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spiked3
21st June 2013, 12:22 PM
So, Catch, what is coming with the gimbal? Or is it in secret can not tell competitor mode?

I just got a 3D printer going.

1st parts to make = legs for 400Q.
2nd Part, thinking gimbal;

http://hackaday.com/2013/06/18/brushless-gimbal-3d-printed-and-bolted-to-quadcopter/

as inspiration, but then remembered you were doing something. I'm trying not to get in the habit of doing something myself and then you coming out with it before I finish :)

chatch
25th June 2013, 02:11 AM
someone made a gimbal already on shapeways http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=25073552&postcount=253

http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/8/1/8/6/6/a5802930-189-photo%201.jpg

http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/8/1/8/6/6/a5802931-222-photo%202.jpg

however i don't really like the flight time with a gimbal and everything. It's doable but you will only get 5-7 minutes flight time with the gimbal. This confuses me because when I checked over in the QAV540G thread, they were reporting only 8 minute flight times! So maybe I don't have much to compete with anyways :p

How about some longer arms to accompany a nice gimbal upgrade? I'll make a new thread.

spiked3
25th June 2013, 09:32 AM
Ok, thanks. I was thinking you were doing something specific. I guess the pile of gimbal circuit boards I saw in some earlier post was for timecop? I saw his thread about it, but I already forgot what it said, so it must not be far along.

Let's see, $45 for a pair of brushless gimbal motors, $35 for hardware controller, total $80, then $70 for 3 pieces of printed plastic, ummmm, no, we will see what we can come up with on our own.

Here is a design from a friend that works well. It adds additional vibration isolation. can be attached top or bottom. (scroll to end of page)

http://www.itsqv.com/QVW/index.php?title=Team_Black_Sheep_-_TBS_Discovery#Updates_and_Add_On.27s

chatch
25th June 2013, 12:01 PM
Do you have your own 3D printer? it should cost about $4 to print out a gimbal. They're very simple, I will see if I can draw this one.

spiked3
25th June 2013, 12:39 PM
http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?9282-The-3D-printing-repository/page35

I will do my own thing. So far I have not found anything that made stop and say "that is the one." But it will be closer to the one in the hackaday post. And I'll post the .STL files when it works. If people want to they can send me $70 </rollingeyes>

terabyte
26th June 2013, 12:47 AM
Im interested in a set of longer arms and gimbal parts.

chatch
7th July 2013, 01:39 AM
i'm seeing if i can get an injection mold created for the gimbal. if it's cheap it will be great. I will be able to make the gimbal only $15-20 or so.

terabyte
7th July 2013, 02:10 AM
now that would be pimp... injection molding is great for cheap parts... its the tooling that kills you.
one of my best friends is an engineer specializing in injection moldings. if you would like your design checked for manufacturing let me know and ill call in the favor.

flyboy321
8th July 2013, 11:59 AM
I call dibs on beta testing! Guess I'll need some bigger arms too...

chatch
8th July 2013, 12:02 PM
both arms work, but if you want more flight time the bigger arms are the way to go. Would you rather plastic parts or die-cast aluminum?

flyboy321
8th July 2013, 12:04 PM
Let me talk to my wallet...


He said he'd prefer the cheap plastic :D

terabyte
8th July 2013, 12:36 PM
my wallet agrees with flyboy

flyboy321
8th July 2013, 02:53 PM
Also, will you have the boards available chatch? I remember seeing a ton of the camera stabilizer boards in a picture of one of the quads.

chatch
8th July 2013, 03:40 PM
I will not have Martinez or Alex boards available.

Byro
8th July 2013, 08:16 PM
I think a clear resin would look great. I shall try at some point. After I fix my 3d printer... and make a mould

chatch
9th July 2013, 01:41 AM
I will definitely look at the 32 bit variant of blgimbal, for example:

http://shop.myairbot.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/54b2359dd2430bcca06ee462d488eb40/i/m/img_8788_.jpg

http://www.myairbot.com/download/EVVGCv1.2ConnectionDiagram.png

i would be happy to import these and sell for $45 or whatever(they are $35 in QTY 40 or more. shipping brings it to $40 my cost)

ZobZibZab
9th July 2013, 01:59 AM
3 axis, stm32, $45, sounds good :)

terabyte
9th July 2013, 08:12 AM
I would be down for one after ive seen how well they work.

flyboy321
9th July 2013, 09:19 AM
Are you designing the gimbal to be 2 or 3 axis?

My votes for the 2 just to save some weight on the 400Q

viper522
9th July 2013, 11:57 AM
Do you have your own 3D printer? it should cost about $0.40 to print out a gimbal.

Corrected

.Joel
15th July 2013, 01:32 AM
both arms work, but if you want more flight time the bigger arms are the way to go. Would you rather plastic parts or die-cast aluminum?

Plastic, I don't understand this trend to go to metal arms and shift the breaking point to the plates. I would much rather snap an arm, few screws off to change it over than fluff with the whole frame.

chatch, being plastic do you think this would again reduce the vibrations opposed to the aluminium arms? Moving to bigger props more vibrations compared to smaller props? Plastic arms could be a real benefit then if they soak up the vibrations better.

My ass cheeks are unclenching my wallet the more I watch the 465Q thread.

chatch
15th July 2013, 05:20 AM
with these new bobbins I have, I don't think vibration will be an issue.

bigger props lower the natural frequency of the "system" that has to be overcome by the vibration isolators. these should work with up to 12x6 props.

if jello is an issue i can do a "double up" plate. look at the mini quad thread I just made, see how the bobbins are there? on the gimbal, it would be 2 sets of separation before hitting the dirty frame. it's sort of hard to type out how it looks but I can draw it later

.Joel
15th July 2013, 05:42 AM
with these new bobbins I have, I don't think vibration will be an issue.

Cool, make sure you paint them some bright colour and call them "special bobbins" :cool:




if jello is an issue i can do a "double up" plate. look at the mini quad thread I just made
I didn't notice the plate at first, nifty, double isolation from the motors & props.

ssassen
15th July 2013, 06:09 AM
I will definitely look at the 32 bit variant of blgimbal, for example:

http://shop.myairbot.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/54b2359dd2430bcca06ee462d488eb40/i/m/img_8788_.jpg

http://www.myairbot.com/download/EVVGCv1.2ConnectionDiagram.png

i would be happy to import these and sell for $45 or whatever(they are $35 in QTY 40 or more. shipping brings it to $40 my cost)

Why don't you go 4-layer and put the FETs on the backside, this board could be about 1/2 the size in that case?

chatch
15th July 2013, 06:54 AM
that's doable for sure. I'd like to aim for 36x36mm with 30.5mm mounting holes as usual. i'm not in charge of the hardware layout/design so all i can do is ask :p

ssassen
15th July 2013, 07:47 AM
that's doable for sure. I'd like to aim for 36x36mm with 30.5mm mounting holes as usual. i'm not in charge of the hardware layout/design so all i can do is ask :p

You're not? You're the guy they hired for marketing? :D

ssassen
15th July 2013, 07:48 AM
that's doable for sure. I'd like to aim for 36x36mm with 30.5mm mounting holes as usual. i'm not in charge of the hardware layout/design so all i can do is ask :p

And yes, 36x36 with std. hole spacing makes perfect sense to me.

spiked3
15th July 2013, 10:27 AM
and round corners

chatch
15th July 2013, 10:30 AM
LOL yes :p

ssassen
15th July 2013, 10:33 AM
and round corners

Round holes too? :D

.Joel
15th July 2013, 10:38 AM
and round corners

hahahhaha, clever ;)

chatch
15th July 2013, 10:38 AM
I think he was talking about this http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?13873-Multiboot-controller-CC3D-compatible-FC-for-25&p=301135&viewfull=1#post301135

:)

.Joel
15th July 2013, 10:41 AM
I think he was talking about this http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?13873-Multiboot-controller-CC3D-compatible-FC-for-25&p=301135&viewfull=1#post301135

:)

Read that post about 10 minutes before you posted the gimbal controller, I was just patient in waiting for you to bring it up instead :p

hawaiitaco
26th July 2013, 06:21 AM
subbed

scotth72
1st August 2013, 11:04 PM
I got mine together finally. First tests seem very promising. I am using 400q frame plates, but custom 450 heli boom arms. 2216 900kv motors. I lose some weight with my arms, so still 8 inch props. 1420 grams currently, but I need to add fpv gear back on. The flight cam needs to be quite high to clear the gimbal, so that will take some mount fabrication. Gimbal is Beholder light, I just did not use any of the mounts for phantom. It is designed for Hero 3 but I just flipped tray and installed Hero 2. I reversed Z axis in Gui. Gimbal still balances fine. Video shows some roll oscillation, I will tune that out tomorrow. Dark thirty here now.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o6dBUdIK3dQ/UfsYnEvSe7I/AAAAAAAAHBA/xLc4wqeL5MI/w800/IMAG0051.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UlxY1jhEOYI/UfsYnEXESHI/AAAAAAAAHBE/TvxdLkM2vqA/w800/IMAG0053_BURST002.jpg

Vid:

http://youtu.be/NcOt4VdxH1c

gnrc
28th August 2013, 03:56 PM
So any news on the molding?

chatch
28th August 2013, 09:01 PM
trying my best, finishing the mini quad + gimbal ASAP. orders are caught up except for ones that came in today. just got more hardware in. i'll be switching over to black screws for the RMRC frames(vs. normal stainless).

also working on custom motors for the mini quad.

viper522
29th August 2013, 04:43 PM
Gimbala! Pretty sure I can still put the FPV cam on the lower shelf and get a clear shot under the GoPro.

gnrc
29th August 2013, 07:56 PM
Gimbala! Pretty sure I can still put the FPV cam on the lower shelf and get a clear shot under the GoPro.

That is rather nice, specially considering the cog isn't affected as much.

hawaiitaco
20th September 2013, 05:09 PM
http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/10172/Bored-cute-big-smiley-animated-066.gif (http://www.smileyvault.com/)

chatch
20th September 2013, 07:47 PM
lol taco I will give you the first gimbal ever produced 100% free. You've been waiting forever

viper522
20th September 2013, 08:28 PM
For about a minute I thought I was going to be printing one

chatch
20th September 2013, 09:13 PM
yeah im like 15 orders behind right now... should be cleared out tomorrow. i don't have spare time for anything, I flew exactly twice the whole summer. Pecan patch and in NC.

viper522
20th September 2013, 09:44 PM
That's harsh, hopefully getting some stock to rmrc will alleviate the burden.

hawaiitaco
20th September 2013, 11:19 PM
lol taco I will give you the first gimbal ever produced 100% free. You've been waiting forever

haha im just messin with ya....go back to studying and failing exams...

chatch
26th September 2013, 09:45 AM
http://www.rctimer.com/syssite/home/shop/1/pictures/productsimg/big/972.jpg

looks interesting :)

hawaiitaco
26th September 2013, 01:15 PM
http://www.rctimer.com/syssite/home/shop/1/pictures/productsimg/big/972.jpg

looks interesting :)

No 2212?

viper522
26th September 2013, 01:38 PM
The thru-hole would alleviate some design limitations...

hawaiitaco
26th September 2013, 02:02 PM
The thru-hole would alleviate some design limitations...

woah..didnt even notice that (just glanced)

p25o1
17th November 2013, 03:08 PM
waiting for the chatch edition gimbal (eagerly)

chatch
19th November 2013, 08:40 PM
i will work on this tonight.

p25o1
20th November 2013, 10:16 AM
i will work on this tonight.

sweet!!

i should receive the extended arms any time soon, will make sure my quad is ready for this
800kva sunny sky and 10x4.5 apc props are ready to be installed.

cofl1001
26th November 2013, 10:01 PM
Any news on the bl gimbal?
Did I understand correct? the extended version of your 400q will be called 465 Q? So if I need it just choose the longer arms and it's the 465Q, right?

chatch
27th November 2013, 12:19 AM
Tim @ RMRC renamed it 400Q-X, for extended arms. it is 465mm. I'll be working all tomorrow on the gimbal. I had a huge project due today @ 9am that ate a lot of my time. I will be releasing a few products very soon.

cofl1001
27th November 2013, 01:38 AM
Hi
On readymaderc only the ads400q is listed with no possibility to choose other arms...?

chatch
27th November 2013, 02:19 AM
they will be in stock next week! Or you can order from realfpv.com/buy.html and I can ship today.

p25o1
4th December 2013, 01:38 PM
ADS400 upgraded with long arms, sunnysky 800kva, 10" APC props.

Its looking for its gimble now lool

36275

scotth72
4th December 2013, 01:59 PM
The Beholder Lite works well, or you could try this one: http://klinkeraerospace.com/brushless-gimbal-tech-specs.html. I have no experience with it, but the price is right.

chatch
8th June 2014, 06:30 PM
hi guys, I realize this gimbal is way overdue. I have been working on finalizing it this weekend. There are a lot of considerations to be made.

here are the things I have to balance:

a) size constraints
b) weight constraints
c) overall engineering(proper balance)
d) compatibility (consider what motors people will use etc) <-- each motor has a different weight, and this affects balance
e) strength <- this is balanced with a) and b)
f) product design for manufacturing and assembly <-- simple things like an extra fillet could add 20-50% to the production cost or production time. example:
http://i.imgur.com/za52m1M.png


I can assure you I have not cut corners. I have no interest in selling one of 1000 mediocre gimbals you guys get to choose from. This is not a mediocre product.

http://i.imgur.com/OR5djLm.jpg

chatch
8th June 2014, 10:34 PM
had a real brain fart there. shoutout to the guys in IRC for telling me to flip it around :p

http://i.imgur.com/NG5YdXw.png

flyboy321
9th June 2014, 08:08 AM
Awesome! What are the recommended motors? Approximate cost?

p25o1
9th June 2014, 12:48 PM
nice to see you back , and happy to see that you are working on a gimbal.

chatch
9th June 2014, 07:45 PM
Awesome! What are the recommended motors? Approximate cost?

I have optimized the gimbal in the following manner:

GoPro Hero3: Use 2212 gimbal motor about 55 grams. RCTimer works. Compatible with Tiger/Lumenier motors as well(but they are out of stock).

SJ4000 HD Camera: Use 2208 gimbal motor for balance, or you will need to add a 25g weight to the camera if using 2212 motor.

25g is about two cubic centimeters of plumbum. Just smash a lead fishing weight and hot glue it on there chatch style :)

SJ4000 is 50-55 grams. Hero3 is 75 grams.

Cost: undecided as I have yet to get a quote from the manufacturer, but it will be way less than $150. I will work with retailers to provide a package so you guys can pull the trigger and receive nearly everything(or absolutely everything) you need to build a complete working gimbal.

carsonco
9th June 2014, 08:43 PM
Looks good.

Stringer
9th June 2014, 10:48 PM
Any plans for a möbius version?

chatch
11th June 2014, 12:12 AM
Any plans for a möbius version?

Not at the moment! It's a lower priority than other things on my plate. I can draw one up and put it on shapeways I guess. I really fret over the smallest details and that is what causes delays with my new products.

Here's a look at what I'm currently doing. For the best gimbal experience on 400Q-X you will need to remove the front part of the clean plate. I will offer a removable replacement in the near future.
When I'm happy with the placement I'll draw an arm to connect the gimbal to the frame. For regular 400Q I'll be posting shortly.

http://i.imgur.com/Pd1CgON.png

http://i.imgur.com/Pd1CgON.png

chatch
11th June 2014, 07:41 AM
http://i.imgur.com/MKRPW4M.png

chatch
11th June 2014, 07:51 AM
http://i.imgur.com/P1vRXIF.png

http://i.imgur.com/mJKyNOn.png

chatch
11th June 2014, 10:49 AM
CG is nearly perfect.

http://i.imgur.com/zzGv7pS.png

gnrc
11th June 2014, 11:05 AM
Do you think http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__43037__2206_140Kv_Brushless_Gimbal_Motor_Ideal_f or_GoPro_style_Cameras_.html + sj4k will balance out okay?

Derrick
11th June 2014, 12:55 PM
Looking good...

Quick thought, why have the dual brackets when you could mount the roll motor back on the support that is bolted to the frame (like the FlyingCinema Gimbal). The big advantage with this method is less wiring to route through rotating joints creating external forces as the axis rotate.

chatch
11th June 2014, 11:38 PM
Slip rings take care of this(non existent) issue, and the gimbal is compatible with motors with a hollow center if routing wires gets your panties in a bunch.

The FlyingCinema Gimbal, along with all the other Hero3 gimbals are very touchy on the pitch axis. The moment around each axis is very different. My configuration allows a wider range of motors to be used, and nearly equal PID settings for roll and pitch. I will do a separate post about this when I have time. I'll put it this way - my gimbal was designed by an engineer, and FlyingCinema was designed by.... a designer.

chatch
11th June 2014, 11:45 PM
Do you think http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__43037__2206_140Kv_Brushless_Gimbal_Motor_Ideal_f or_GoPro_style_Cameras_.html + sj4k will balance out okay?

roll is balanced, you will need to add about 1-2 gram to the SJ4000 for a perfect balance on pitch. There will be 75g*mm torque wanting to roll the SJ4000 forward. to put this in perspective, that is about 1% load on the motor.

HobbyLife
16th June 2014, 10:46 PM
Whats the ETA Mr. Engineer

Aloha
Alex

chatch
17th June 2014, 12:54 AM
http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?30670-A-360-degree-GoPro-brushless-gimbal