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helizrnew2me
24th February 2014, 01:11 PM
i was looking for some extended arm videos but didnt find any .so if you have the extended arms and some video you shot with it please post up .
i would like longer arms but been on the fence because i hear the flat arms dont quell vibration as well as the gaui arms so thats why i am asking for video .

if you have good clean video from a ads 400q with longer(465) flat arms please post and include your motor and prop combo and how you have your gopro mounted .

thank you all.

schugabe
24th February 2014, 01:23 PM
Hi!


https://vimeo.com/86434389

I'm using the tiger 2216 1100kv motors with the gemfan carbon filled props but I do not recommend the propeller since in bright sunshine I do have some jello.
The goprop is hard mounted with some additional weight under it to remove some of the vibrations. I'm happy with the ads 400q-x but I hope that the jello stops completely with other props.

helizrnew2me
24th February 2014, 01:44 PM
looks pretty good to me .i use gemfans too same kind. i need the lift they provide since i can only run 8`s .the hubs are always way off but i do balance them and get good video .yours doesnt look bad at all .was it shot in 1080 mode?

schugabe
24th February 2014, 02:00 PM
Yes 1080p/30fps on gopro hero2. I'm also happy with the video I posted... the jello is only visible in bright sunshine which wasn't the case in the video.

helizrnew2me
24th February 2014, 02:03 PM
the gopro in its case or?right now mine is in its case and hard mounted with one of the flat mounts .when spring comes and i try fpv again it will come out the case and be strapped on the front plate .either way its jello free .but the short gaui arms make video a little jerky when you move around .longer arms smooth that action out alot .

schugabe
24th February 2014, 06:17 PM
I don't have the gopro in the case it is just strapped to the frame with velcro:42021

helizrnew2me
24th February 2014, 07:35 PM
mine currently, on the right

helizrnew2me
28th February 2014, 02:01 PM
wow ..only 1 member with extended arm videos?

chatch
1st March 2014, 09:39 AM
wow ..only 1 member with extended arm videos?

I've sold a lot more than that, I haven't kept track lately but at least a few hundred in the past few months.

helizrnew2me
1st March 2014, 09:44 AM
oh i`m sure .just waiting on more videos .they gotta be out there .

criccio
3rd March 2014, 10:51 PM
O I'll have plenty of video's once I get my 1100kv motors and the damn snow melts. Makes judging altitude.. sketchy.

Had a complete clean frame separation yesterday.. little CA on the bobbins, good as new.

airwolf
4th March 2014, 12:06 PM
I'm looking to see some video's too. It was a big let down to see jello in my video's on this new frame. I had high hopes and only later read that the flat arms tend to show more jello. I have tried every solution except a real ND filter and still have jello. I'm using a Mobius cam. Could have bought a $40 frame and had the same jello. Waiting to see some consistent jello free solutions :)

chatch
4th March 2014, 12:47 PM
What props are you guys using? The main reason 400Q was designed for 8" props is because all 9" props I can find are terrible quality. So I produced longer arms by popular demand, for those that want to use crappy props, and you get jello? It's not a surprise. The frame is separated and isolated, post pictures of your build. Your camera has to be firmly attached to the frame. If you are using a Mobius, it doesn't weigh enough to work as part of the dampening system. Make it heavier with lead or hot glue.

You may want to check out Spanky for mobius footage. The 400Q is for Hero3 cameras. Every component is an integral part of the vibration dampening solution. You can buy a QAV and you will still get the same results with a Mobius. Changing things like mass have consequences.

airwolf
4th March 2014, 01:11 PM
I have tried Graupner,Gemfans CF,HK props,APC, and some no names from ebay all balanced with no luck. Had hoped the weight of my shitty gimbal would help with this Mobius. I will try with my friends GoPro today and see what the results are. Check out Spanky? PASS I like my 400Q, just need to work out the damn jello. Besides I'm too far into this thing financially now :)

Derrick
4th March 2014, 01:26 PM
I have tried Graupner,Gemfans CF,HK props,APC, and some no names from ebay all balanced with no luck. Had hoped the weight of my shitty gimbal would help with this Mobius. I will try with my friends GoPro today and see what the results are. Check out Spanky? PASS I like my 400Q, just need to work out the damn jello. Besides I'm too far into this thing financially now :)

Try hard mounting your mobius... removing the gimbal. The reason that I suggest this is that no matter how much vibration isolation you have between the frame and the camera... a servo driven gimbal is subject to backlash in the gears. Backlash is essentially undamped motion due to tolerances in the gears, you can feel this by grabbing a servo horn and twisting it in both rotational directions the amount of rotation you get without making the motor spin is backlash.

If you are hard pressed to keep the servo gimbal then you can try a forced load to ensure that the gears are always hard up in one direction. This is best accomplished with a rubberband that tensions the servo in one rotation direction. You will have to experiment a little with this to get the right rubberband force, you want enough to remove the backlash but not so much as to always have the servo in a loaded state.

PS... I have both this frame and Spanky, since I built Spanky I have not even looked at this frame. The biggest reasons are cost, motors cost less, props cost less, escs cost less... this really helps to eliminate the pucker factor and let you do things that you wouldn't do with your bigger gear.

airwolf
4th March 2014, 01:41 PM
Thanks Derrick, I agree with you on the servo gimbal, I don't even use the gimbal, just tested it to see if the weight would help. I have tried hard mounting,moongel,earplugs,every kind of foam I could find,silicone tube, and Velcro with no success. This frame flies nice...its just no use to me with jello. Spanky is too small for me so I need to get this worked out. If a GoPro does it then I'll get one but not putting more money into this jello issue unless it is proven to work. I will test with a friends GoPro later today.

Derrick
4th March 2014, 02:05 PM
As Chatch said vibrations are all about mass, increasing or decreasing mass is the best way to alter the natural frequency of the system. As an aside mobius cameras seem to be very sensitive to vibrations, more so than GoPro or other name brand action cameras. I hope you get it sorted. I don't have much flight time on my 465 due to power distribution/video issues... It will be back on the bench soon to get these sorted though, just have a couple other topics that I need to finish first.

helizrnew2me
5th March 2014, 08:31 PM
i never had a mobius but i`m with everyone else here on this .it may in fact be the mobius itself .we all know what to expect from a gopro. the mobius may in fact be less tolerant to vibration then a gopro .
the second post in this thread has a gopro with extended arm frame and it looks pretty darn good to my eye .i am on the fence myself about switching because of the lack of good clean jello free videos to view with the extended arm setup .
my biggest issue with the small gaui arm setup is the jerkiness in the video you get from such a short arm . i could try some expo i guess as i really dont run any in the transmitter and only about 30 in the multiwii setup .

ps- i have the original black bobbins which work good since day 1 . my gopro is currently hard mounted with a flat mount .no jello .

criccio
5th March 2014, 08:45 PM
the mobius may in fact be less tolerant to vibration then a gopro .



If you lighten things up you are not going to make things less tolerant to vibration. As chatch has stated, you need mass/weight on the clean frame to dampen the vibrations. That's just physics.



my biggest issue with the small gaui arm setup is the jerkiness in the video you get from such a short arm

Small arms are not the reason for jerky video. Anything MidwestRob or juz70 have done (using a QAV400) are a testament to that.

chatch
5th March 2014, 09:30 PM
My goal is to help you eliminate the jello however you use the frame. I will post some tips later tonight. The biggest tip i can give is to not be afraid of a few grams of added weight - adding smashed lead weights in key locations helps to eliminate all vibrations from resonating throughout the frame. It is not needed in standard scenarios(non-gimbal hero3 for example) but for a servo-driven mobius gimbal it can be complicated, as there are many more variables introduced into the system.

The jello you see could just be from wind in forward flight. Is it still present in a stationary hover?

bruno222
5th March 2014, 10:17 PM
What props are you guys using? The main reason 400Q was designed for 8" props is because all 9" props I can find are terrible quality.

I use 9" HQprop and I'm enjoying it, it's not terrible quality... SS980kv + 9"HQprop are pretty good IMO. My last vid using this setup:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CybqN9p7qok

If you had sold a few extended arms, soon or later we will see some ADS465q acro videos using 9" props :)

My actual quad uses Wood Arms and is fu***cking painful to fix/change these arms every time I crash... It's just tooooo much work.. I intend to buy ADS465 frame because it's "crash proof", but I just want to make sure how it flies first watching some vids.

airwolf
5th March 2014, 11:18 PM
Bruno, I can tell you this frame flies very well. I really like it. I agree with these guys that my jello is due to the cheap way I have my cam set up. I have a Gopro 2 now to try out but its been raining and windy today. I also smashed some lead plates together to simulate the weight of a GoPro and try with the Mobius also. I will report back with my results. chatch makes good stuff and anyone who has contributed to the FPV community as he has is a good guy in my book :)

airwolf
5th March 2014, 11:24 PM
chatch, I don't plan on using this servo gimbal at all, just used it to see if the weight helped. The jello was still there during hover. I could only get a GoPro 2 to try but also weighed out some lead to try with the Mobius too.
My goal is to help you eliminate the jello however you use the frame. I will post some tips later tonight. The biggest tip i can give is to not be afraid of a few grams of added weight - adding smashed lead weights in key locations helps to eliminate all vibrations from resonating throughout the frame. It is not needed in standard scenarios(non-gimbal hero3 for example) but for a servo-driven mobius gimbal it can be complicated, as there are many more variables introduced into the system.

The jello you see could just be from wind in forward flight. Is it still present in a stationary hover?

airwolf
6th March 2014, 01:11 PM
Here is a video with the GoPro2. Much improved. Thanks for all your guys input. Thanks chatch for an awesome frame! Now I just need to do some minor PID tuning, change out these Gemfans and I'm set :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpVrfyf3PQQ&list=UUpt6jvueV7eZfefZ2YsL2_A&feature=c4-overview

helizrnew2me
6th March 2014, 06:49 PM
there ya go airwolf ,that wasnt bad .thats very similar results i get with my gaui arms . i fly line of sight ,but gonna try some fpv again come spring .why were your props in view?

criccio
6th March 2014, 06:50 PM
there ya go airwolf ,that wasnt bad .thats very similar results i get with my gaui arms . i fly line of sight ,but gonna try some fpv again come spring .why were your props in view?

If he was using 9" props with the Hero2 on Wide its going to happen. Happens with me too. I switched to Medium on my Hero 2 and its much better plus you minimize that fisheye effect.

helizrnew2me
6th March 2014, 06:58 PM
hhmmmm i shoot wide on my gaui arm frame with 8inch props (which i would think are much closer to the cam then 9`s are on extended arms) and no props in view .
hey schugabe ,

you using 9`s?you have extended arms right?no props in his video ,gotta get more info from him .

schugabe
7th March 2014, 09:52 AM
I have the extended arms and currently use 8'' props. When flying with the setting 1080p/wide on the gopro 2 props are in the view. With the setting medium no props are visible.

helizrnew2me
7th March 2014, 09:54 AM
have you ever tried 9 inch props?if so what were your findings?

schugabe
7th March 2014, 10:00 AM
I did not try the 9 inch props I ordered... the quad hovers @40% throttle so I had no reason to use the 9'' prop.

criccio
7th March 2014, 10:48 AM
Maiden with X2216 1100kv SunnySky's and 9" HQ Props tomorrow. I'm all about acrobatics and FFF so we'll see how it goes. Going to be a GoPro HERO2 in 1080p Medium.

My biggest concern will be jello. If needed I may have to add some weight to the clean frame.

chatch
7th March 2014, 12:43 PM
The extended arms were for the brushless gimbal craze! I did my best to line up the props so they will not be in view. The gimbals usually stick the camera out front a few centimeters further.

I have not tried the 9" HQ props, only their 3D props(which were awful), so I will try some to see if they are good.

criccio
7th March 2014, 12:49 PM
The 9" HQProps e-Prop is really great IMO. I'm going to compare them to APC's 9x4.7 MR tomorrow and see how they differ on 4S/2216-1100kv.

chatch
7th March 2014, 12:53 PM
I just had spacers laser cut for all 400Q frames. You know the circular nylon spacers you stack on the arms to give room for the ESC? Now there are just two squares to stack(each 1/8" thick) on each arm. It does not change the price of the frames. 1/4" thick ABS was too hard to cut with laser.

http://i.imgur.com/gg1xWwp.jpg

The default hole pattern fits both arm styles, but if you have OCD, and want the square to line up with the arm, rather than the frame(if you have 400Q-X you know how the holes are askew a few degrees) - I included hole patterns to allow the spacers to line up square with the skew holes.

helizrnew2me
7th March 2014, 01:05 PM
cool....good stuff coming .

criccio
11th March 2014, 08:17 PM
Still getting vibrations that i'm not happy with but at least the jello is gone.

Here is a raw video from after work today.. maybe just ditching the idea of 9" props and extended arms? I already went from my 900kv motors to these 1100's so I might as well go to 8" props as well. Eventually swap the arms out too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ANoPdvaUQ

Kyodai
11th March 2014, 10:56 PM
Still getting vibrations that i'm not happy with but at least the jello is gone.

Here is a raw video from after work today.. maybe just ditching the idea of 9" props and extended arms? I already went from my 900kv motors to these 1100's so I might as well go to 8" props as well. Eventually swap the arms out too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-ANoPdvaUQ

I dunno man, it looked pretty good to me! Listening in earphones, I picked up a slight motor surging under hard yaw conditions--might be that your yaw P is a little high. I am flying the same combination of 1100kv motors and HQ 9x5's. REALLY liking the amount of on-demand thrust I'm getting (a lot like the same motors on 8" slow-fly's but without the balance issues :)

I am noticing, however that I'm usually in the 17-18.5 amp range in a hover, compared to 15a with the same props and SunnySky 980's.

Off topic: How are you liking your RX-8? I miss mine :) Only two time I hated that car was in the snow, and at the pump :)

--Kyo

criccio
12th March 2014, 10:22 AM
Thanks! I'm torn. I think i'm just going to play with some more props to see what I like best. Anyone think that shuddering during FFF is a tuning issue? P is already pretty low (2.0/2.9) so maybe...

Ahh, the RX-8.. Bought new in 2003 and I still love it but as a daily, it's getting tiresome. I drove a 2014 Ford Fiesta ST a few weeks ago and fell in love with the usable torque that little turbo 1.6 makes and made the decision to sell the 8.

Wanna buy it? ;)

Kyodai
12th March 2014, 11:27 AM
Thanks! I'm torn. I think i'm just going to play with some more props to see what I like best. Anyone think that shuddering during FFF is a tuning issue? P is already pretty low (2.0/2.9) so maybe...

Ahh, the RX-8.. Bought new in 2003 and I still love it but as a daily, it's getting tiresome. I drove a 2014 Ford Fiesta ST a few weeks ago and fell in love with the usable torque that little turbo 1.6 makes and made the decision to sell the 8.

Wanna buy it?

Yeah, I made the move to a Mazdaspeed 6. AWD and a 2.3 direct-injected turbo--great in the snow, and with the work I've done on it, really hauls the mail :) Nothing feels as well balanced as that 8 in the twisties though!

FWIW, I'm fighting through some of the same issues (although on a different frame-Flip FPV Pro) but same motor and prop combo. I think I've finally gotten all the vibes sorted, but now the gains feel a bit loose. Here's a tuning flight from Sunday:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMUabByXnWc&feature=share&list=UU7vOXo6zlOD2yEX5PzF-o7Q

If my gains are a little higher than what I have here, I get vibes, which sets up a resonance in the bobbins and screws with the video. I think I'm close, but I need to raise P a little, then raise I until I get oscillations, then back off P a touch, and it should be pretty locked, and no resonance.

criccio
12th March 2014, 02:21 PM
What are your PID's, out of curiosity? That video actually looks really good.

Kyodai
12th March 2014, 04:22 PM
I'm actually using an original Openpilot Coptercontrol board, but I think aside from the decimal points, the values translate (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I'll post mine when I get home from work!

Failsafe
22nd March 2014, 11:02 AM
Here's the video he liar new me
I am using the long arm with 1100kv and 8x4.7 props
I bought the long arm because I wanted to run bigger props
But I found it more difficult to be nimble .
I don't have a go pro this is a mobius cam
And I have tried a fee different ways to get rid of jello
Hard mount , and moongel, the next will be
The fuel hose mount
Hopefully i can spring for a go pro soon
This is with moon gel http://youtu.be/ekJa2MBHf3M
This is hard mounted http://youtu.be/w_D884sHnvY
The build is
Ads400qx
Cc3d
Sunnysky 2216 1100
APC 8x4.7 sf

helizrnew2me
22nd March 2014, 11:17 AM
both are not terrible but the moongel one looked better to my eyes .

looks like you converted the video before upload . i do this as well and the result is some pix-elation in the video .

Failsafe
22nd March 2014, 11:26 AM
This is only my 2nd video editing so I really haven't a clue as to what I am doing entirely
Also did you notice how the color shifts ?

helizrnew2me
22nd March 2014, 11:33 AM
color shift is totally camera related ,the video is moving too fast for the cameras sensors to adjust color on the fly .you wouldnt see color shift like that on a steady or slow moving video .

and anytime a video is rendered before upload you lose some quality . i convert mine as well for best upload speeds to youtube .i use the converter in the gopro studio .not that its any better ,its made for gopro so.....

Failsafe
22nd March 2014, 01:06 PM
Should I be using 1080 30 fps or 720 60fps?

criccio
22nd March 2014, 01:13 PM
There is no "should", only what works best for you / looks best for you.

Me, I use 720p60 because I have a Hero2 and can't do 1080p60. The higher the framerate, the less susceptible you'll be to jello.

Failsafe
22nd March 2014, 01:48 PM
Ahaaa thanks that's what I was wanting to know
I will give that a shot
Thanks

helizrnew2me
22nd March 2014, 03:12 PM
so if your not having trouble with jello then use 1080p at 30fps. in the end youtube converts it down to 30fps anyway .

criccio
23rd March 2014, 04:27 PM
so if your not having trouble with jello then use 1080p at 30fps. in the end youtube converts it down to 30fps anyway .

Of course Youtube converts it down but that's different than recording in 60fps. The faster shutter speed is what helps not pick up jello. Once it's recorded, you can convert it to whatever framerate you like and the jello still won't be there.

I'm making this point mainly for those that thing 60 vs 30 fps doesn't matter just because Youtube will convert it to 30. It definitely does.

RoninFPV
23rd March 2014, 09:11 PM
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1806682&page=43

MY post on ADS400-q flat long arm not really any jello on calm days this was with windy day my post is on page 43.

video captured on gp hero 3 black 1080 w 60fps

helizrnew2me
27th March 2014, 11:20 AM
thanks for the add roninfpv.

chatch
1st April 2014, 03:06 AM
I might be doing a special build of this frame for myself. If I manage to have enough time.

helizrnew2me
16th April 2014, 07:54 PM
whats going to be special about your build?

chatch
16th April 2014, 09:16 PM
I'm using some different motors and am getting 22 minutes of flight time :). I will be posting some great gimbal footage when I can!

also: http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?18716-Silicone-RC-Bobbin-Vibration-Isolation-Dampeners/page15

Derrick
16th April 2014, 09:26 PM
That is fun, please post up the details, always looking for ways to extend my flight times.

D

Failsafe
17th April 2014, 04:36 PM
Update on my build , I sold my mobius and bought a gopro black though I haven't tried 1080 30fps , 1080 60 fps yielded perfect smooth video .
As soon as I can figure out my computer issue I am having with choppy playback on my video I'll post a few on youtube

chatch
19th April 2014, 01:24 AM
if it is intermittent stuttering, check your DPC latency. you could have a driver or service causing glitches in audio and video.

http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

http://www.thesycon.de/dpclat/dpclat2.jpg

Failsafe
19th April 2014, 10:14 AM
Thanks chatch , gonna give this a try .

Failsafe
19th April 2014, 10:40 AM
Oh and that video linked on your youtube page was awesome
"Cyber expert"

Failsafe
19th April 2014, 10:57 AM
Ok i checked my latency and it stands around 124-220 us with one spike to 700 but that's it
I have tried playing videos with vlc and QuickTime with zero luck . I had this problem as well when I tried to play back 60 fps from the möbius I thought it was the cam but bow I know it's not. I can preview the video in the cinema program from go pro but once I save it to disk it is shit !

Failsafe
21st April 2014, 07:48 AM
Ok here's a video from one of my Easter flights . I'm still having the choppy video issues but it seams to load up to youtube ok .
After retuning my cc3d for the added weight of the gopro I have it dialed in really good .
Instead of adjusting roll and pitch pids separate I used the mixer raise the pitch axis stabilization . 50/65/50
I'm loving this frame
Though I still am having issues figuring out a great way to mount the gopro with a layer lens http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ba3VS6aKG4&feature=youtu.be

chatch
21st April 2014, 08:54 PM
nice! here it is embedded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ba3VS6aKG4

Failsafe
21st April 2014, 09:21 PM
Thanks!

Dkemxr
30th September 2014, 12:05 PM
I know it's digging up an old thread but what became of the special build for longer flight times?

Failsafe
30th September 2014, 04:25 PM
I know it's digging up an old thread but what became of the special build for longer flight times?
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/30/9f8b4e1d5eebb0f97794e5337bcd6166.jpg
I built up my ads465 for op revolution gps testing. Using mt4006 and 10x4.7 apcs I was able to get some very impressive flight times out of 4s 3300mah lipos. I also completed a 5km auntonimous flight with this setup.
I'm sure it coukd have handled a much bigger batt for extended run times.

Dkemxr
30th September 2014, 08:07 PM
Thanks Failsafe, just what I was looking for.

chatch
1st October 2014, 03:52 AM
I ended up building a double Decker quad that took two 3300 4s batteries. Flew forever, 15-20 minutes hover but only 10-12 flying hard. I'm about to take it apart for the next project however.

PIEROGRAM
23rd January 2015, 12:23 PM
Last flight for a while on the Q-X.. Hello Spanky 6 :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC4E6RHu2Hk