Patch or yagi for RC control

[Toysrme]

I agree with the guy that uploaded that video. That crap is hard to watch.

[Pelagic Pilot]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the feedback and have great appreciation for the existance of the FPVLab community as a whole. I have learned a great deal of information from the members here. I do however get a sense that my later post with details about the project may have been "skimmed quickly" rather than read all the way through. There were a few new questions asked that were not covered yet so I will add that info here along with the previous info that is pertinent to the lock out concerns.

The Spektrum example in the video is NOT what would be used for the project, I am looking at the Futaba 10CAP with a carbon fiber Fasst Rx (The ones with the long antenna), the VTx considered is 900 Mhz (with pass filter) unless over the next year of research I discover that there is something better. The heli will be a 600 size Gasser with Zenoah engine (resistor spark plug), 30 -45 minutes of run time.

For Fail Safe/Lock Out/Loss of RC Signal, as I said, we are planning a DJI Ace One FBL/Auto Pilot/GPS system on board. This is a $3,500.00 commercial/industrial full helicopter auto pilot way point capable system. Should you fly beyond your RC signal the helicopter simply stops and holds a hover for a pre determined amount of time, then it will climb in elevation to a limit you choose, turn around and head back all on it's own, and land. There is no falling out of the sky and crashing, if you wanted to bring the heli back to you and land it while flying, you could just reach up and turn off your radio and sit down in a lawn chair and wait for it. The system provides for self leveling in flight, and attitude control. But since it stops when you lose signal, when it turns around to head back it will probably only need to come back 100' or so and then once in range of the RC Tx you are in control again automatically.

What I need though is to be able to do manual control in order to perform a task out to distances of 6076.12' feet and not one inch further than that. So I am just looking for an antenna combination that someone has tried that would give us the best chance of working at that distance on the rare occasion that we might need to. Mostly the operations would be within the 2,500' - 4,000' range on average I would suspect. If we do an antenna tracker then the RC Tx could be placed on there as well, maybe a dipole on the heli and a patch on the ground?

Basically what I was looking for was some sort of info that would show me what 2.4 "could do" with the best case scenario. If through my research I constantly came up with a max range of 1,000' then I would get the point real quick, give up, move on. But instead I come up with a lot of multi mile success stories out there, I have seen it works for at least a few people out to nearly 3 miles or more, and if they can do that then there is no reason to dismiss the possibility of it working out to only 1 mile for me.

[Jack2010]

With that said I would say that you have three options:

1. Boost you RC signal.
2. Improve the range by using more efficient antennas/tracker.
3. Both.

IMHO the distance we are talking about plus the extra security provided by DJI makes your task doable with the decent level of security while using 2.4 RC.

Based on my own experience with 2.4 RC on Spektrum (DX8 with 70mW RF module) I can tell you that on standard antennas (both TX and RX) I had no issues at range of 1.300m (0.8 mile/ 4.250 feet) flying my quadrocopter with 0.6mW 1.2 VTX. I can only imagine that your heli you will not generate more RF noise than my quadro and that Futaba is not worse than Spektrum.

On 1W booster I did 2km (1.25 mile/ 6.550 feet) with no issues at all and that is already beyond your needs.

If I were you I would go for boosting the signal while keeping standard antennas because it is rather simple and reliable. 1W, max 2W will be more than enough for the job. There are quite a few WiFi boosters on the market (from 0.5 up to 4W of power) that are suitable for boosting our RC signal (you can search ebay with "wifi booster" - I think this one would be my call for you: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Signal-Boost...item415a616c01 or this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2W-Wifi-Wire...item2a1eea5e83 but with standard anntena like this: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=16669 ). Using the booster with standard RC RX/TX omnidirectional antennas gives you the comfort of not worrying about tracking the heli. For me it was important not to play with the tracker/antennas and have a freedom of where I fly in the same time.

Also, if available, would be good to have pseudo RC RSSI info on your OSD. Do not know the Futaba world to advise you on details on how to do it but I can provide you with the links that should give you some understanding of what am I talking about. There they are:
Booster: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1247186
RSSI: http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread....trum-receivers

[Vitamin J]

PP, the record for 2.4ghz control is something like 40 km. It's possible alright.

However, you say you have a $3,500 autopilot, which is more than my car is worth. Why on Earth wouldn't you just buy a UHF system for $300 and have the best you can have?

[Toysrme]

+10 V-J. itll always go back to the same thing. most people won't trust said radio system at a mile with a $300usd easy* clone. why send a multi thousand dollar heli up with it?
you can make anything do anything. it takes time, knowledge & money. why waste any of it? by the time you buy a patch & buy a booster, you're a good portion of the way to have simply bought a UHF system!


lemmie go about this from the different angle. it's not *one* think that makes 2.4ghz (and we're especially talking spektrum equipment here) suck. it's a laundry list of potential issues. look it obviously makes no nevermind to anybody what you use. there is not right & wrong, only bad better & best.

[Jack2010]

Thanks guys, 2.4 is my only option and I really would like to work out to 6,076.12' reliably on a helicopter.....

If it is the case (for some reasons), then the only way is boosting and/or antennas game.

[Flying Monkey]

So why exactly is 2.4 your only option??

[Martinba77]

You can always buy a cheap slow stick and give it a go with your RC system, if you find out that it is good at the range you are looking for, then maybe you gain some confidence and learn something in the way!
I agree that UHF systems are way more reliable not only for range but overall peace of mind flying, however I see some people get UHF into failsafe at less than 2KM or even less...
I use FrSKY hack module on a DX7 Spektrum radio equipment, I was out 1.8KM and dont have a single RSSI beap/alarm. This using a 5dBi "OMNI" antenna on the RC Tx and 2xDIY half wave dipoles tuned to frequency on the RC Rx. Also fly pretty low at more than 1KM to 1.2KM without a single beap alarm.

If you persist in your idea of using your Spektrum system for your projects, I will personally reccomend an 6 to 8dBi 2.4GHz aPatch style antenna on the RC Tx end and 2x DIY half wave dipoles if your RC Rx has u.fl sockets on its board to change the stock quarter wave antennas. One placed V and the other H with good separation between the two.

Since you said your pattern will be out and back then you dont need to worry to much about patch orientation.

If you read till this point I will like to add that I never flew till I get a FailSafe or a faster beaping on the FrSKY RSSI stage. I am not a range pilot.

As a final note I will like to add that maybe you do better if you listen to the more seasoned pilots here, so go buy an UHF! LOL LOL
Martin

[roberto]

VJ is right.

and...

1) If you just want to test your RTH, just turn the RC TX off right around the corner.
2) All LR flights I´ve seen with 2.4 were done on fixed wing with LOTS of separation.
3) As per TBS guidelines, you would be much better off with a 5.8 video gear, you are choosing the noisiest video gear for this.

Of course this could work but there are a lot of ifs in this equation. And what does it prove? Rest assured most here will never consider 2.4 for FPV even if you succeed.

wish you the best luck and please report back to us.

[rcmike]

yes please heed the warning sentry is giving you.

for every person that's gone 1-2 miles on spektrum. another ten have crashed LOS at 1/2 a mile

View this video on YouTube

everyone is going to do what they're going to do. i do the same with 72mhz. ive pushed it plenty too. the moral is you better have a failsafe & you better be OK when a flight ends with the dreaded vowels:
WH
TH
SN
CR

That 2.4 radio sure has a long antenna on it.