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View Full Version : Z3 Motor/Prop/Lipo Combos?



helidoc25
16th September 2014, 01:52 AM
What you guys using for motors and props and how many cells?Oh and whats your Flight time? Maybe a format like this,

Motor
Prop
Cells
Flight time

Bladestrike
16th September 2014, 07:13 AM
Just started building

Motor cobra C-3510/16 (1200kv)
Prop APC 8x4
Cells 4S
Flight TBD

soto48
16th September 2014, 11:01 AM
I want to know too

Motor : Ritewing Z2 motor 1200kv /Scorpion SII 3008 1220kv
prop : 10 x 6 / 10x5 / 9x4.5
Cells : 4S
Flight : TBD

current stage :
http://31.media.tumblr.com/eebe0ed60418b454e8966b20a29c0785/tumblr_nbyyeg2N6k1qg28kro4_250.jpg

Need4Speed
16th September 2014, 01:18 PM
just the thread ive been waiting for! post up your setups and flight specs! (cruise and top speeds)

daggad
16th September 2014, 03:40 PM
Z3

Motor: OS OMA 3820 1200kv 155gr
ESC: Turnigy something..75A
Prop: APC 10x5
Battery: Nanotech 5000mah 4S
Flight time: About 20mins calm cruise it seems.

XtremeWingRC
16th September 2014, 04:50 PM
4S 6600
Hyperion 1300kv 197gram motor
Hitec 225MG
Castle 80 esc
8x8 maybe 10x5 later

Fpv gear still to come

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2222358

Manzooka
19th September 2014, 05:51 PM
Well, I was going to wait for Chris's 1300Kv motor but I just smashed one of my ZII's into a tree leaving me with an OS 3820 1200Kv looking for a home. So I'll probably start with the exact same power combo I've been running in that ZII.


OS 3820 1200Kv
Castle 75Amp ESC
2 4s 3300's
Aeronaut folding 10x6.... I also have some 9x6 I ordered on accident. Might try those as well.
Hitec 225mg's

I'll report on how it goes.

soto48
21st September 2014, 12:46 PM
I want to know too

Motor : Ritewing Z2 motor 1200kv /Scorpion SII 3008 1220kv
prop : 10 x 6 / 10x5 / 9x4.5
Cells : 4S
Flight : TBD


Update from my Maiden flight today, just a little bit triming on my stick and it flies on rail, I am impress how stable the Z3 is, Thank you Ritewing :)

Motor :Scorpion SII 3008 1220kv
Prop : Graupner 9x5
Esc : Platinum pro 50a
AUW : around 2kg without Gopro
vtx : 5.8 Aomway 1w
FC : Feiyu 41AP
Radio : Rangelink uhf
BatT : Dymond 7000Mah 4S
Flight Time 18 minutes, left 28% when landing
Top Speed : 98km/h

stubbed
21st September 2014, 05:05 PM
^-- Were you wide open throttle a lot? I'd be hoping for twice that flight time with 7000mAH?!

daggad
21st September 2014, 06:03 PM
I can't see why you should expect that stubbed if you dial these figures into eCalc you will see that they are very realistic.

stubbed
21st September 2014, 06:05 PM
Roger that - I must've made an error, will have another look.

Faffer
23rd September 2014, 08:13 AM
Not seeing the long flight times that Chris was talking about .. come on people .... I need to see some 40+ flying times .. or is it just the Ruby magic that gets it

Need4Speed
23rd September 2014, 01:24 PM
No one has chris' s motors, so realistically speaking, no one can replicate chris' s setup that gets his claimed specs. Until we get our hands on those magic motors, someone has to find an equivalent or better.

ritewing
23rd September 2014, 03:14 PM
A 6 to 8 amp 35 knot cruise with a ruby assist with a common 1200 kv 145 gram motor on a 10/5 to 10/6 is fairly common.


Keep in mind , that is a ruby, the new 1300 kv I have been using has had a ruby cruise at 25 knots at 60 to 80 watts , at an average of 2 to 3 amps, this was on a 4000 mahr 4s. We have seen this for our ag planes that are not ripping and are only needing low speed long durations carrying a down facing camera.
My fast planes with a 10/6 and 1250 kv on 4s 7100 fly at an average of 8 to 12 amps at 35 knots.
It all depends on you weights setups and flying styles.



No one has chris' s motors, so realistically speaking, no one can replicate chris' s setup that gets his claimed specs. Until we get our hands on those magic motors, someone has to find an equivalent or better.

Flyswamper
24th September 2014, 08:29 PM
Well... I just made my second flight. And after that I downloaded the logs from the ESC. Here is an image that should show most of the details of my setup and the consumption rates. The plane doesn't yet have any fpv gear on it. Just the servos and kit that came from Ritewing along with my ezUHF a little SMA extensions and a pair of dipoles. I do have a layer of ultra/monocote on it for color and the 5mil lam from ritewing outside of the ultracote.


Anyway... here's the specs and consumption I saw...

stubbed
24th September 2014, 09:27 PM
So that's 45 minutes flight time. FPV gear will add a bit of weight and suck some power, maybe 20%? So ~36 minutes with...

reddog7
24th September 2014, 10:47 PM
Motor - Turnigy Aerodrive SK3 3536 - 1200KV (111g)
Prop - Turnigy wood 9x6
ESC - Turnigy Plush 60 amp
Battery - Nanotech 4s 5000 or 6000.
Flight Time - TBD

I am trying to go as light as possible.

faber
25th September 2014, 01:30 AM
Motor: NTM propdrive 1400kv
ESC: Turnigy 80 amp
Prop: APC 10x5
Battery: Glacier 4000MAH 4s
Flight time ~30 minutes

Hand launched at 60% throttle

Flyswamper
25th September 2014, 01:58 PM
So that's 45 minutes flight time. FPV gear will add a bit of weight and suck some power, maybe 20%? So ~36 minutes with...

My math suggests that what I got without fpv gear would be about 36 minutes on my current setup. FPV gear would presumably reduce me down a bit from that.

I'm figuring...
Power usage: 2900 mah / 14.2 min = 204 mah/min
Battery Capacity: (5100+4200mah = 9300 mah bat capacity
Battery usage during flight: 80%
Power usage during flight: 9300 * 0.8 = 7440 mah
approx flight time: 7440 mah / ( 204 mah/min) = 36 mins

And... didn't mention it, but I have been successfully hand launching it with my setup... and I have done it with a sidearm throw as shown in my video (http://youtu.be/JaB8FMFhtjo?list=UUWCtPYMNpTGpPWNCmzprOoA) (I was flying much slower than shown in the video when I did the Castle ESC logs).


----added on edit----
Two more flights today trying to get my trims just right... Used ~ 4472 mah in 20.5 minutes of flying (avg of 218 mah/min)...flying a bit faster...probably 3/4 throttle.

pldb64
25th September 2014, 08:58 PM
Flyswamper's listing above about using batteries of different capacities raised a question in my mind - if you run these with a parallel connection, does running with different capacities mean you run the risk that the smaller battery will be depleted beyond the 80% safe limit? So in order to be safe do you have to run with the lowest common safe limit?

In the case of a 5100 + 4200 battery, 80% of 4200 is 3360. So to be safe, even though you've got 9300 total capacity, it should only be run to 6720 mah (3360 * 2) before the smaller battery is at the 80% threshold.

Have i got this right? Battery experts?

Flyswamper
25th September 2014, 09:03 PM
I wouldn't consider myself and expert, but... because the batteries are hooked up in parallel, the voltage in them should stay equalized. As such, provided they are the same chemistry/type... they should both get to the same ~ 80% limit at the same time. One caution that I'm aware of would include making *VERY SURE* the batteries are at equal voltage when you first hook them up. You don't want unrestricted current flowing from one battery to the other if there is a big voltage difference when you hook them up....recipe for disaster I would think.

So... in essence... you *can* add the capacities together. I.e. I should get roughly 7400 mah of (9300 * 0.8) usable flight time with my pair of batteries. Having said that, I've always been fairly cautious and tend to bring it home a bit earlier than that if I can.

londonguy
30th September 2014, 06:56 PM
Flyswamper's listing above about using batteries of different capacities raised a question in my mind - if you run these with a parallel connection, does running with different capacities mean you run the risk that the smaller battery will be depleted beyond the 80% safe limit? So in order to be safe do you have to run with the lowest common safe limit?

In the case of a 5100 + 4200 battery, 80% of 4200 is 3360. So to be safe, even though you've got 9300 total capacity, it should only be run to 6720 mah (3360 * 2) before the smaller battery is at the 80% threshold.

Have i got this right? Battery experts?

Running with mixed capacity packs is a bad idea in general. To be avoided in my opinion. You run the risk of smoking a pack prematurely.

Flyswamper
30th September 2014, 07:08 PM
I'd be interested to hear a technical reason for this concern.

londonguy
30th September 2014, 07:11 PM
Not seeing the long flight times that Chris was talking about .. come on people .... I need to see some 40+ flying times .. or is it just the Ruby magic that gets it

I don't think many people have actually tested the Z3 endurance properly yet and of course a ruby will minimise your power output better than manual flying ever will. It constantly balancing the throttle with the airspeed so you don't waste power unnecessarily.

I'm aiming for 40+ minute. I fly long-ish range so I need something to do a 10km trip at least and ideally 15. Will be another few weeks before I get a chance to fly though!

stubbed
30th September 2014, 09:43 PM
I'd be interested to hear a technical reason for this concern.

I think you're fine, for the reasons you've mentioned. If they're the same make, type, just different mah, in perfect conditions the voltages will go down at the same level and both batteries will each 80% at once.

soto48
30th September 2014, 10:25 PM
What about the C rating ? if I have two batt with the same cell but different C rating and different mah, will it end up at 80% at once ? thanks

Manzooka
30th September 2014, 10:52 PM
Running with mixed capacity packs is a bad idea in general. To be avoided in my opinion. You run the risk of smoking a pack prematurely.

I've "tested" this inadvertently when I had some new 5000mah and 3800mah bats of the same make and accidentally used that combo on a Goblin 700 heli instead of two 5000mah. Oops. It didn't more than a minute or two before I had to make an emergency landing and yank the seriously puffed and splitting 3800mah bat from the bird. Granted, the Goblin is far more demanding on batts than a ZII so I'm not sure if this is a fair comparison.

Edit: Nm, had these wired in series, duh :)

Flyswamper
30th September 2014, 10:56 PM
What about the C rating ? if I have two batt with the same cell but different C rating and different mah, will it end up at 80% at once ? thanks
Because they are wired in parallel, the voltages will be the same (or very nearly so) on both batteries...of this much I am fairly confident. Whether or not x.x volts in both batteries means they have used 80% or one was 78% and the other is 82% I am not as sure.

pldb64
30th September 2014, 11:25 PM
That's really my question. Yes i agree that the batteries will self level their voltages - this is the analogy of voltage being thought of as the amount of water held in the reservoir - so if you connect to reservoirs together, they will self level (ie you'll end up with the same voltage across both batteries). But the current draw on each of the batteries is what i think is more important here. If the internal resistance of both batteries is the same, then wouldn't you expect to see the same rate of current draw from each of the batteries? If that was the case, then i'd be expecting to reach the 80% of the smaller capacity battery quicker.

ritewing
1st October 2014, 12:03 AM
Your asking for troubles mixing non like cells, they all have different internal resistance and will not be running down the same, even if they are off by small amount , this can cause one bat to be just above its cut off and the other below, This will kill your battery that is over depleted.


I would not do it.

Flyswamper
1st October 2014, 08:23 AM
What you say makes sense. Perhaps I'm just naive in these matters, but it seems to me that if you've drained both batteries down so far as to be in the situation where one might be just above it's limit and the other slightly below the limit of being "over depleted" that you've already gotten them lower than you should have and have put them both at risk by draining them so low. Sure running them in parallel might nudge where that occurs just a bit... but (perhaps I'm just naive on this) it seems to me that running in them parallel wasn't the real issue there...running the voltage down way lower than you should was the problem.

This brings to mind one more aspect that seems important. In my case, I'm running two batteries in parallel that each have a C rating that is *PLENTY* sufficient to power the plane and gear all by itself. I'm simply putting two of them in parallel to either get more nose-weight and/or have more amp-hours available for flight time. If I was running batteries in parallel that had relatively low C ratings such that I really needed the combined C-rating of the batteries in parallel in order to power the plane... well... that does seem like it would pose greater risk. As it is, however, since each battery is fully capable of easily supplying the necessary current for the plane by itself I must admit that I just don't understand the risk/concern that is being raised.

zaraja
1st October 2014, 09:51 AM
Guys i have been using batteries in parallel and series since i started flying FPV and during these 2 years i never had any issue with them.

I did a mistake once when i forget to charge a battery and put it in parallel with two fully charged batteries so off course it was my mistake.

The rule of the thumb is;

For parallel make sure that the cell count is the same and each batteries has the discharge rating that can handle the required current draw and thats it.

For series make sure that the capacity and discharge of the individual cell is the same.



What you say makes sense. Perhaps I'm just naive in these matters, but it seems to me that if you've drained both batteries down so far as to be in the situation where one might be just above it's limit and the other slightly below the limit of being "over depleted" that you've already gotten them lower than you should have and have put them both at risk by draining them so low. Sure running them in parallel might nudge where that occurs just a bit... but (perhaps I'm just naive on this) it seems to me that running in them parallel wasn't the real issue there...running the voltage down way lower than you should was the problem.

This brings to mind one more aspect that seems important. In my case, I'm running two batteries in parallel that each have a C rating that is *PLENTY* sufficient to power the plane and gear all by itself. I'm simply putting two of them in parallel to either get more nose-weight and/or have more amp-hours available for flight time. If I was running batteries in parallel that had relatively low C ratings such that I really needed the combined C-rating of the batteries in parallel in order to power the plane... well... that does seem like it would pose greater risk. As it is, however, since each battery is fully capable of easily supplying the necessary current for the plane by itself I must admit that I just don't understand the risk/concern that is being raised.

ritewing
1st October 2014, 10:14 AM
Yes so have I, but as a rule of thumb I do not run batteries that are not of the same amp hour rating in parallel or series.. That is asking for trouble.

billyd
10th October 2014, 04:26 PM
I have a Hacker A30-8XL V3 on the shelf so I am using it with a 75 amp CC esc and 10x6 folding prop, with 2x 4sx3900 in parallel.

Should yield 1.2:1 thrust to weight.

ritewing
10th October 2014, 04:39 PM
Hey buddy, what's the kv

billyd
10th October 2014, 05:04 PM
Hey buddy, what's the kv


1100


Here's the motor: http://www.espritmodel.com/hacker-a30-8xl-motor-v3.aspx


Bought it awhile ago for something else that never got built.

ritewing
10th October 2014, 06:34 PM
I would use a 10/6 prop

billyd
10th October 2014, 07:10 PM
I would use a 10/6 prop



changed to 10x6!

afishindouban
13th October 2014, 07:36 PM
Yesterday I maiden of my Z3. share with your guys.

APC 10*5
Ritewing 1300KV + Ritwing 80A ESC (from Z2 combo)
Venom 5000mAh 25C
Paparazzi Autopilot(with Datalink and GPS)

Total weight 2200g, I made manual flight about 10 mins and LIPO voltage is still about 3.85. so I guess I can fly around 15 min. But this combo is really over powered for me. with 20% throttle I have speed around 18m/s (35kn). with full throttle, Its a jet, can goes to 30m/s (58kn). I have to configure and tuning it better to see how is the flight time with paparazzi control. I guess I can fly about within 25mins to 30 mins. I have to do test, tuning and also maybe need to change the motor and prop. I will keep you post.

By the way, the stability of this airframe is amazing. it is very easy to keep level fly and pitch, roll within 1 degree in a quit windy day. really really impressive.

afishindouban
14th October 2014, 07:43 PM
Is here anyone using paparazi UAV to fly Z3 ?

drumbum961
17th October 2014, 12:49 AM
Well crud Chris! I think your video just made up my mind. Gonna have to get me a Z3! I've been waiting for something that can be built super rigid and has verts in the center area of the fuse. No more winglet wiggles for me!!!!!! Holy crap I'm stoked! Now for the hard part, I gotta figure out how I'm going to pay for one :) Really happy you came out with this airframe man! Can't wait to get one!

KFM

drumbum961
25th December 2014, 04:13 PM
I haven't bought packs yet. I'm curious to hear what you guys would recommend to run with the ritewing 1300kv motor? I would like to get as good a flight time as possible. If I could get of 25 minutes or there about I would be happy.

KFM

carrera0to60
26th December 2014, 12:25 AM
Chris, whats the max draw you see with the Secret Sauce motor on a 10x6?

ritewing
26th December 2014, 12:27 AM
Usually 48 to 60 amps on 4s with 10/5 to 10/8

carrera0to60
26th December 2014, 12:42 PM
Great! Thanks for the quick response.
Usually 48 to 60 amps on 4s with 10/5 to 10/8

represent
9th January 2015, 11:12 PM
Umm wow! Just got the SS setup installed, wide open I'm seeing 60amps / 1000 watts. I guess the time has come for my Z3 to go vertical forever...

Can't wait to maiden with the new power system.

ritewing
9th January 2015, 11:14 PM
What prop are ya running?

represent
9th January 2015, 11:18 PM
APC 10x5E. AUW is 1958g / 4 lbs 5 oz

ritewing
9th January 2015, 11:21 PM
What current sensor, we fly apc 10/6 apc mostly, and sometimes a 10/8

represent
9th January 2015, 11:27 PM
I was using a Watts Up that I've had since 2010. Not sure how accurate it is. I'm not running an FC, just a Mobius and bare bones 5.8 system.

ritewing
9th January 2015, 11:44 PM
Cool ya it's off about 10 amps, it's pulling apx 50 amps wo here on my calibrated watt meter on a,10/5 and 55 on a 10 / 6 and 60 amps or so on a 10/8

represent
9th January 2015, 11:52 PM
That's great info. I will get some bigger props and try them. Thanks

Faffer
11th March 2015, 08:55 AM
Multistar High Capacity 4S 8000mAh Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack

Any one used one in a Z3 ?

643g 8000mAh 10C so its got the C as thats 80A weight is over what Chris uses but the price and i am hoping good flight time

or

ZIPPY Compact 6200mAh 4s 40c Lipo Pack

589g

This is what I am keeping my eye on but no UK stock but looks good price weight and mAh

My testing with be with a Zippy compact 5800 but needs weight adding to balance it out.

Richard

Faffer
11th March 2015, 09:09 AM
Cool ya it's off about 10 amps, it's pulling apx 50 amps wo here on my calibrated watt meter on a,10/5 and 55 on a 10 / 6 and 60 amps or so on a 10/8

mmmmm I have some 10x6 so will have to get a 10x8 should give it a bit more power and longer flights ?


Richard

daggad
16th March 2015, 04:38 PM
Did some flying with my Z3 in dead calm conditions this weekend. Here is the DVR to show how it does with the OS OMA 1200kv, Nanotech 5000 4S 40C, 9x6 APC.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TPrPf37u_E&feature=youtu.be

Faffer
25th March 2015, 10:33 AM
Well I have had a few flights not pushed time and still sorting out a few things
But it flying nice just need to get another day to test as my airspeed needed adjusting in placement

Looking forward to getting total time flying so I can push my distance later

Running a zippy compact 5800 (515g) and 40g weight but got my osd to count down from 5000 to be safe

But looking for some nice times as it's got a ruby :-)

Launching is so nice and works so well

BacklashRC
23rd June 2015, 12:10 PM
Faffer, did you ever try to balance the Z3 with the 8000 Multistar? Flight times? Is the C rating enough for good power? I am thinking about buying this same battery for the Z3.


Multistar High Capacity 4S 8000mAh Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack

Any one used one in a Z3 ?

643g 8000mAh 10C so its got the C as thats 80A weight is over what Chris uses but the price and i am hoping good flight time

or

ZIPPY Compact 6200mAh 4s 40c Lipo Pack

589g

This is what I am keeping my eye on but no UK stock but looks good price weight and mAh

My testing with be with a Zippy compact 5800 but needs weight adding to balance it out.

Richard

Faffer
24th June 2015, 07:33 AM
Faffer, did you ever try to balance the Z3 with the 8000 Multistar? Flight times? Is the C rating enough for good power? I am thinking about buying this same battery for the Z3.


Hi I decided to go with a kypom 4s 35C 6000

I have used the 4500 on on my TBS and find the Internal Resistance to be super and good power and they have lasted well .. so I decided to get some for my Z3


found the Zippy 5800 to be lacking in power when I was getting low and big voltage dips but the Kypom are still good to pull power even when low

Richard

Ps they are not cheap but worth it

BacklashRC
24th June 2015, 08:56 AM
Hi I decided to go with a kypom 4s 35C 6000

I have used the 4500 on on my TBS and find the Internal Resistance to be super and good power and they have lasted well .. so I decided to get some for my Z3


found the Zippy 5800 to be lacking in power when I was getting low and big voltage dips but the Kypom are still good to pull power even when low

Richard

Ps they are not cheap but worth it

Thanks for the reply!

crashsalot
30th June 2015, 06:52 PM
Here's my combo: Hacker A30-10L (1185kv) on a 3300/4S and a 9x6 prop. broke the prop and only had a 9x9 on hand. That makes the Z3 go ~100mph. Don't recommend it, though; peaks out at 75A @take off and 50A in flight. That's double the power the motor is rated for.
The Hacker is fine, even after this abuse.

londonguy
1st September 2015, 01:52 PM
I just ordered a 2000+ watt power system for a special Z3. What you think Chris am I crazy? :) How fast you pushed this thing in testing???

It's a one piece wing for strength with lots of additional sparring to stiffen it up further.

With a 7x7 prop calculator is saying around 95 amps, over 2000 watts.

http://i.imgur.com/nz4FImE.jpg

Hyperion HS3026-1400
YEP 120A ESC
6S-5000
HS-645MG Servos

ritewing
1st September 2015, 09:45 PM
I think it will do great, its a beast.
I have seen 140 mph on a dive on a z3.

londonguy
2nd September 2015, 10:50 AM
I think it will do great, its a beast.
I have seen 140 mph on a dive on a z3.

Awesome man this thing is going to tear up the sky.... Just testing out the power system. Damn this thing is scary. I think I'm gonna have to bungee launch it. I haven't even gone to full throttle yet.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JX_kB2TBbY

Flateric
24th October 2015, 09:38 PM
Has anyone tried a 6s setup with a large prop with endurance in mind or is this just a bad idea for a wing of this size due to torque the porp would cause in one direction and the minimum airspeeds required to keep the wing flyable?

londonguy
14th November 2015, 08:23 AM
Update: Hyperion 3014-12 / 1132kv + 11x5e APC prop

So I recently been flying in high altitude. With a launch from 2800m ASL.

So I was experimenting with a larger 11x5e prop on my setup. It worked perfectly for the most part. The launch from 2800m from on a hill with a headwind just to make sure but it cleared the ground nicely and took off well.

I also tried using that prop at sea-level and my cruise amp draw has dropped quite a bit. I am now cruising comfortably at 8 amps and doing around 60km/h - 38mph.

The only downside is the prop does get hit a bit more on landing. After maybe 20 landings on holiday I ended up replacing 3 props. I was landing in pretty rough rocky areas though. I think even a 10inch would have got knocked up quite a bit. If you are landing on grass then there is no issue.