It's sickening that they would risk letting people die because of their own selfish interests, but I guess that's the name of the game for the US government overlords.
As soon as we get the spare time, my bro and I are going to start working on a crowd sourced search and rescue image website, where volunteers can go through uploaded photos to look for anomalies. (I think it was originally Myron's idea)
Don't steal, the government hates competition.
Volto, that's fantastic. I'm a web developer too, and have done lots of collaborative image annotation on the web in my past. I can't use code from previous projects, but I can whip something up using jQuery pretty quick. If you're into Python on the back end, then I can help there too. Do you have any hosting lined up yet?
I'm thinking that we could do an image upload... display the images and let people place flags or something on the images.
Another page would let people browse the images that have hits
And that page could use google maps to show on a regular map where that particular image was taken.
Yeah they obviously don't want any dramatic headlines about how a hobbyist is saving lives with his RC plane because then how can they justify the police and military monopoly on UAVs and their $200k each price tag.
An HD video link would be perfect for an S&R plane. Fly through a normal SD system but then you can stream the HD footage back to people on the ground with only a short delay.
Yeah we have an unlimited storage/domains/bandwidth host already that we would use. We were thinking about using something like this http://www.nealgrosskopf.com/tech/thread.php?pid=62 for image tagging, and send a notification with coordinates, google map is a good idea too. We should definitely collaborate. I don't know anything about Python, my bro has a degree in CS though. We do most stuff in PHP/MySQL.Originally Posted by jimmaplesong
Don't steal, the government hates competition.
Wow, I dont know how I missed this one for a day and a half!.. It would be nice if it was easy to just volunteer your time and be able to go help out. In the beginning of this thread, I posted some pertinent links to FAA docs. Simple explantion is that the FAA considers model airplanes sUAS. They dont have the regulations in place for these to operate in the NAS. They claim to be diligently working on the regs and that a law enforcement only version to be ready this spring and the private sector wont be ready for 2 years. This whole deal tends to get people riled up and opinions can sometimes get the best of us. I post the links and end encourage everyone interested in helping out to call the FAA first Steve Glowacki at teh FAA UAPO 202-385-4898. These are public servants so they have to talk to you, so dont be affraid to call.
When we were told that we coudlnt fly on the Jesse Davis Search, we were warned that we could get in alot of trouble but were not explained under exactly what law or statute other than The patriot act or homeland security. When I talked to Steve (years later)about the incident he explained it like this, And I will try to keep it as short as possible.. ITs much like driving a car while under the influence. Aviation laws are in place with penalties.. If you operate an Aircraft(your small model plane is included.. go back and see the definition of a sUAS in the FAA docs i posted) in an "unsafe or reckless" manner, you are in violation of the law. You may say "I'm being safe and not doing anything reckless".. their viewpoint is that your operating an aircraft with NON FAA approved avionics.. hence "dangerous or reckless". This is the quick easy explanation.. dont shoot the messenger! Call Steve for yourself if you want verification.
Now to the good stuff.. We have discovered over the years, that its best to have more than just a cresent wrench in your tool box. If you looking for a person that has met with foul play, a high res digital camera is best. You can fly a grid at a few hundred feet, GEO reference the pics and then start analyizing them on the ground. Our 2nd Recovery was located by his white tennis shoes on the green and brown backdrop of west texas prarie. You can also spot out other things like piles of discolored earth or a patches of vegetation that is different. We found a guy that was neutrally boyant in Buffalo Bayou in Houston and we spotted out his white Tshirt under 18 inches of murky water. We have also spotted out 84 pot plants on a suspects property that may have been involved in a murder...
When we fly for the fire department it is always live video.. It SCARY to see how fast a fire can move and digital stills just dont work!
A house fire or standoff situation.. Rotorwing is the best way to go!
RP Search Services is a 501c3 NON-PROFIT corporation.. RP Flight Systems is a for profit that manufactures the wings for RP Search. I am Co-founder of RP Search and currently sit on the board and am the PIO. I was employed by RP Flight for a while, but with the looming regs scared me into spending more time building my semiconductor hardware business. Good thing, because the Feds have corporate america too scared to buy sUAS's!!
I gotta get pick up my kid, so more to come in a little while!
Myron
Now, I'm going back to respond to some of the questions here..
@ vitamin J.. I dont think there are any affordable and light weight systems that transmit HD signal from say a go-pro or similar. I sent emails to several of the VTX guys and the best I got was 400 lines.
@ Volto I used to own the url "onlinesar.com" but that went away a long time ago. Were in tight with the EOC at San Diego State Univ. Visualization Lab and we have transmitted back to them VIA Satellite from a DHS emergency simulation in Arizona.. The feed was great, but NOT HD by any stretch. The biggest problem is getting the bandwidth at a mobile command system. When you have hundreds of 5 megabyte photos, its adds up quick and slows everything way down. When Steve Fossett went missing a "mechanical trunk" was set up for volunteers to log on to view up to date satellite images to look for the wreckage. If you can get Bandwidth donated, maybe we should talk offline to see what we can do.
@ Jimmaplesong We set up the non profit to help fund the searches we were already going on with Texas Equusearch. We were sinking tons of resources into searching and we felt this was the only way to defray cost. At the time, RP Flight Systems was pretty new as well and we also had aspirations of selling some systems and doing the searches did generate interest, however, when LE discovered they would have to jump through hoops to use it, they all backed down. We were going to do a SAR Challenge back in 07 in conjunction with RCAPA.NET and I had already secured a 3000acre ranch to hold the excercises and training, but right around that time the FAA basically grounded everyone when they put out the documents stating that model planes were UAV's.. the whole thing went down the drain until the Australians picked it up and ran with it and they have a good program working there now.
It would be pretty easy to drop a walki talki or cel phone to someone that was in trouble. We were on the Mt. Hood search a few years back, and with the weather as bad as it was, we were actually thinking about just sacraficing the UA if we made visual contact through the FPV set.. We figured that the onboard GPS would last long enough for us to get close to the hikers. There are literally hundreds of ways help in a SAR situation.
Myron
Last edited by Myron; 10th January 2012 at 07:55 PM.
Yeah, bandwidth would be the problem. I was thinking they could be uploaded by a cell phone connection, but that is often slow or unavailable when you are far enough away from civilization. Satellite internet connections would be the best, something like wildblue, but I'm not sure what kind of upload speed you can get with that.
Their website says "up to 256 Kbps" for upload... so a 1mb image would take around 31 seconds to upload.
Last edited by volto; 10th January 2012 at 08:33 PM.
Don't steal, the government hates competition.
I need to help Myron out with his facts here about RPSearch Services and give a little history lesson.
I applied for the 501(c)3 status because in the early days, the FAA landed on the "commercial" use of UA as being the legality for its' prohibition. By definition, a non-profit, charity with a 501(c)3 designation as assigned by that other three letter government agency (the IRS) CANNOT be a commercial entity or show a profit. THAT was the real reason for getting the non-profit status. And the process in getting it was no fun.....I hated the IRS interviews!
Because a some of us saw the handwriting on the wall, myself and Rick Connolly formed the Remote Control Aerial Photography Association (RCAPA) to build an association of like minded APer's and structure a guideline much like the AMA did to be self governed. In the early days, we fought any suggestion of federal regulation even though we were lionized as trying to instigate that very thing! Still don't know how that thought process started. In lieu of federal regulation, we at RCAPA put together a consensus based operational and safety guideline along with a prototype online testing system for self certification. I wrote an electronic log book software that is still available so we could keep track of how many hours were safely flown, and of course, the number of crashes too. This association carried enough clout to get one of our own representatives (Patrick Egan) on the first Agency Regulatory Committee (ARC) established by the FAA to start defining regulations.
As a certified pilot, I have been working with the FAA since February 13th 2007 in an attempt to get all this crap hammered out because - yes, I had a vested interest in RPFlight Systems, but discovered we could be effective at SAR work and disaster mitigation. So we looked for every way to comply with the existing laws but still allow us to fly. I even went so far as to resign as an officer and from the board of RCAPA just so I could "go rogue" and not impact their good work, but the rest of the board wouldn't let me go.
I have flown literally hundreds of SAR and law enforcement missions in 29 states and 4 countries under the charity banner. I have called it "recreational flying" to appease new calls to stop my activities, even though I do nothing any different than any one of you do with your FPV equipment on a Saturday afternoon. That came to light when I went to Indiana to assist in the Lauren Spierer case. Another time I landed and my cell phone rang and it was FAA headquarters in DC saying "You can't fly". I calmly told the voice on the other end that I was flying an R/C profile - no waypoint navigation, no autopilots, just a camera. He said "Oh, well then.... have a nice day!".
Unfortunately, the director of FAA ATO, Ms. Ardyth Williams made a capricious decision on her way out at five o'clock that because I was doing it in an "official" capacity for law enforcement, it was "disapproved". Made me look pretty bad to LE after I told them it was OK, and I had already flown two missions! Bubba was NOT a happy camper!
So back around to this thread topic..... the truth made inconvenient by the FAA is - There is no such thing as "recreational flying" in a SAR situation.
In truth though, there are agencies out there that will weigh the benefits over the risks and say "Just go do it", especially when there is a life on the line. As I understand it, the San Diego SAR just hung up the phone on the FAA when we were assisting them on the Chelsea King case. That was as we were boarding an FBI chopper with our gear to go map an area for the searchers!
So, I encourage anyone to go discuss this with their local PD, fire, or SAR team you may be surprised at what their attitude may be.
...and maybe I should write a book.... yeah, that's the ticket! A book!
Gene
The Search that started this thread. If any of you are local to this and have a plane equipped with a digital camera, you might be able to help out. The Feds are looking for disturbed earth. Many of the searches we have been on, the perpetrator will usually go for a water dump or no more than about 100 feet off the side of a roadway.
Being it is the FBI requesting help, a COA might not be a big problem to get. You dont even need FPV. Just a plane with a verticle shooting camera.. LOS and less than 400 feet is optimal.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/16/justic...html?hpt=hp_t3
I read that article too. It sounded to me like they were asking the public for help... but only as far as to have every landowner look for disturbed earth around their own land. Maybe the thing to do would be to contact specific landowners to offer to search their acreage.
It sounds like they are appreciating the big volunteer effort though. UAVs just might be welcome.
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