior to the bright, this makes the bright colors have a more vibrant outcome. I put the plastidip on heavy with many light coats.
Did you tape, coat, peel, dry - over and over, or did you tape, coat, hang for a few and coat again, hang for a few and coat again, keeping the first layer wet so the tape will come off in the end? Basically, did you do it all at once in an hour or make it a 2 day project?

ritewing
30th November 2015, 07:37 PM
No the only time you take the tape of is at the end of your last coat while its still wet, you can let it tack dry between coats, just remove tape and paper when its still wet.

TheBender
30th November 2015, 08:29 PM
Thanks for all this info. My current favorite FPV plane is Windrider ScoutBee, which is a 60" Molded EPP airplane. I painted it with krylon stuff good for plastic. I do not believe I sprayed it first with 3M77 as I usually do. I think I just painted it and lammed it. Lots of flight hours, a couple MAJOR crashes. Paint and lam yet to separate and still stiff as a board. So I was going to do that with the Drak but now will just accent with plastidip as recommended. Want to keep it light anyway... so will not use much. Other suggestions for FC/component layout choices to keep it light? No doubt I am bound to end up trying to fly the thing through a gap that is too small for my skills and destroying it, but I look forward to this new airframe and the build... and the flying.

kross1
1st December 2015, 12:31 AM
So, who else on NEFPV is getting one, I am too.

WillM
1st December 2015, 12:18 PM
+1 NEFPV crew. I was in the KickStarter, then followed-up with a pre-order when the KickStarter didn't happen.

Very much looking forward to this plane!

I also look forward to seeing where builders place their flight controllers and accessories (pitot, GPS). I would like to have the wings come off for easy transport in my tiny convertible, yet quick and easy re-assembly at the field.

My build will include:
TBS Crossfire for Control
SS Motor
ET Vector FC (or perhaps my spare Ruby)