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View Full Version : ADS 400Q FPV Quadcopter Frame from RealFPV.com - Crashproof and JELLO PROOF!



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chatch
10th January 2013, 12:39 AM
Here's a new thread for the refined design.

There are 2 arm styles:
Gaui - the 3 part assembly leaves more space for ESC and distro board.
Flat G10 - one piece of G10 machined to be as strong as possible.
http://i.imgur.com/CKgiMY9.png

This frame is your go-to acro sport FPV frame that can take a HD camera along for the ride - without nasty jello in the video! It is designed to be as crash resistant as possible. To squeeze every bit of performance out of the frame, I kept it RF transparent. All parts are G10 fiberglass and there is no power distribution board that will mess with your video signal. It performs as well as you build it. Use shielded wires and space your components to maximize range and performance.

So how crash resistant is it? Check out this post: http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?11472-400Q-Frame&p=256157&viewfull=1#post256157
Video included of the crash that would ruin the majority of other frames.



http://i.imgur.com/ygYYp7n.jpg
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n151/blueprintMR2/photo1-4_zpsd71e9b6c.jpg
^^ courtesy of blueprint

Gottahunt
14th January 2013, 12:29 AM
1946419463194621946119460


Love this frame. She's sporting the Naza right now. Flies great and I am very impressed with how easy it is to get smooth video. I am running NTM 28-26 1200KVs but I had Sunnysky 2212 980KV and it flew great with them also. RCTimer flashed ESCs. 8 inch gemfan carbon filled props. Plenty of room for all the FPV stuff including the TBS core. This thing screems with 3S and I just stuck a 4S in it to test out. Soon as the wind dies down, I will post video. Great frame.

terabyte
19th January 2013, 07:48 PM
this is one tough quad.

chatch
19th January 2013, 09:28 PM
seomething was definitely up with that CC board or something. that really sucks

Gottahunt
19th January 2013, 09:58 PM
The weathers been great and I have flown the past two days. Sure is nice. . . Deer season is over so all of Bambi's relatives are showing themselves. Had to scout out some of my ground. Here's a clip filmed with the 400Q. Best watched as 720. Still had some wobbles to work out. The tune today was much better. More to come. Love'n this frame. This is flown with 4S but I think it is flying much smoother with 3S and the Naza. Still playing with the numbers. . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvYNxxAl-hw

flyboy321
19th January 2013, 10:31 PM
price?

postaL
10th February 2013, 01:06 PM
can't wait to get my hands on one!

MidwestRob
17th February 2013, 12:12 AM
A few pictures of my 400Q test assembly. The fit and finish is much better than I expected. The frame is very light but extremely rigid. Great FPV quad for the price. I'm looking forward getting it in the air soon.

213982139921400

Joesa3rd
28th February 2013, 09:30 PM
Got the rig in the mail today and looks good. What prop brand and size are you recommending for use with the Tiger MT-2216-11 900Kv on the 400Q with 4S?

What's the grommets used for when the feet don't come with the correct size spacer or am I missing parts here?

terabyte
28th February 2013, 09:33 PM
gemfam 8x4.5

chatch
28th February 2013, 10:09 PM
The 25mm nylon spacers go on the bottom of the feet, trim them down about 1mm with a dremel or hobby knife. Landing gear go on the outside of the legs.

MidwestRob
1st March 2013, 12:47 AM
I plan on using these http://www.diyquadcopters.com/Carbon-Fiber-08x45--2cw-2ccw_p_37.html when I get my 1100kv motors in the mail. Best price for a full set of carbon fiber props I've seen that are sold in the states. I haven't had the chance to use them yet, but they appear to be very high quality.

Gottahunt
1st March 2013, 01:05 AM
I think these are RCTimer CF props. Not sure if there are any differences. These are in the US also. Never bought from these guys but plan on buying some props from them. They are located in Texas.
http://www.uavobjects.com/index.php?id_product=42&controller=product

It does say they have a 6mm hole. What are the Gemfan's?

chatch
1st March 2013, 01:30 AM
I think these are RCTimer CF props. Not sure if there are any differences. These are in the US also. Never bought from these guys but plan on buying some props from them. They are located in Texas.
http://www.uavobjects.com/index.php?id_product=42&controller=product

It does say they have a 6mm hole. What are the Gemfan's?
5mm. i use Dan philips @ diyquadcopters for props.

Gottahunt
1st March 2013, 01:43 AM
I would want the 5mm also. I tried to order some from Dan last week but he is out right now. I will wait.

postaL
1st March 2013, 01:45 AM
5mm. i use Dan philips @ diyquadcopters for props.

no you don't. :P

chatch
1st March 2013, 01:51 AM
no you don't. :P

unless you got some in stock lol

postaL
1st March 2013, 02:22 AM
Store launches tomorrow. Got a whole bunch of those lovely GemFans in stock. Also got your frame in stock... looking forward to putting one together and getting it airborne!

chatch
1st March 2013, 06:00 AM
nice. i'm getting like 20 more frames in next week lol

Joesa3rd
1st March 2013, 09:02 AM
Great info in props guys, thanks...

PostaL,
New Store Link?

chatch
1st March 2013, 01:54 PM
http://www.multirotorsuperstore.com/Default.asp

terabyte
1st March 2013, 09:35 PM
The quad is rewired without the TBS Core. Hopefully will get some range testing and some flying done this weekend.

Components used to replace the Core;

DPCAV SEPIC Regulator for 12v to video transmitter (http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/Adjustable-Voltage-Regulator-1-35V-SEPIC-Type.html)
DPCAV LC Filter (http://www.dpcav.com/xcart/Power-Supply-Filter-L-C-Type.html)
HobbyKing low noise UBEC (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__4319__TURNIGY_3A_UBEC_w_Noise_Reduction.html)
HobbyKing Simple mini osd with RSSI mods (http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?3146-Super-Simple-OSD-Mods-(4s-RSSI))
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8520320626_4463cb523c_b.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8230/8519206675_c86c8495ab_b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UyB4MDq.jpg

chatch
1st March 2013, 09:48 PM
good shit, those dyed spacers are awesome. i have a huge bag of them, can i dye the whole bag black?

terabyte
1st March 2013, 11:22 PM
I did like 20 at the same time

Joesa3rd
2nd March 2013, 12:05 AM
Find an old pan get some black rit dye dump about half the dye into the pan with a couple quarts of water and then cook all those nylon parts on the stove for as long as you need for a deep black. This is what we did back in the rc10 days.

chatch
2nd March 2013, 12:20 AM
I'll do that, thanks

hadriez
2nd March 2013, 06:45 AM
i think i gotta get one of this frame.. looks really nice.

postaL
4th March 2013, 02:05 PM
Mine is almost done being put together, will post pics soon!

ps. awesome frame so far

postaL
5th March 2013, 01:53 AM
omg wiring is done!

http://i.imgur.com/ey54uqv.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/ey54uqv)

hadriez
5th March 2013, 02:10 AM
nice! I have to ask, are those lipo 4s? and what's the capacity of it?
I have a truck loads of 4s 3000 and 3300 only. since this frame looks narrow, would it fit?
Looking forward once it is all set to fly :)

postaL
5th March 2013, 02:13 AM
I have a brick of a 4S 5000mah hanging below it at the moment. The lil one you see hanging off the back is a 3S 950mah for the fpv gear. 4S 3000 & 3300 would be the perfect size, I just don't have any at the moment. From what I've heard, this frame and these motors should have no issues putting it in the air. I had to hang the battery on the bottom of the frame, because it wouldn't fit between the clean frame pillars. Seems like the proper place to put it, since if it hung off the back, you'd have to put a lot of weight in the front to counter that. Thing is, w/ the stock landing gear, not much will fit below... I added a generic 450 sized heli landing gear to this and it seems to be perfect.

hadriez
5th March 2013, 02:45 AM
yeah was afraid that 4s 3300 won't fit in between the standoffs at the clean section. thanks for the info!

MidwestRob
5th March 2013, 02:59 AM
Hey Hadriez. I've got this frame and my 4S 3300 battery fits it perfectly. Almost too perfect, you hardly have to strap it down because the standoffs hold the battery in place. Your batteries should fit it just fine.

MidwestRob
5th March 2013, 03:04 AM
I just measured the distance between the standoffs and it's 42mm.

chatch
5th March 2013, 03:45 AM
it should be 43.5mm. I made each set of holes fit the 2 standard lipo sizes. 3S packs under 3000mAh fit the inside holes at 34mm. The outside holes are for 4S batteries 3300-3700mAh at 43.5mm

this is so you don't need velcro straps. Just slide the battery in.

terabyte
5th March 2013, 10:58 AM
4s 3300 fit so good that I dont need straps. make sure the spacers are with the flats facing in.

hadriez
5th March 2013, 11:24 AM
ahh good know that.
for the spacers, i might just use the shiny red tbs disco spacers. i have a set of spares.

terabyte
5th March 2013, 11:33 AM
you wont need them. :)

chatch
17th March 2013, 02:04 AM
i'll be getting more frames in monday. shipping will be fast this week. no more waiting :D

brock-samson
17th March 2013, 05:39 PM
Wow you are fast :) My frame is waiting for me at the post office! How do the NTM 2826 1200kv motors feel on this frame? The plan is to put some better motors on it in the future but I have a bunch of NTM's I am looking to put to use.

postaL
17th March 2013, 06:06 PM
Wow you are fast :) My frame is waiting for me at the post office! How do the NTM 2826 1200kv motors feel on this frame? The plan is to put some better motors on it in the future but I have a bunch of NTM's I am looking to put to use.

I'm using some 2826 1350kvs at the moment until my sunnysky 2216 1250kvs come in. These motors seem a little rough, and slightly off balance, but it still flys well. Not sure how the 1200s are going to be but they should manage.

chatch
17th March 2013, 06:46 PM
Wow you are fast :) My frame is waiting for me at the post office! How do the NTM 2826 1200kv motors feel on this frame? The plan is to put some better motors on it in the future but I have a bunch of NTM's I am looking to put to use.

the NTM are great. that's what this frame was for! I wanted a frame that uses cheap 8" props and normal 28-26 motors. On 4S, the motors max out around 80-85% throttle. The core becomes saturated and you don't see any increase in RPM past that point

Gottahunt
17th March 2013, 06:47 PM
NTM 2826 1200KVs work great on mine. They will start to rattle and make noise though. Some start out that way but they fly great. Plenty of zip.

brock-samson
17th March 2013, 07:37 PM
Thanks for the replies guys, this is good news! I can put my NTM's to good use once I clean the cobwebs off lol. I will post my build pic when the fpv equipment shows up. I cant wait to maiden this thing! :)

hadriez
18th March 2013, 04:32 PM
the frame/motors is in my local post office now! wohoo!

Joesa3rd
24th March 2013, 10:51 AM
Built, LOS tested, tuned, and now ready for some FPV gear. Seems to have some go on 4s with the MT2216-9 1100Kv (8"x4.5 Gemfan carbon reinforced props).

http://i.imgur.com/WcpTP1c.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/v2suQDU.jpg

WillM
24th March 2013, 11:13 AM
Wow! Looks CLEAN, Joe! Very nice.

hadriez
24th March 2013, 11:14 AM
very nice build !

terabyte
24th March 2013, 11:15 AM
Wow! Looks CLEAN, Joe! Very nice.
+1 that is a darn nice build. good job.

hadriez
24th March 2013, 11:16 AM
here's my machine.. not pretty as yours though :D

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q514/hadriez/ed848133-85e8-4677-a1f1-23269ba2c0eb_zpsf77c5ae7.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q514/hadriez/e1a565cc-3b0e-47bb-b14d-78323564698c_zpsbd1c06dd.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q514/hadriez/ff085d1c-3989-483e-b3fc-c3dde2371d46_zpsd043ed3c.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q514/hadriez/bb47b87d-c67c-410f-a44e-fc5fba6d7592_zps3ff5d448.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q514/hadriez/cdb1214a-6534-4a69-9d4c-3db3dcc25e7f_zps0ca81130.jpg

http://i1161.photobucket.com/albums/q514/hadriez/097a965d-e8f6-4c1e-a781-40e91673baee_zps83a9f5d9.jpg

chatch
24th March 2013, 01:34 PM
nice :D

both builds are cleaner than my own LOL

Joesa3rd
24th March 2013, 05:39 PM
Thanks guys... Hadriez, Nice build...

I added a few more accessories earlier today and now this rig is FPV certified. I have a feeling this one is going to be a good time.

http://i.imgur.com/V6PhETu.jpg

Gottahunt
24th March 2013, 07:26 PM
Great looking builds guys. Now let's seem them flyyyyyyy!

Joesa3rd
24th March 2013, 07:56 PM
All I've got is some crazy boring video footage as of now but as soon as I can get some free time I'll post something worthwhile, well as worthwhile as a lame duck can post :). GoPro 3 Silver 1080p 30fps looks strong thus far, no Jello. I think this is going to be a great bird. I might make some mods but not till I find any weak spots or short comings. It's no Tricopter so it can only get so good regardless ;)

chatch
24th March 2013, 09:23 PM
got around to updating images on the site. back to studying. i still have to put in a button for "spare flat arm"


summary of changes:
chopped off the back
moved the tab on the camera plate before the first spacer
after looking at lots of builds, took out unused holes in the Gaui style arms. took the 4mm slot out, shrunk the width by 2mm.
cleaned up the top plate, wider zip tie slots so a servo lead fits through
removed the "triangles", just a flat bottom is stiff and gives lots of surface area for velcro.
More space for ESC
Two holes for SMA mounts. to screw on a cloverleaf directly and to mount UHF antenna
You should be able to reach in and unplug ESC/rx wire from Naze32, KK board and CC3D without removing top plate.
velcro slots fit to Hero3 cameras.

Parts are interchangeable. If you order a spare arm and have a frame from January it still fits.

http://realfpv.com/images/400/img_sceen02_3_7_3.png

http://www.aerialdesign.net/images/main/img_main.png

http://realfpv.com/images/400/img_sceen032.png

chatch
25th March 2013, 04:26 AM
orders like this make me happy :D. Here's what I hope it means:

-they crashed, probably more than once(not happy about crashing part for them of course)
-only the landing gear broke :D

http://i.imgur.com/wt17rmS.png

I crashed on Saturday(empty battery = fall out of sky), broke a couple props but everything is still intact. Put new props on and flew another 3 packs

Steezus
25th March 2013, 04:29 AM
New updates look even more badass. Did these changes make it into the batch of frames that you are sending out to me by chance?

chatch
25th March 2013, 04:38 AM
yes I have 3 "old style" frames coming tomorrow that will probably be put aside for existing owners spare parts.

New styles, both arm types will be shipping tomorrow/tuesday. I think i'll pay for overnight shipping on the next batch so I can get these frames out. The week delay from CNC shop really killed inventory... I'm 9 frames behind schedule as of now.

Steezus
25th March 2013, 04:40 AM
Cool. Hopefully my piece of shit USBasp flashing tool can be recognized by any of the 3 computers in my house more than once every 2 days so I can finish flashing my ESC's before I get the frame.

chatch
25th March 2013, 10:03 PM
The fit on the new Gaui arms is perfect.

http://i.imgur.com/Mk8I9ZP.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/duzYUTq.jpg

terabyte
25th March 2013, 10:04 PM
do you have flat g10 spacers now? pics?

chatch
26th March 2013, 02:58 AM
i used the nylon spacers i have. they work well and leave room to put the wires through.

chatch
26th March 2013, 04:29 AM
i just constructed a flat arm version and a new gaui version. I have to say, the gaui style is much more rigid. much more resistant to twisting or bending in any direction.

the tolerance is very tight on the tabs. tap the arms with a screwdriver to pop them in. fits great.

Debating whether to use flat arms or gaui for my 3D quad. I guess I can try both.

http://i.imgur.com/Li2830s.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YmGTTAj.jpg

terabyte
26th March 2013, 08:33 AM
i just constructed a flat arm version and a new gaui version. I have to say, the gaui style is much more rigid. much more resistant to twisting or bending in any direction.


Hence why i want flat g10 spacers so bad. that should make the flat arm version a lot more rigid.

Flying Monkey
26th March 2013, 01:08 PM
Hence why i want flat g10 spacers so bad. that should make the flat arm version a lot more rigid.

Agreed. The flat arm version is less stiff cause the hub plates are closer together. Give that one the same Z axis hub spacing that the gaui arm version has (plus the standoffs in the mid) and it should be as stiff.

chatch
26th March 2013, 04:49 PM
i just ordered 2 sheets of the 1/4" thick G10. the 12x24 sheets. i might be able to do the G10 spacers but it's way overkill. A smarter choice would be Delrin(or HDPE/UHMW etc. plastic shit) for the spacer.

Joesa3rd
26th March 2013, 05:13 PM
Just curious here, was there a reason you went with the new flat arms?

chatch
26th March 2013, 07:50 PM
Just curious here, was there a reason you went with the new flat arms?

got a lot of requests for flat arms. They're easier to build and install. Some were insisting that the slimmer profile has a dramatic effect on aerodynamics(and cruising speed). It makes it easier on me to offer flat arms, a lot less hardware to pack. Both options are still available.

Joesa3rd
26th March 2013, 08:44 PM
As far as aerodynamics are concerned tubular CF arms would be much better than the flat arm and with the right hight bracket to mount the CF arm to the frame you could keep the hight needed for the ESCs between the frame plates. You have a good design so don't stray to far or you might find your design going backwards; IMHO that is.

The CF arms could offer various motor angle options to find the sweet spot in FPV flight characteristics. That seems to be the missing part in most designs I see. If I only had a job that required less of my personal time I would design something new myself.:) keep up the good work.

terabyte
26th March 2013, 09:10 PM
chris cant you use the part you hollow out of the flat arm as the material to make the spacers?

chatch
27th March 2013, 02:15 AM
As far as aerodynamics are concerned tubular CF arms would be much better than the flat arm and with the right hight bracket to mount the CF arm to the frame you could keep the hight needed for the ESCs between the frame plates. You have a good design so don't stray to far or you might find your design going backwards; IMHO that is.

The CF arms could offer various motor angle options to find the sweet spot in FPV flight characteristics. That seems to be the missing part in most designs I see. If I only had a job that required less of my personal time I would design something new myself.:) keep up the good work.

arm angle is the key to asymmetrical designs. also gives more yaw authority. let's say you "squash" the design 15% on the length. you need to "waste" 15% thrust by turning the arms towards the long side. it would have a shorter flight time but decent flight characteristics and lots of yaw control.

Two reasons keeping me from CF tubes: blocking/reflecting RF, and no good way of securing each motor at a certain angle. The mounts I've seen just clamp down when you hold the rod in place. I could have a hole drilled where a screw is inserted to keep it at the right angle. would cost more in machining.

For longer arm designs I'm leaning towards "towel bar" setup, i could use some nice anodized aluminum square tubes.


chris cant you use the part you hollow out of the flat arm as the material to make the spacers?
yes probably. i'll add 2 3.2mm holes to each and see if they can throw the tabs in the box with the arms. good idea :)

terabyte
27th March 2013, 05:49 PM
yes probably. i'll add 2 3.2mm holes to each and see if they can throw the tabs in the box with the arms. good idea :)

Ill take a set as my commission for the idea ;)

chatch
28th March 2013, 08:10 PM
ok i built it and tightened it down. used 2 spacers in the middle. it's stiff and won't twist.

http://i.imgur.com/aAnnBHx.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QAn7nid.jpg

Flying Monkey
28th March 2013, 08:55 PM
I see brushless gimbal controllers... :D Can I haz???

lostheli
5th April 2013, 09:16 AM
What's the lead time on these frames?

terabyte
5th April 2013, 10:28 AM
on left in stock here; http://www.multirotorsuperstore.com/frames-p/ads400q.htm

lostheli
5th April 2013, 11:07 AM
I like the changes made to the gaui style arms, so that is what I'm after. I'm not sure if the one available is the new version, as the pictures show the old version.

terabyte
5th April 2013, 11:12 AM
ah. im not sure mate. hit up the owner of that site, he is good people.

chatch
5th April 2013, 01:42 PM
I have 25 frames in the mail, hopefully they all get here today and Saturday. Wait should be 2 days. I was switching machine shops so last week's orders got behind schedule

whakahere
5th April 2013, 03:02 PM
I'm looking for a strong gropro quad. What comes as part of the kit now chatch? Have you added spaces for the arms? does the little PDB come with it? Do you still get something to help mount a board camera?

Joesa3rd
5th April 2013, 05:56 PM
Chris,
I'm have a good time with the new 400Q this thing moves and I've yet to air all out yet. Current setup -> Tiger 2216-9 1100kv (APC 8"x4.7) on 4S and the CC3D. I think that's the same setup you were running at one time prior to the Naze 32 HW, Just curious what CC3D PID's you like for rate?

Joe

terabyte
5th April 2013, 06:50 PM
If you are running flashed ESCs these should get you close. This is what I run with the same motors.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8369/8456126745_2639f638b0_b.jpg


https://vimeo.com/63264824

whakahere
5th April 2013, 07:54 PM
I see you have jello in the picture. I thought with the tiger motors that wouldn't happen.

terabyte
5th April 2013, 07:58 PM
Im not running the stock arms is probably the reason.

whakahere
5th April 2013, 08:22 PM
why not?

chatch
5th April 2013, 08:37 PM
he's one of just over 100 people flying this frame who has had trouble with it. He swapped motors, ESC, even switched UHF and couldn't get it to "fly right". I think it's a combination of:
bad tx settings
bad ESC settings
bad tuning

from what it looks like, his aluminum square arms are a bit longer, making the frame more proportioned like a TBS disco(which he had before), and now it magically "flies right". Before when he gunned the throttle it would pull "aleron left" for some reason. I don't think his arms make the motors symmectrical any longer.

I don't know how it can be a problem with the frame, as I've built 4 of these now with gaui and flat arms. Today I was flying upside down with modified 10" graupners. Even while flying upside down I can't reproduce the problems he experienced.

My friend had a problem when he first put a KK 2.0 on this frame. When he went full throttle, it would yaw left. He had the yaw limit on 20% for some reason. After I set it back to 100% it flew normally. It was user error, configuring the controller.

terabyte
5th April 2013, 08:59 PM
he's one of just over 100 people flying this frame who has had trouble with it. He swapped motors, ESC, even switched UHF and couldn't get it to "fly right". I think it's a combination of:
bad tx settings
bad ESC settings
bad tuning

from what it looks like, his aluminum square arms are a bit longer, making the frame more proportioned like a TBS disco(which he had before), and now it magically "flies right". Before when he gunned the throttle it would pull "aleron left" for some reason. I don't think his arms make the motors symmectrical any longer.

I don't know how it can be a problem with the frame, as I've built 4 of these now with gaui and flat arms. Today I was flying upside down with modified 10" graupners. Even while flying upside down I can't reproduce the problems he experienced.

My friend had a problem when he first put a KK 2.0 on this frame. When he went full throttle, it would yaw left. He had the yaw limit on 20% for some reason. After I set it back to 100% it flew normally. It was user error, configuring the controller.

Chris I love the frame, I did what I did because I was at my whits end. I changed a whole lot more than the things you listed. I changed TX from a JR 9303 to a Flashed 9x and started with a brand new model memory. I tried 2 CC3D and 1 original CC. Ive tried Plush 30 ESCs and F30a ESCs flashed with WiiESC, swapped motors around, flashed ESCs again with SimonK...

I been around your frame since it was a prototype and had the problem since then. I never thought it was a problem with your design and that is why i basically changed everything else before I figured it might be the frame.

If it were any of the things you mentioned how the eff could changing arms that are maybe a cunt-hair longer going to automagically solve my issues.

BTW the TBS Discovery never had a cc3d in it, I got rid of that and the Naza at the same time I decided I wanted to go with your creation.

If anyone wants to know the freaking hell I went through trying to figure out wtf my problem with this quad was you can read it all here; http://forums.openpilot.org/topic/20291-roll-to-either-side-when-punching-the-throttle-issue-updated-with-fix/

chatch
5th April 2013, 09:55 PM
well i'm glad you got it flying correctly. It could have been something simple, like a tab not seated correctly in the plates. On the prototype pete had a yaw problem, but once he switched to "production" it disappeared.

chatch
5th April 2013, 10:35 PM
meanwhile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kfjUqo8Fl8

gaui arms on this quad

brock-samson
5th April 2013, 11:37 PM
^ lol upside down descent :) that was awsome

Been raining here so this weekends maiden is cancelled but I did fly my q400 inside my tiny apartment. I don't think my neighbors appreciated the noise but I was having a blast! I had a box 8 of NTM2826 motors and it seems like the bearings are bad or the shaft is crap because there is a bit of side to side play that's causing vibrations. Also 2 motors didn't even fit their prop adapter because the holes were way off, that leaves me with only one out of eight motors that I would feel safe flying outside. Anyone else have these issues with NTM?

chatch
5th April 2013, 11:49 PM
my NTM bearings went out after a few months. the motor holes should fit though, you may have to flip over the motor plate so all 4 holes line up.

brock-samson
6th April 2013, 12:09 AM
my NTM bearings went out after a few months. the motor holes should fit though, you may have to flip over the motor plate so all 4 holes line up.
It was the holes to the prop adapter that were out of alignment, the frame holes were all good. I tried the same adapter with 2 other motors and it was fine so I just threw the bad motors into the spare parts bin. The original plan was to go with some better motors, I just thought that I might get a few decent flights out of the NTMs that were collecting dust. The Naze does a great job even with the vibrations, I also think the vibration isolation plays a big part in that too.

chatch
6th April 2013, 12:22 AM
oh i see. that really sucks

airbagit13
6th April 2013, 02:37 AM
Ha! Sick video man. Loved every second of it.

chatch
6th April 2013, 04:13 AM
thanks, it was fun. I also flew my 3D quad FPV, still needs to be tuned(i just copied over settings from the other quad) because of the modified props. I went with the graupner clones and trimmed them to 8 inches. No gopro on it yet, i'll fly a few flights before I trust it with the gopro lol

chatch
6th April 2013, 09:30 AM
update on frames: getting 5 in the mail today, then the first batch from the new shop will be here monday or tuesday(15 frames). 9 more arrive on Wednesday

chatch
9th April 2013, 06:16 PM
just flew with a 4200mah battery. 12 minute flight time.

MidwestRob
9th April 2013, 07:12 PM
Nice! With the 1100kv motors?

chatch
9th April 2013, 07:17 PM
yep with the 1100kv motors.

Gottahunt
9th April 2013, 07:36 PM
just flew with a 4200mah battery. 12 minute flight time.

Which bat? And get your finger out of your nose.

terabyte
9th April 2013, 09:06 PM
what about the 3300 ?

chatch
9th April 2013, 09:09 PM
they weigh 326g and are amazing as well :D

terabyte
9th April 2013, 09:58 PM
how many minutes flight time sir?

chatch
9th April 2013, 11:05 PM
9 minutes, the same as the TBS lipo. but i only put 3600mah back into that 4200 so i'm cycling it a few times to see if i can get it up to 3800-3900. if it holds voltage till then it will be a 14 minute flight with 4200mah.

hadriez
10th April 2013, 12:53 AM
with just hovering?
I drain my 4s 3300 within 3 minutes in super aggressive flying using the 1100kv lol. if I were to use the sunnysky 980kv, at least I can get around 7 minutes in the same flight characteristic. but I'm not using the tbs lipo.

chatch
10th April 2013, 01:05 AM
yeah just hovering. my 3300 lasts 6-7 minutes in aggressive flight. 4 minutes in a full out climb at 100% until i barely have enough left to float back down upside down

chatch
10th April 2013, 05:54 PM
ok everything has shipped up to this point. 15 frames in stock, 5 are going to graves RC and 10 are ready to instant ship

i'm 3 weeks into a 5 week lead for the 20mm aluminum spacers and i have like 75 left and 100 brass. so if you don't mind brass put it in the note. I use brass instead of aluminum. otherwise i'll have to put the gaui style out of stock for ~1 week. The flat version doesn't use those spacers so those can still ship.

chatch
10th April 2013, 11:29 PM
supplier sent out 200 more spacers so i'm good for all the frames in this batch. all frames ship in 24 hours or less as of now

Steezus
12th April 2013, 03:08 PM
Can I or should I use loctite on the nylon spacers?

chatch
12th April 2013, 03:56 PM
you can but i don't use any loctite on the nylon

Joesa3rd
12th April 2013, 04:05 PM
Chris,
I got the new spacers and screws you sent. Oh and thanks for the extra legs that was a pleasant surprise. Never know when you're going to need those.

Got any new designs in the works?

Joe

chatch
12th April 2013, 07:05 PM
I'm working on a giant copter and a mini copter. The giant one is for a very long flight with brushless gimbal. It will handle DSLR cameras and gopro of course.

whakahere
12th April 2013, 07:33 PM
I'm looking for a strong gropro quad. What comes as part of the kit now chatch? Have you added spaces for the arms? does the little PDB come with it? Do you still get something to help mount a board camera?

I asked this a while ago but never got a reply. I guess it got lost in other topics. Do you have any photos of the basic kit just laid out as it would ship?

Joesa3rd
12th April 2013, 07:35 PM
Nice! Don't forget those Tri's....

chatch
12th April 2013, 10:59 PM
I honestly don't like tris and probably won't be building/flyinhg one but IBCrazy likes them. I will be helping him design one when things settle down for the both of us. It will be sizeable, 10x4.5 or 12x6 props.

chatch
12th April 2013, 11:20 PM
I asked this a while ago but never got a reply. I guess it got lost in other topics. Do you have any photos of the basic kit just laid out as it would ship?

I stopped making the CCD cases a month ago. I can definitely look into redoing the design, most likely with 3D printed part. I have 1/4" spacers for the flat arms giving about 1/2" of space for ESCs.

chatch
14th April 2013, 03:19 AM
back to 24 hour shipping.
http://i.imgur.com/ygYYp7n.jpg

ShawnG
14th April 2013, 09:13 PM
My itchy trigger finger is tempting me to pick one of these up, I like what I've seen so far Chatch, hmmm how can i sneak this under the radar:rolleyes:

airbagit13
14th April 2013, 09:37 PM
My itchy trigger finger is tempting me to pick one of these up, I like what I've seen so far Chatch, hmmm how can i sneak this under the radar:rolleyes:

Chatch gives you a name, no questions, you know what to do. After the target is put down and disposed of you get your frame. Under the radar enough?

Flying Monkey
14th April 2013, 10:21 PM
Chatch gives you a name, no questions, you know what to do. After the target is put down and disposed of you get your frame. Under the radar enough?

LOL!

ShawnG
14th April 2013, 10:48 PM
Chatch gives you a name, no questions, you know what to do. After the target is put down and disposed of you get your frame. Under the radar enough?

Haha lol mission excepted, this message will self distruct in 5 sec.

chatch
14th April 2013, 11:03 PM
My itchy trigger finger is tempting me to pick one of these up, I like what I've seen so far Chatch, hmmm how can i sneak this under the radar:rolleyes:

like half my orders are to people's work addresses LOL

Steezus
14th April 2013, 11:19 PM
400Q is quite burly. I was just attempting to tune my pid's and something wasn't right, so I was going to unplug the battery and plug it into my computer. I disarmed the CC3D then I guess you aren't supposed to turn off the RC transmitter because I did that and the ****er just went crazy flying across my garage floor into a bucket full of dried cement ass first. It destroyed 3 precious Graupners but the 400Q went unscathed.

So how crucial is the center of balance? I don't have anything to professionally find the current balance, but it sure as hell doesn't seem like it is in the center with a 4S 2650 lipo jammed as far in as it goes, which should be light for this frame. Is it okay for it to be a bit aft of center?

Time to order a bunch of cheap props to save my remaining Graupners from a world of hell.

chatch
14th April 2013, 11:36 PM
It's ok for it to be a little off, but with a 400 gram 4200mAh battery in the back of mine it does get a little wonky. It's almost as if this frame is begging for a brushless gimbal up front to correct the balance :p

I have a 850mAh 3s, dragon link rx, pixim seawolf and hero3 up front so it seems to do a very good job keeping balance with the 3300mAh 4S I use regularly.

pm me what props you need, I have 50 pairs "carbon nylon" Gemfan 8x4.5 and some carbon fiber ones if you need those too.

Steezus
15th April 2013, 02:50 AM
Jesus Christ.. I was so excited to just ****ing hover the quad that I actually put the wrong direction prop on one of my motors. How retarded of me! Happened to break 3 of the same CCW props in one go so now I have 4 CW and 1 CCW and won't be able to mess around at all on my day off tomorrow. I guess I had to make at least one really stupid mistake since I had somehow avoided shorting out anything while putting it together.

hadriez
16th April 2013, 03:13 AM
does qav400 aluminium arm fits 400Q? :cool:

terabyte
16th April 2013, 08:47 AM
400Q is quite burly. I was just attempting to tune my pid's and something wasn't right, so I was going to unplug the battery and plug it into my computer. I disarmed the CC3D then I guess you aren't supposed to turn off the RC transmitter because I did that and the ****er just went crazy flying across my garage floor into a bucket full of dried cement ass first. It destroyed 3 precious Graupners but the 400Q went unscathed.

So how crucial is the center of balance? I don't have anything to professionally find the current balance, but it sure as hell doesn't seem like it is in the center with a 4S 2650 lipo jammed as far in as it goes, which should be light for this frame. Is it okay for it to be a bit aft of center?

Time to order a bunch of cheap props to save my remaining Graupners from a world of hell.

Set the failsafe on your radio to 0 throttle bud. You got away lucky, here is what had to happen to me for me to learn that lesson; http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8065/8260403633_f946edfe98_b.jpg

whakahere
16th April 2013, 11:33 AM
back to 24 hour shipping.
http://i.imgur.com/ygYYp7n.jpg

That looks like a nice machine. Do the ones you sell come with the arms and extensions in all in black (edges of the arms look the same as yours)?

Steezus
16th April 2013, 11:45 AM
Set the failsafe on your radio to 0 throttle bud. You got away lucky, here is what had to happen to me for me to learn that lesson; http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8065/8260403633_f946edfe98_b.jpg

I have it set to hover, but the board was disarmed when I turned the radio off and it went to max throttle, which seems really odd to me. Since that #3 motor had a CCW prop on it, it stayed dragging its ass along the floor. So I guess I am maybe lucky I learned to never turn the transmitter off with a battery plugged in while it had the right props on or it would have gone 9 ft into the ceiling then dropped straight to concrete. I'll definitely test this soon and put it to 0 throttle failsafe and turn the radio off again and see what it does. I really wish when it was disarmed it wouldn't do anything regardless of the radio being on or off. I'm fairly certain I will make the same mistake again eventually. Going to put some tape on the RC power button as a reminder.

Exyator
16th April 2013, 12:58 PM
back to 24 hour shipping.
http://i.imgur.com/ygYYp7n.jpg
What props are those?

chatch
16th April 2013, 01:09 PM
That looks like a nice machine. Do the ones you sell come with the arms and extensions in all in black (edges of the arms look the same as yours)?

yes it comes all black. but those nylon spacers are white, i dyed mine black. i got a new machine shop and they do an even better job than before


What props are those?

graupner style Gemfan props cut from 10" to 8". I made a big gemfan order and threw 30 pairs in with the others. The props are about 50 cents each.


does qav400 aluminium arm fits 400Q? :cool:

i could do that but it would probably piss some people off. http://quadcopter.us/store/index.php?id_product=25&controller=product
QAV400 holes = QAV500 holes

Steezus
16th April 2013, 01:46 PM
Here's some yellow dyed spacers. Took a risk, wasn't sure if it would look like I urinated on the quad or not. I think it looks pretty slick. This was taken after my violent ass ender maiden and now I'm grounded waiting for props.

http://i.imgur.com/533KtFth.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/b7Idd07h.jpg

Gottahunt
16th April 2013, 02:40 PM
Here's some yellow dyed spacers. Took a risk, wasn't sure if it would look like I urinated on the quad or not. I think it looks pretty slick. This was taken after my violent ass ender maiden and now I'm grounded waiting for props.

http://i.imgur.com/533KtFth.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/b7Idd07h.jpg

Looks great! Clean build.

Derrick
16th April 2013, 03:07 PM
I saw your post over in the Video thread 7 post re: having your quad setup in 3D mode.

Can you go over this a little more in detail?

chatch
16th April 2013, 03:14 PM
center stick = minimum throttle. full up = full throttle forward. full down = full throttle backward. i ordered some very flat graupner style modified props that will allow it to fly upside down. but for now there's not enough lift on regular props when spinning backwards. You can flatten your own props with a blowtorch but i haven't been able to do it well enough to generate equal lift from each prop.

for this flight mode i'd suggest 30A esc. the f-30a are perfect. with comp_pwm enabled, a nice deadband set etc. it works very well.

with how i have the quad set up now, instead of just being able to go to 0 throttle and wait for it to fall in a dive, i can go all the way to -100% and actually force it towards the ground very quickly.

Derrick
16th April 2013, 03:24 PM
center stick = minimum throttle. full up = full throttle forward. full down = full throttle backward. i ordered some very flat graupner style modified props that will allow it to fly upside down. but for now there's not enough lift on regular props when spinning backwards. You can flatten your own props with a blowtorch but i haven't been able to do it well enough to generate equal lift from each prop.

for this flight mode i'd suggest 30A esc. the f-30a are perfect. with comp_pwm enabled, a nice deadband set etc. it works very well.

with how i have the quad set up now, instead of just being able to go to 0 throttle and wait for it to fall in a dive, i can go all the way to -100% and actually force it towards the ground very quickly.

How does the flight controller respond to the reverse thrust? Any problems with props "unscrewing"?

chatch
16th April 2013, 03:32 PM
so far i haven't had any problems with props unscrewing. i did order CCW prop adapters for this next motor batch, but in 3D mode that doesn't really make a difference. either way you will always have at least 2 motors rotating against the thread. in the case of CCW adapters, none of the props would be rotating against the thread on forward, and all of them would be against the thread in reverse rotation.

it reacts to reverse thrust exactly how it reacts to normal thrust. at least on my frame, the CG is perfect on the Z axis for both arm styles. so when you flip over it flies just the same.

terabyte
16th April 2013, 05:29 PM
Chris can you upload your higher timing firmware for the F30a but without 3D? Calibrating ESCs for 3D sounds like a pain in the D.

hadriez
17th April 2013, 12:16 AM
graupner style Gemfan props cut from 10" to 8". I made a big gemfan order and threw 30 pairs in with the others. The props are about 50 cents each.


holy crap. i got to do this as well since I have these graupner style props laying around. and how is it compared to gemfan cf props? i currently use APC 8x4.7 and it performs pretty well.



i could do that but it would probably piss some people off. http://quadcopter.us/store/index.php?id_product=25&controller=product
QAV400 holes = QAV500 holes

not asking you to do it. was just wondering whether the hole alignment was already the same as q4 arms. the reason i'm asking is because i noticed your g10 arms version are at 5mm. iconic-x is also the same and i have one of this frame. tried to fit the escs between this confined space and it just doesn't fit. or did you manage to make it fit?

chatch
17th April 2013, 01:14 AM
No it doesn't. I think my arms use 12x18mm and QAV is 18x22. Can't remember. My arms are 6.35mm and i have 6.35mm spacers so it gives 12.7mm space for ESC. my f30a escape are10mm tall so it fits fine.

As long as you balance the props it works great. It has a lot less, like 15% less lift

hadriez
17th April 2013, 02:05 AM
oh i had the impression that the g10 arms are sandwiched between the plates.

chatch
17th April 2013, 07:07 AM
they are between the plates.

ignore the chamfer on the screws, they were what i had laying around. the normal screws are pan-head
http://i.imgur.com/Cy6muoG.jpg

chatch
17th April 2013, 07:20 AM
http://i.imgur.com/eAAK9CB.jpg

hadriez
17th April 2013, 07:38 AM
ic.. yeap this would definitely fit! going to order later tonight lol

chatch
17th April 2013, 02:48 PM
if you want to convert your other frame to flat arms too i can put in 4 extra flat arms

hadriez
17th April 2013, 02:58 PM
that's alright dude! :) i think i have too many quads and too little time to fly lol

chatch
17th April 2013, 11:39 PM
ok i got like 50 flat arms in the mail today! all frames are going out in the morning. I will see if I can fix the site tonight and update everything. I will post pictures of each kit and hopefully a quick "build manual".

The new machine shop is doing an incredible job, I checked everything on the calipers and they are accurate to +-0.02mm, which is extremely good.

terabyte
18th April 2013, 12:06 AM
Forgot SD card today for the gopro but thought Id share anyways.


https://vimeo.com/64283192

chatch
18th April 2013, 07:21 AM
i was up all night but i got all the frames boxed and shipped. except hadriez. i had like 4 of the nylon spacers left that make room for the ESC. more will be here tomorrow.

Flying Monkey
18th April 2013, 11:45 AM
Forgot SD card today for the gopro but thought Id share anyways.


https://vimeo.com/64283192

Can I haz the full version of that song???

terabyte
18th April 2013, 11:48 AM
Can I haz the full version of that song???

PMing you

chatch
18th April 2013, 05:31 PM
what video frequency? looks like a fun flight

terabyte
18th April 2013, 05:46 PM
2370. Need to figure out why it was so crap yesterday, its normally awesome. I was working on my Juz dives and it was a damn fun day! Getting ready to turn up my rates on my CC3D and maybe try some flips.

chatch
18th April 2013, 07:56 PM
"realfpv" banner?
http://i.imgur.com/K6wBQX2.gif

chatch
18th April 2013, 10:41 PM
slowly piecing together "actual photos"

here is an example kit. standard gaui style arm frame.
2x dirty plates
1x clean
1x top
8x arm plates
4x motor plates
8x landing gear sticks

hardware:
10x 35mm nylon spacer
8x M3 nylon screws
8x M3 nylon nuts
75+(a handful weighed and usually is about 80-100) 8mm M3 stainless screws
4x 10mm nylon standoff
4x 5mm nylon standoff
25x aluminum 20mm M3 spacer
4x shock mounts
8x 4-40 locknuts

the 10mm standoffs are to attach your CC3D/kk board/whatever to the clean plate. 5mm standoff is for attaching distro board inside the bottom frame. Nylon nuts and screws are for securing them to the standoffs.

Stainless screws are for the spacers(note the difference between standoff and spacer above), both the 25mm aluminum and 35mm nylon.

http://i.imgur.com/3jB28b2.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GeTCs2c.jpg

5h1f7y
19th April 2013, 12:03 AM
back to 24 hour shipping.
http://i.imgur.com/ygYYp7n.jpg

What's AUW Chatch? Info is probably somewhere I'm just being lazy.
I've found my qav500 hard to set up as it is very nose heavy. Even with a 4000 4s I have to hang the battery off the rear of the frame, Either that or run two go pro's which I don't want to have to do all the time.
With the 400q what Is the smallest battery weight you can use while still balancing out the CG with a GPblack cased and a flight cam up front? I too am getting a bit itchy in the finger region!

chatch
19th April 2013, 12:39 AM
AUW is 1458g including gopro and everything

I'm not making sense of your comments on balance. Where does the 2nd gopro go?

with a cased gopro and a flight cam up front, a 3300mAh 4S would be perfect. It really depends on the battery vendor. My 3300mAh 4S batteries weigh only 326g. A Gens Ace 3300mAh 4S weighs 408g. My 4200mAh 4S weighs less than a zippy compact 3700mAh 4S(399g, still less than the gens ace 3300). So results may vary, I would limit the max battery to 400g in the back with how my setup is pictured.

5h1f7y
19th April 2013, 01:02 AM
Down cam on the rear of the 500. With the GoPro cased on the front I find it hard to get the CG correct without the down cam on the rear. I was flying no cases but then the flying I like doing its probably not viable. I did drop one of my quads in the ocean last weekend so I was pretty happy I had cased the GP for those flights.
I've also had my fair share of jello problems lately, the jello on your cut prop flight was hardly noticeable to the shake I've been getting.
I'm going to add the 400q to my wish list, it's a great price so maybe sooner than later. I would send it to work but she works here too Iol.

chatch
19th April 2013, 01:32 AM
oh i see. that makes sense. imo a QAV500 should be holding a 5100mAh 4S battery.

here are the flat arms. no DSLR here :(
http://i.imgur.com/AW8ZrgV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/eDicHL2.jpg

chatch
19th April 2013, 02:22 AM
http://i.imgur.com/m3a3ewx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2yDv7yN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oZtQduW.jpg

whakahere
21st April 2013, 03:57 PM
looks really nice chatch. Which style arms do you prefer for fast tree bashing also when are you getting more 2216-9 motors?

chatch
21st April 2013, 04:11 PM
I like the original arms for close proximity stuff. I'll e getting more motors in 10 days. I'll see if I can get tiger to speed up production

whakahere
21st April 2013, 05:23 PM
I hope they are not all gone by the time I have money to get them. :) I really would like some powerful motors on my quad. I have ntm 1200kv now. How do you find the difference in power?

chatch
21st April 2013, 06:33 PM
My ntm1200kv max out around 80% throttle. They can only deliver 250w power. The 1100kv 2216 deliver 330w so you see much higher RPM than the NTM motors.

chatch
27th April 2013, 08:54 PM
i crashed the shit out of my flat arm frame today. nothing broke. there was a huge divot in the ground LOL. my dragon link TX has gone bad. very low power output. I had a failsafe at 50 feet away that sent my quad to the ground. Ripped some wires and the rubber shock mounts, but the frame, battery and gopro are ok. just got some soldering to do, and clean the dirt out of one motor.

i will be sending all of my dragon link gear back to mike for upgrade and to replace the RF module in the TX.

Steezus
27th April 2013, 08:57 PM
You know I never could get my FC to detect channel 4 on my DL rx and I seem to get a lot of failsafes with it. I am glad you told me about the referral since it looks like I might have to replace the current rx I have. I was hoping that the control would be the least of my worries, but I wasn't that lucky.

chatch
27th April 2013, 09:09 PM
if i still have problems after sending my shit back to mike i'll get a thomas system and go on a bashing parade against dragon link lol.

a QAV400 would be absolutely toast in this crash. This frame? Nothing broken.

http://i.imgur.com/J1rhEZr.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lAefTcz.jpg

MidwestRob
27th April 2013, 09:11 PM
Wow, it left a divot in the ground?! Did you manage to get any video of the crash?

chatch
27th April 2013, 09:23 PM
sure i'll uplaod it. i'm still using these ridiculous hand cut props so there is plenty of jello in the video :p

i will have to rewire everything and solder a new wire to the ESC. bascially have to take it apart and redo everything. but that's ok because i was planning on using CAT6 shielded cable anyways. it just sucks taht my dragon link is crap now :(

i will upload it as soon as it's done copying over

MidwestRob
27th April 2013, 09:31 PM
Crashes caused by hardware failures are hard to swallow. Didn't you have issues with your DL receiver a few weeks ago?

BTW, looks like you lost one of your nuts on the left-front arm.

chatch
27th April 2013, 09:34 PM
also i was using a 4200mah battery. I'm very happy with the results. The mark you see in the propeller on the previous page is from the "clean" section hitting the prop during impact, and that's the only thing i could see damaged on the frame.

and yes, there was a big divot from the rear right arm digging into the ground. After bringing the quad back to the sidewalk I realized the connectors had pulled out of the distro board. I was able to find the crash site again because of the hole in the ground, and i did end up finding the pulled off connectors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grkKMscuT_M


Crashes caused by hardware failures are hard to swallow. Didn't you have issues with your DL receiver a few weeks ago?

BTW, looks like you lost one of your nuts on the left-front arm.

yeah I have been having problems with dragon link recently. Now that I had the same problem twice on a different quad with a different receiver at a different flying location, I can be sure that my transmitter is faulty. Mike will take it back no problem and upgrade everything at once. in the meantime I can rebuild my quads. I don't like these graupner props as much as the carbon fiber gemfan props so I'll stick with the gemfans from now on.

MidwestRob
27th April 2013, 09:46 PM
Yeah, that was a nasty crash. Landed hard on the arms too.

Joesa3rd
28th April 2013, 02:55 AM
Ouch!...I guess it could have been worse. I see you didn't have a failsafe setup for mid throttle with horizon enabled.

chatch
28th April 2013, 04:38 AM
Ouch!...I guess it could have been worse. I see you didn't have a failsafe setup for mid throttle with horizon enabled.

yeah i'll enable that. The difference here is I have COMP_PWM enabled. At 0 throttle setting the motors go from full throttle to 0 in less than half a second. On the other quad, when power is lost, the props still spin freely and it has a much more "floaty" effect.

Total rebuild cost: 4 bobbins. Nothing broke.
http://i.imgur.com/LFEcSUL.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LFEcSUL.jpg

whakahere
28th April 2013, 07:43 AM
why do you have your uhf antenna so close to noisy parts? To me you have surrounded your quad in noise. You have the VTX spitting out noise, and the cameras (gopro). With the UHF antenna out the back and the videoTX to the front you have your noisy things up front, shorter video cables and a larger distance from the noise to your rc receiver. This should increase your range.

Steezus
28th April 2013, 08:11 PM
I noticed today that when I set my DL tx into high power I no longer get fail safes. I am hoping I just smashed up my antenna good enough to create a bad connection, but at least for now high power doesn't interfere with my video link at the distances I fly.

I am 11 packs into flying FPV and 2 of those packs where completely garbage flights due to fail safes and bad FC settings, but now I am to the point where I am no longer nervous or apprehensive. I have crashed it so hard multiple times now and I have only broke 2 landing gears. I have bounced it off of concrete after cutting the throttle when power lines appear out of nowhere then fly right out of it. Right now I am using cheap carbon/nylon Gemfans that are all chipped up and the jello is basically non-existent. I pretty much feel like I wasted money on a prop balancer!

Anyways, this shit is so much fun and I find it makes me feel relaxed and like a god when I am all done. I am able to do flips and rolls and I see progress each time I fly. I can also see why 2216's would be ideal and I would like to move to those once I start needing to replace motors from possible crashes or rough treatment.

So answer me this. Why in the hell does the GoPro randomly start or stop? I had actual cool shit in my flights today, but almost all of it is missing because either the GoPro started 3 minutes into the flight or cut out in the middle of the flight. I have it fully charged, plenty of memory space, formatted before using, and updated the firmware. It is ****ing ridiculous that something so expensive has these kind of problems.

chatch
29th April 2013, 12:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXbSWQhUZE4

flew today, set failsafe to 30% throttle and "level" mode. had 2 failsafes :(. waiting for mike to send me infos on returning the dragon link


why do you have your uhf antenna so close to noisy parts? To me you have surrounded your quad in noise. You have the VTX spitting out noise, and the cameras (gopro). With the UHF antenna out the back and the videoTX to the front you have your noisy things up front, shorter video cables and a larger distance from the noise to your rc receiver. This should increase your range.

RF explorer shows no noise from my pixim camera between 429 and 440mhz. I should probably wrap the gopro in copper. My vtx puts out noise between 1260mhz and 1298mhz but not anywhere around 430-440mhz.

IBCrazy
29th April 2013, 12:05 AM
^Check your VTX ground wire. Some low power VTX emit RFI in the ground wire. I can send you some ferrite rings to help clean that up.

-Alex

chatch
29th April 2013, 12:10 AM
I also got pretty bad range today for what your pepperbox normally would give me. 300 meters away and i'd have to turn back. I think it's noise floor, way out in sorrento I can fly 1.5 miles away while at 20 feet off the ground.

thanks for the ferrite suggestion, I'll add one and report back.

brock-samson
6th May 2013, 07:46 PM
just did the maiden of my q400 fpv and I am loving every little bit of it :) I was doing back flips and front flips at about 800ft with stock settings and unbalanced props! I came close to clouding but didn't want to push my luck with the unbalanced props. Chatch this airframe is awsome!

Steezus
6th May 2013, 07:49 PM
I'm not even sure if I will bother balancing my props anymore. I don't get jello until they are super chipped up and destroyed to the point where I probably shouldn't even be using the props and risking total destruction mid flight.

brock-samson
6th May 2013, 08:16 PM
I'm not even sure if I will bother balancing my props anymore. I don't get jello until they are super chipped up and destroyed to the point where I probably shouldn't even be using the props and risking total destruction mid flight.

I don't have any jello at all with unbalanced props but its still good practice to balance them to keep unnecessary stress off of the bearings. Overall I am extremely impressed with this airframe, I am not the kind of person to do flips on a maiden flight but this thing was begging me to :)

Steezus
6th May 2013, 08:19 PM
I pretty much only got vibes today with chipped up props because of the wind and almost all of the props are chipped now, but yeah, I didn't think about the bearings.

chatch
6th May 2013, 08:29 PM
Youll get 10-15% extra thrust after balancing if they are not balanced(carbon nylon)

Steezus
6th May 2013, 08:37 PM
Youll get 10-15% extra thrust after balancing if they are not balanced(carbon nylon)

Sold!

ShawnG
6th May 2013, 08:43 PM
Great to hear, saving fund now to build one, cant wait, more I hear about it and see the vids the more i want.

JohnVH
6th May 2013, 09:21 PM
quantity discount if we buy two?

chatch
6th May 2013, 09:29 PM
I can give free shipping on 2+ frames

blueprint
6th May 2013, 11:49 PM
Finished your quad Chatch. Loving it!

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n151/blueprintMR2/photo-3_zpsbb305f5d.jpg

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n151/blueprintMR2/photo1-4_zpsd71e9b6c.jpg

JohnVH
7th May 2013, 12:48 AM
very nice. hmmm

hadriez
7th May 2013, 01:39 AM
nice one blueprint. i have to ask, how did you mount your dragonlink antenna? zippies? can't see clear enough from the photo.

blueprint
7th May 2013, 02:07 AM
nice one blueprint. i have to ask, how did you mount your dragonlink antenna? zippies? can't see clear enough from the photo.

I used a carbon rod and inserted the antenna inside it. I then zip tied it to the rear stand off.

hadriez
7th May 2013, 02:40 AM
I used a carbon rod and inserted the antenna inside it. I then zip tied it to the rear stand off.
ahh ok.. just getting some ideas since I just got my dragonlink. and I didn't know you could place DL RX so close with 1.2 vtx and just bring the UHF antenna away using the coax extension cable. thought both DL RX itself and vtx needs to be separated. but I'd think i'll try your method - seems a lot less hassle. thanks

@catch,
got the flat arms version. thanks

ShawnG
7th May 2013, 09:12 AM
Great pics (blueprint) another reason i cant wait to build one looks very clean.

blueprint
7th May 2013, 10:33 AM
ahh ok.. just getting some ideas since I just got my dragonlink. and I didn't know you could place DL RX so close with 1.2 vtx and just bring the UHF antenna away using the coax extension cable. thought both DL RX itself and vtx needs to be separated. but I'd think i'll try your method - seems a lot less hassle. thanks

@catch,
got the flat arms version. thanks

For what it's worth i have my airplanes configured the same way with the receiver and vtx up front and a long coax cable going through the fuselage and exiting towards the vertical stabilizer of the plane. I've gotten over 8 miles with solid rssi with that configuration.

My range tests also showed no changed with the receiver up front next to the vtx and with the receiver in the rear.

Thanks for the comments guys. Still doing some testing and tuning with the CC3D.

terabyte
7th May 2013, 10:35 AM
I used a carbon rod and inserted the antenna inside it. I then zip tied it to the rear stand off.

Carbon rod is going to eat up your signal. Use plastic instead bud.

RandallJ
7th May 2013, 10:51 AM
shall that be V1 or V2?
http://i.imgur.com/DEXbs.jpg

blueprint
7th May 2013, 10:59 AM
I just got it from chatch last week so im guessing V2?

From what i can see your bottom plate in the clean section is different, yours protrudes in the rear and is wide in the front. I also noticed hex screws rather than philips. Metal standoffs in the clean section? Very nice.... mine came with white nylon standoffs that i thought made it look ugly. I dyed them black to match the rest of the frame.

Your vibration bobbins are orange, are they the QAV series or the one that came with this frame?

terabyte
7th May 2013, 12:28 PM
For the CC3D folks, here are my latest settings;
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7285/8718164668_58abb76229_b.jpg


https://vimeo.com/65469201

Steezus
7th May 2013, 12:48 PM
I keep inching my integral higher and higher nothing like the usual qav settings so it is good to see mine are in the same ballpark as what you have. I'm also curious how similar the pids will be when I install the Naze.

terabyte
7th May 2013, 02:11 PM
I need to get off my ass and try the Naze already!!!

chatch
7th May 2013, 06:49 PM
i'll be out of town till sunday because of a wedding i'm going to. i shipped the last of the frames today. any orders past this will have to wait until sunday

MidwestRob
13th May 2013, 01:03 AM
Hey chatch, what length motor mount screws are you using with the flat G10 arms? The screws that came with my frame only grab a couple threads of the motors.

*BTW, your message box is full.

chatch
13th May 2013, 01:54 AM
they're 20mm M3 screws. 25mm M3 screws would be the next size up but they fit my frame ok, even with shrink wrap.

MidwestRob
13th May 2013, 01:56 AM
No, I mean the screws to attach the motors to the arms.

chatch
13th May 2013, 02:00 AM
10mm M3 screws will do it

Steezus
13th May 2013, 02:20 AM
Chatch, stop exceeding your mailbox limits. Stop pretending like you have friends or people want to talk to you. We all know you send messages to yourself with puppet accounts. There is one single important message that needs to be sent right now and it will not let me. I need the stuff. This time I can pay with cash instead of those weird favors that you asked me to do to you like last time.

Flying Monkey
13th May 2013, 02:26 AM
This time I can pay with cash instead of those weird favors that you asked me to do to you like last time.

Whats a matter? Your knees hurt?

Bah ha ha!!!

Steezus
13th May 2013, 02:28 AM
It's not gay if I don't like it.

5h1f7y
13th May 2013, 02:29 AM
upside down Australians everywhere!

chatch
13th May 2013, 02:41 AM
lol i clean my box every day, my oldest pms go back to last Wednesday.

i'm sending you like 50 landing gears tomorrow

chatch
13th May 2013, 02:44 AM
Steezus is the 2nd person to actually break a frame. congrats on the broken dirty plate!

Steezus
13th May 2013, 02:52 AM
Steezus is the 2nd person to actually break a frame. congrats on the broken dirty plate!

I'm pretty sure I can and will replicate that feat. And I thought I was going to fly like a pussy for the first year as I get used to all of this. It is just too much fun seeing how low you can dive bomb towards the ground and still pull out or see how low you can flip or roll to the ground. I should probably slow down and practice flying around tight obstacles for a little while. I'm a little mad that I let it crash and burn that hard.

blueprint
14th May 2013, 06:20 PM
400Q Tuning. She's getting close.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JLzParhOgo&feature=youtu.be

ShawnG
14th May 2013, 07:48 PM
Super smooth flight, thanks for sharing, cant wait to get mine!

blueprint
14th May 2013, 08:57 PM
You'll love it. The durability of this frame is incredible.

Steezus
14th May 2013, 10:34 PM
Wow, did you purposely fly through the sprinklers or just couldn't see them through the goggles? I would have thought it would cause a short on the distro board.

blueprint
14th May 2013, 10:55 PM
Wow, did you purposely fly through the sprinklers or just couldn't see them through the goggles? I would have thought it would cause a short on the distro board.

I didnt see it until it was too late. Surprisingly there were no issues. 420 line camera. :(

Steezus
14th May 2013, 10:57 PM
I'm surprised at how little I could see with my 600TVL. I assume that has 600 lines? I don't see power lines until I am right there and even people can be kind of hard to make out. It is like I have to learn a new way of seeing.

blueprint
15th May 2013, 01:27 AM
I'm surprised at how little I could see with my 600TVL. I assume that has 600 lines? I don't see power lines until I am right there and even people can be kind of hard to make out. It is like I have to learn a new way of seeing.

With a 600TVL you can't see branches/power lines? That's odd because they're pretty clear on my 420TVL and Fatshark Dominator goggles. Are you on a monitor? When i was using a monitor is was very difficult to fly between trees as it was difficult to see with the sun glare etc.

blueprint
15th May 2013, 01:29 AM
For those on the CC3D here are my PID settings. I have over 30 flights trying to get the 400Q locked in. It was quite a handful but i have her the way i like her now. The yaw can still use a bit of fine tuning but it's close.

25862

5h1f7y
15th May 2013, 03:31 AM
What do you think is going to fix the yaw? I run very similar settings on my 500 frame but have a zero I on my yaw. Not saying I like it exactly like that but it does have something to it. Seems to me if I took it up to .0010 it would be pretty damn good.
I was considering using a formula that Chatch mentioned find P, I = P / 3.5, D = I * 1.5. Please correct me if that is wrong Chatch. It seems all these people flying around with CC3D's don't even use the derivative, the settings I'm using I took straight from Juz....no D? I almost thought...bullshit that guy has to use a D but then I watch Chatch fly an think yeah well maybe not. I'm going to try the formula and see where my quad end up lol

Steezus
15th May 2013, 03:31 AM
With a 600TVL you can't see branches/power lines? That's odd because they're pretty clear on my 420TVL and Fatshark Dominator goggles. Are you on a monitor? When i was using a monitor is was very difficult to fly between trees as it was difficult to see with the sun glare etc.

I have Dominators. I used some popular settings that I had found on here. I will probably experiment some, but it seems like the video I usually see from other people looks pretty similar to mine, including the power lines being hard to pick out till you are right there. Maybe I need to watch for FPV cam videos.

5h1f7y
15th May 2013, 03:44 AM
http://youtu.be/rzw8A8ptdlQ

See 2.48 :) haha

Care of Chatch, I can't fly like that even with balanced props!

chatch
15th May 2013, 04:50 AM
yeah power lines are a bitch, i only see them 30-40 feet away. and that fence was real hard to see

whakahere
15th May 2013, 07:08 AM
I have just about collected the cash for the quad and motors. Do you still have the 1100kv -16 and frame in stock?

carlos
15th May 2013, 08:30 AM
+1 ;)

http://youtu.be/rzw8A8ptdlQ

See 2.48 :) haha

Care of Chatch, I can't fly like that even with balanced props!

blueprint
15th May 2013, 11:11 AM
What do you think is going to fix the yaw? I run very similar settings on my 500 frame but have a zero I on my yaw. Not saying I like it exactly like that but it does have something to it. Seems to me if I took it up to .0010 it would be pretty damn good.
I was considering using a formula that Chatch mentioned find P, I = P / 3.5, D = I * 1.5. Please correct me if that is wrong Chatch. It seems all these people flying around with CC3D's don't even use the derivative, the settings I'm using I took straight from Juz....no D? I almost thought...bullshit that guy has to use a D but then I watch Chatch fly an think yeah well maybe not. I'm going to try the formula and see where my quad end up lol

Im going to play with the Derivitive a bit (KD) and see how she does. The yaw still seems to wag sometimes and i can't seem to fix it. Hopefully increased KD will help.

Steezus
15th May 2013, 02:48 PM
Im going to play with the Derivitive a bit (KD) and see how she does. The yaw still seems to wag sometimes and i can't seem to fix it. Hopefully increased KD will help.

I had different motors than you (2212 1100kv), but yaw was feeling pretty good to me with the settings below.

http://i.imgur.com/zxqbNnk.jpg

I raised the default yaw settings on the Naze before I ever flew it, added some derivative and it was really sloppy. I need to lower them and start from scratch on the D.

And what frequency are you on for FPV. I am on 1.2 and isn't that the worst one as far as fine detail in the actual picture is concerned?

blueprint
15th May 2013, 08:41 PM
Looks good. I'll mess with it a bit more tomorrow.

blueprint
15th May 2013, 08:43 PM
Thinking about changing to the flat G10 arms. What do you guys think?

ShawnG
15th May 2013, 09:08 PM
Thinking about changing to the flat G10 arms. What do you guys think?

That's how I'm going to order mine.

Steezus
15th May 2013, 09:14 PM
Guai is fast enough for me right now. I think I would need to hone my landing skills before I get flat arms.

JohnVH
15th May 2013, 09:15 PM
That's how I'm going to order mine.

diddo

blueprint
15th May 2013, 11:39 PM
The gaui arms are good and durable but im getting some wierd yaw characteristics. The tail seems to wag no matter how many different settings i've tried. Perhaps its the arms causing a "paddle" like affect? I cant get the tail locked in. It seems to sway quite a bit in fast forward flight. Slow wagging in rate mod on yaw but a little better in axis lock.

Chatch. When will you have the flat g10 arms back in stock?

chatch
16th May 2013, 03:08 PM
i have 60 of them in stock

hadriez
17th May 2013, 12:16 PM
damn..two of my TIGER motors has gone bizzare :(
see the sound of it (crank up the volume).. it has less than 20 flights and never crashed it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjPezPXGy0A

Joesa3rd
17th May 2013, 12:49 PM
I hear some bad bearings there and by the way it's not a good idea to run up your motors more then about 1/4-3/8 throttle without any load.

chatch
17th May 2013, 01:27 PM
sounds pretty awful. I'll tell tiger and see if they can throw in 20-30 packs of free bearings to send to you guys

Grox
17th May 2013, 01:48 PM
damn..two of my TIGER motors has gone bizzare :(
see the sound of it (crank up the volume).. it has less than 20 flights and never crashed it.
[/video]

I have one like that too :( seems to fly fine, though. Still haven't got round to ordering new bearings.

chatch
17th May 2013, 01:55 PM
there's no reason a $50 motor should have the bearings go bad after a few flights

hadriez
17th May 2013, 01:57 PM
I hear some bad bearings there and by the way it's not a good idea to run up your motors more then about 1/4-3/8 throttle without any load.
yeah sounds like bad bearings. yup, aware of it. just wanted to record the sound. and i only connected 3 cell lipo on it.

Gottahunt
17th May 2013, 04:29 PM
sounds pretty awful. I'll tell tiger and see if they can throw in 20-30 packs of free bearings to send to you guys

Chris, ask for replacement c-clips also.

Thanx

chatch
18th May 2013, 02:39 AM
ok we are now in my subforum, no longer in rotorcraft :D

gottahunt: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scorpion-C-Clip-Kit-for-HK-22-Motor-3-17mm-Shaft-/300894326464?pt=US_Radio_Control_Control_Line&hash=item460eb30ec0

i will ask in the meantime for clips

Flying Monkey
18th May 2013, 07:13 PM
Oh good grief... they really will let anybody have a subforum!!! Lol :p

ShawnG
19th May 2013, 08:41 PM
Hey guy's any of you running this quad with kk 2.0 board if so may I ask you for you're settings.

Thanks!

chatch
20th May 2013, 12:25 AM
i ran it with kk 2.0, pete runs it with it, ibcrazy runs kk 2.0(actually he uses my old board :p)

for roll:
70 p
35 i

for pitch:
80 p
40 i

yaw: 75 p
32 i

leave the limits default

ShawnG
20th May 2013, 12:45 AM
Thanks Chatch!

whakahere
20th May 2013, 06:46 AM
hey chatch. do the current batch of 2216-9 motors have the said bad bearings? If so are you getting spare bearings and when are they meant to be in? I need a quad to show off at the euro summer meet this year. 6 weeks left. Can't go taking one with buggered bearings.

ShawnG
20th May 2013, 09:07 AM
Hey guy's any of you running this quad with kk 2.0 board if so may I ask you for you're settings.

Thanks!

One more question, what about mix editor settings?

Thanks!