Crist Rigotti Goes The Distance...

[aviatordave]

63 km yesterday by Crist.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1416256

no pit stops.

[Avenger GBU-1H]

Impressive...this guy is an FPV gawd!

[PnoT]

It's awesome but no video is pretty gay...

[aviatordave]

Well, he is letting people see it in reference to post #1 in that thread.

[Wearyman]

63 km yesterday by Crist.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1416256

no pit stops.

Except that he's not letting anyone (but a tiny hand-selected group) see the video, and is being SUPER defensive about it. Sounds like either:

1. Hes BS-ing it and the flight is a fake.
2. He did the flight, but flew into controlled airspace in violation of FAA safety regulations and doesn't want to get caught, but still wants the record.

I'm leaning towards #2.

[Mark Hitchman]

Except that he's not letting anyone (but a tiny hand-selected group) see the video, and is being SUPER defensive about it. Sounds like either:

1. Hes BS-ing it and the flight is a fake.
2. He did the flight, but flew into controlled airspace in violation of FAA safety regulations and doesn't want to get caught, but still wants the record.

I'm leaning towards #2.

He flew higher than 400', big deal, I say he is straight up and will pick 4 people that have nothing to gain from it. Be cool if they all said bullshit and he had to post the whole video :)

Mark

[PnoT]

You can see from the screenshot he's WAY up there and is probably scared to post it so anyone can view it.

[Trappy]

I always thought long range is about maximum distance from pilot, not maximum distance travelled. I find it hilarious it took him this long to come up with another 4km range. I know why he isn't posting the video ... my motto is if you don't want to post the video, maybe you shouldn't have done the flight.

[Mark Hitchman]

I always thought long range is about maximum distance from pilot, not maximum distance travelled. I find it hilarious it took him this long to come up with another 4km range. I know why he isn't posting the video ... my motto is if you don't want to post the video, maybe you shouldn't have done the flight.

Flying 40 odd km is bloody difficult and I know I can't do it but flying out 30km and back is awesome. Not only do you have to fly out but you have to decide at what stage you turn so you can make it back, no one else is posting vids near this distance.
I think he is a legend, plus he gets a free receiver :D

Mark

[SENTRY]

FWIW Crist is a straight-up guy. He makes a lot of his own gear - he's hardly the worst guy over there. He is secretive about his flights and that's okay. His previous personal best was posted, and then the naysayers tore it apart (which is the problem with this sector of the hobby - the only sector that's worse is the glider guys - lol). He doesn't share tech as much as others unless you reach out to him personally - and then it's still kinda tough. When asked about his 2 battery setup for example... he says "that's what works for me". While I know WHY he didn't want to get into it (bc it's a subject that divides the movement for some reason), I think you serve the community by at least saying why you prefer or believe in it. I also agree that 30 seconds of the turnaround (w/ OSD) is not hard to post... but then again, the way this community rips apart personal accomplishments would make me gunshy as well. Crist would be one of my top 5 mentors/inspirations if he was more open to discussion to lesser experienced guys. Good job on the flight.

[Avenger GBU-1H]

+1 ........well said Sentry!

[Trappy]

well, my "problem" still stands ... if you don't want to post a video, you better not make the flight. I know why he didn't post the footage, because it's dangerous to fly these durations at these altitudes with this kind of aircraft. period. we go through many troubles to make our flights somewhat legal and safe, I'm hoping others will too. besides, if you're not going to share the full information with the community, why even claim the record? I don't get it ...

not to mention he's still 30% short of our record, and we flew with 1/3rd of his VTx power, and no tuned antennas. I feel a bit sorry for this guy, he has to tune and optimize so much to get even close to the performance we get :P

[SENTRY]

I don't mind the tech/tuning so much - everyone has a different environment to fly in, so what he needed to get it done doesn't matter to me... even you realized how tough it was to take on Miss Liberty. But I do agree though that why make the claim if you're not going to post it - or at least post a summarized version of it. That'd be like me saying I'm faster than Michael Phelps, but refusing to post proof. :) To think that the people that he allowed to see the video are under some binding contract to not DL it or post it somewhere and share it with others is just not being smart. I think flights like that are great in a competition - but personal bests should be ummm - personal (unless you want to release ALL data). I mean not releasing the video AND not sharing altitude is kinda "blah". The 1st post of the thread is all "the FAA, AMA, CIA, FBI, IHOP (International House of Pancakes), FCC" really needs to pursue him if they wanted to, so why not post more info? LOL. I do like the fact that he went out and back though.

At any rate - this is a TBS thread. Are there any plans for TBS to bust their personal best (range)?

[twinturbostang]

not to mention he's still 30% short of our record, and we flew with 1/3rd of his VTx power, and no tuned antennas. I feel a bit sorry for this guy, he has to tune and optimize so much to get even close to the performance we get :P
Give him a break though.. He did that with a 14 dBi video antenna, which isn't even "high gain" by your standards. :)

[Wearyman]

well, my "problem" still stands ... if you don't want to post a video, you better not make the flight. I know why he didn't post the footage, because it's dangerous to fly these durations at these altitudes with this kind of aircraft. period. we go through many troubles to make our flights somewhat legal and safe, I'm hoping others will too. besides, if you're not going to share the full information with the community, why even claim the record? I don't get it ...

This is kinda my issue to. I understand that the FPV community has a few people that are just absolute pricks and will rip apart anything anyone else does. The only explanation I can offer for that is that in every community you will find some sociopaths. FPV is no different. So I can empathize with begin a bit defensive.

But his totally closed-off approach is what I don't get. If you are THAT afraid of being attacked; If you are THAT afraid of having problems because you did something that perhaps straddles the line of legality; Then why try and get the recognition and accolades? You did it, you know you did it, Just keep it to yourself and be satisfied knowing that you did it. Don't go trying to seek fame by posting a big splashy post of: "Hey everybody, I broke the record! But you can't see the evidence, you'll just have to take my word for it." I mean, COME ON. No matter how much of a stand-up guy you are, that kind of behavior just makes you look like an ass.

[Ian Davidson]

Crist's achievement is impressive for sure. However, I do find his tone and attitude bizarre, bordering on obnoxious. He doesn't really endear himself to others. Shame really.

[aviatordave]

All Crist is describing is a long duration flight nonstop with no pit stops. It is legit. He goes through plenty of work to make sure his flights are "somewhat legal and safe". FWIW we all know most people on the forums and have no reason to deny credibility at this point. I say make judgments after the 4 people watch the video.

anyways, I want to see Trappys next adventure.

[Trappy]

I know the flight is legit. I wouldn't care if it wasnt. I want to learn from the video.

Twinturbo: a 14dbi @ 1.2 is a 20dbi at 2.4/500mW and easily a 24dbi at 1.5W

[Mark Hitchman]

:D
well, my "problem" still stands ... if you don't want to post a video, you better not make the flight. I know why he didn't post the footage, because it's dangerous to fly these durations at these altitudes with this kind of aircraft. period. we go through many troubles to make our flights somewhat legal and safe, I'm hoping others will too. besides, if you're not going to share the full information with the community, why even claim the record? I don't get it ...

not to mention he's still 30% short of our record, and we flew with 1/3rd of his VTx power, and no tuned antennas. I feel a bit sorry for this guy, he has to tune and optimize so much to get even close to the performance we get :P

Chewing on some sour grapes there Trappy :D

He makes his own antennas and you make out it's a bad thing, :confused:

Different record, flying out until your battery goes flat is totally different than planning for the return trip.

Be happy for the guy, he has accomplished something no one else has, if he gets the right people to review it they will copy it and put it on youtube :D:D

If you can't do it yourself stop the whining, no wonder there are so many attacks about what you say, a bit of positive thinking goes a long way, he has done an amazing flight.

Your attitude is unbelievable and makes zero sense.

Mark

[Trappy]

:D

Chewing on some sour grapes there Trappy :D

He makes his own antennas and you make out it's a bad thing, :confused:

Different record, flying out until your battery goes flat is totally different than planning for the return trip.

Be happy for the guy, he has accomplished something no one else has, if he gets the right people to review it they will copy it and put it on youtube :D:D

If you can't do it yourself stop the whining, no wonder there are so many attacks about what you say, a bit of positive thinking goes a long way, he has done an amazing flight.

Your attitude is unbelievable and makes zero sense.

Mark
Why would I be chewing on sour grapes? He didn't beat the record in the (only) discipline we ever competed at. he didn't even come close. Great he made the flight, but now refuses to post ANY kind of information even though he has it. Why make the claim? If you're afraid you'd get locked up, a video would only be the cherry on the cake. The claim itself is enough to get you into trouble. What does the community have to gain from a claim from this? What does ANYONE have to gain from a claim like this?

The only thing that makes zero sense is your response. I'd like to remind you that this is a moderated forum. If you make one more personal attack you're out for good.

[Mark Hitchman]

I don't know if you read his first post in the thread, going by your response obviously not, he lists all the gear he used including photos and a brief explanation, how you call that no information is beyond me. He does not want to show the transmitted video, the reasons are clear whether you agree with them or not.

If you are the moderator, BAN ME NOW.

Mark

[Trappy]

obviously I have read the post. the information posted there presents absolutely no new information. all further posts will be deleted.

[Mark Hitchman]

So his home built yagi is not new info? What is the problem you have with him doing so well?

Mark

[ssassen]

I'd have to agree with Trappy on the record though, flying out to 44km and actually landing the plane (okay, granted, not his best landing, poor cabbage) is something entirely different than flying out to 31.6km at several 1000 feet up and turning around.

[arch001]

The only thing that makes zero sense is your response. I'd like to remind you that this is a moderated forum. If you make one more personal attack you're out for good.

Wow, this just gave me a RcGroups flashback. Arbitrary moderation anyone.. Calling Marks comments personal attacks is kind of pushing it. Most of them are referring to your opinions and are not really personal insults.

[Trappy]

I'd have to agree with Trappy on the record though, flying out to 44km and actually landing the plane (okay, granted, not his best landing, poor cabbage) is something entirely different than flying out to 31.6km at several 1000 feet up and turning around.
tell that to RiSCyD ... he flew the last leg :D we wanted to overshoot the cabbage, but ESC LVC surprised us a bit :)

[SENTRY]

I have moved this to a new thread. I didn't see anything that was a personal attack - I do see opinions - I hope that The Collective can express our opinions professionally without all the hooplah - let's not forget why this place exisits. PLEASE disagree - we only learn from it when people can support their views/opinions.... BUT KEEP IT PROFESSIONAL.

On the subject of TBS moderating the TBS forum - he (Trappy) was correct. The link to Crist's flight was dumped in TBS's forum when technically it doesn't even belong there as TBS didn't make the flight. :) In that regard TBS was right to moderate the content however they see fit. The discussion is now where it should have been placed in the beginning (not your fault Aviator, I can see why you felt it belonged there - :) ), and all comments have been restored as I do not view any of them as "an attack".

Take it easy on each other guys... the paint on the walls is still drying over here - let's not trash the place just yet. ;)

--> Amazing accomplishment Crist. Again, I'll say that personal accomplishments should be kept personal. But once you want to go for a "record" (and you call it a record) then it should be subject to peer review, and "not" just people that "you" choose to review it. Maybe we need to establish some rules or a "discerning body" to verify long-range flights.

Sentry

[Trappy]

the personal attack was one post before that :) either way, the thread was going off-topic in the typical RCGroups sense. I say something, someone takes it the wrong way and starts with an offensive post, things go down the drain and we're at the regular "back-and-forth". I'd like to remind people that you are always free to vent in a PM (which I will ignore ... but it might make you feel better).

In any case, Crist still hasn't learned his lesson. The last time he made a record and didn't post the footage we almost doubled his record just to show him that if he wants to have a record (and keep it) he better respect the community that has helped him achieve said record. We've modified my TBS Ultimate Zeph to go a "little" further on the same battery. Waiting for good weather now. Or for Crist to publicly post his flight. Whichever comes first :)

[SENTRY]

I'm too busy enjoying FPV to worry about anything other than my own personal bests - you're a competitor, that's great. I'll let the "power players" compete - they learn what works and what doesn't, and then I get to get it right the 1st time out due to your efforts. LMFAO. It's a win-win for the little guy who's just hanging on and watching you guys work. FRIENDLY competition is awesome - albeit pointless unless you launch from the same site at the same time. But it still makes for some great ratings. :) I've never been a hater and love to see any1 succeed - especially when I know what kinda hard work it takes to get there. Kudos to Crist.

PS: I don't ask people to post videos just because I haven't seen a video before - I don't ask people to post them because I wanna prove them wrong. I ask people to post them so I LEARN what kinda video the experienced guys are getting at what ranges --- I can compare that to mine so I can adjust my methods to get better. To me it's all about growing the tech. But a RECORD (especially if you title it as such) should be held to a higher standard of proof.

[Trappy]

SENTRY, that's exactly why we do these record-breaking flights ... people need to learn how to do these kinds of things, posting a list of components used with a few pictures and not including the video (I'd argue at least 50% of the flight is in the piloting) is not helping anyone. anyways, maybe Crist reads this and decides to post the footage. Or his record will be beaten within a week's time. It really doesn't matter much to me, we've got the system here that goes 4x as far as his ... all we need is the motivation to do it.

[Mark Hitchman]

I like your moderation Sentry, well done.

I still find it a little amusing that some people take a guy flying his plane a long distance as a personal attack on their world, interesting :)

I am going for a new world record, longest distance flight under 100 feet altitude above sea level. I think 2.4Ghz video would be best for this with the smaller fresnel zone and all.
I will try to remember to record my flight on my ground station, I don't need to push the stop button :)

Well done Crist, FPV legend.

Mark

[Mark Hitchman]

Thanks for the PM Trappy, much appreciated :)

The yagi he used not only had the photo but also the software he used to design and build it so saying it was just a long distance photo of it is still the "not quite ripe grape argument" :)

If you count the directors in the photo, input them with the frequency to yagi design software he linked to you can build a yagi the same. It's really good software, I have used it for designing cell phone antenna.
Now tell me again how he is not providing any info.

Don't you hate it when you send a smug PM about deleting my posts and they come back again :)
PS. Love your flying and your videos.

Mark

[PnoT]

I'm new to FPV and haven't even flown my first mission yet since I'm waiting for equipment but the "new record" really means squat unless we can see it. If he's doing something illegal to begin with and the powers that be want to round him up then there's nothing he can do about it. You want people to pat you on the back and say "good job" and recognize an accomplishment you keep hidden and only show to a few people... cmon.

Either you throw it out there and and go "Yea, that's my sh$t" or you keep it to yourself.

Just my 2 cents...

[ssassen]

Well, if you can't share the video of your accomplishment because you are afraid of any ramifications of your flight, why bother posting about it in the first place? I can post some pics of my setup, a vague shot which could've come from anywhere and claim the long distance record myself, easy! And I'm sure the majority of folks would believe me in a heartbeat, I'm the sassiest FPV pilot nonetheless .... I think one thing we've learned from the whole discussion on RCG is that any such claim needs to be verifyable, if not, then it is invalid.

I sent Crist a few PMs trying to motivate him to show me the movie, he kindly declined, which leads me to believe he doesn't want any peer reviews. That raises a few red flags with me, as why wouldn't you want a peer review? What better validation than from someone intimately familiar with long range flying?

[Mark Hitchman]

Well, to be honest, I was hoping he would at least show you and ibcrazy, I can't see you saying he did it if he didn't and ibcrazy has a cult following and god won't let him lie. That would have at least verified the authenticity of the flight. I have no doubts myself but it would be pretty cool if he just said Fu-- it here it is guys, catch me if you can :)

Mark

[Martin Y]

I'd like to know where he finds that much space void of trees, buildings, hills, mountains, noise. Flying between mountains, signals bounce around like mad for getting distance's easily but wide open areas is totally different. But still proof is still in the pudding, or in this case of this forum Waffels.

[Trappy]

I find it funny people doubt his claims. I'm more appaled that he doesn't share the video ... I have no trouble believing he went 30km because quite honestly I have trouble understanding what's so difficult about reaching 30km. Either way, as we've said before, the modifications are done, we just need to see what kind of range we'll be able to achieve. It should be interesting to see if he posts the footage before we do the flight ... that's the only way to keep the record beyond mid april, really :)

Mark, I sent you a PM. I know you'd like to show everyone what kind of moron I am, but please, respond to PMs in PM. You're this close to derailing this thread a 2nd time.

[IBCrazy]

I'd like to know where he finds that much space void of trees, buildings, hills, mountains, noise. Flying between mountains, signals bounce around like mad for getting distance's easily but wide open areas is totally different. But still proof is still in the pudding, or in this case of this forum Waffels.
He's in Iowa. Lots of flat land out there. Low RF traffic too.

[Coyote]

I think he also wants to keep the flight private because he was flying around 2000ft which puts him in dodgy airspace at that height.

[Martin Y]

He's in Iowa. Lots of flat land out there. Low RF traffic too.

OK, That explains alot.

[Mark Hitchman]

Looks like Alex (IBcrazy) will get to see the video, lucky Bas---d :)

Never got your PM Trappy, wasn't nasty was it?
Don't ever think that when I disagree with you that I am doing anything but that, I can't stand by if I disagree with something, I like having discussions. Opinions are like arseholes, everyones got one :)

Mark
Ma

[Trappy]

2000 ft? I wouldn't be surprised if he flew at 5x that altitude :)

[aviatordave]

Trappy I'd like to see you go farther. How come you dont just lose that hot rod and get something more for distance?

Breaking the distance record now set is cool and all but really.....

Here is a question -

Who was the first person to break the speed of sound?

ok

So who was second? :)

[Trappy]

We will not break the speed of sound. Period. It's just too dangerous. It wouldn't be very difficult though ... just get a hotliner, fill it up with lead, pull it a good 20km up and let it rip.

I have planes that can easily go 5x the distance of Crist Rigottis flight. My supra can soar 7h at 60kph cruise, 80kph with proper camber adjustments. Including thermal seeking, we could do about 300km, which would translate to 150km out and back. That's with a 5S 2200mAh battery. There's space for another 5S 5000mAh in the wings and it can EASILY take that weight. Again, the question is one of safety. Do you really want to fly a 3.5m composite model that far away in crowded airspace? No spotter can see that far ... our approach to FPV has always been a safe one, we never fly in crowded airspace without a spotter since we do not have the chance to "see and avoid", the basic requirement for piloting.

And leaving all that aside, I just think it's bloody cool to have a model that you can modify for long range flight in 5mins (still the record holder may I add :) ). After the record flight put in different batteries and then rip down a mountain at 200kph, later add a GoPro and rip through a town. The Skywalker can only go the distance ... and I'd argue that it's getting to its limits at 60-80km. We should be able to outperform that with the Zephyr.

Anyways, looks like Crist won't be posting the footage. Off to test some of our mods. Aiming for a 95mA/km consumption figure on 3S. Wish me luck :)

Mark, to be honest I'm pretty tired of discussions. Keep them on RCG, there are plenty of people over there that will keep you entertained for a few months.

[twinturbostang]

I'd have to agree with Trappy on the record though, flying out to 44km and actually landing the plane (okay, granted, not his best landing, poor cabbage) is something entirely different than flying out to 31.6km at several 1000 feet up and turning around.
I agree. Flying out AND COMING BACK HOME is much more impressive! :)

One way trip is just about proving your equipment can get you out that far. That's great. Flying round trip though is much more difficult. Not only does your equipment have to be of highest quality, but it all has to be built around an airframe that is efficient enough to do a round trip flight. Much more difficult.

Trappy's Supra should be up for the challenge. I don't think he's posted any FPV videos from it yet though.

[Trappy]

Trappy's Supra should be up for the challenge. I don't think he's posted any FPV videos from it yet though.
read above. there are some pretty good reasons why I have not yet posted any FPV footage from the supra. If you thought the Zephyr was fast, or if you thought the Skywalker was efficient, wait until later this year :)

[twinturbostang]

Never said the Skywalker was efficient (although it's definitely better than some planes.. like my Twinstar). Obviously the Supra would kill the Skywalker in that department, being a true glider with very aerodynamic airframe. Faster than the Zeph though?? Maybe in a dive. :)

[Trappy]

My supra climbs vertical at 80kph. A 70 degree climb at 120kph. The zephyr can't do vertical, and at 70 degrees it's maybe at 50kph. The cruise speed of the supra is around 60kph, which is the same for the zephyr. But the glide angle is 3x better on the Supra. If we change the glide angle of the Supra to the Zephyrs, we cruise at 120kph. There is not a single situation in which the Zephyr is faster. Having an efficient wing goes lengths!

[Coyote]

Where is your Supra incidentally Trappy, the last video was ages ago ? Are you still flying her ?

[Trappy]

sure, still flying her almost weekly. I just don't post the videos, people already complain enough about the foam models.

[Garbach]

IBcrazy saw the vid and posted a few frames on RCG and validated the distance. Looks like he was way up in the sky indeed by the looks of those screenshots!

[Trappy]

Well, the way you do these kind of flights is you take your glide ratio and climb at that ratio. Say you glide at 1:7. For a 30km flight you need 30/7 =4.2km altitude. So then you fly until you have x% battery left, then turn around and gliede back home. A return flight usually needs about 1Ah. And x is your risk factor, I'd go with 30

[twinturbostang]

Wind is a critical factor though, and can affect your calculations substantially.

[Garbach]

Well, the way you do these kind of flights is you take your glide ratio and climb at that ratio. Say you glide at 1:7. For a 30km flight you need 30/7 =4.2km altitude. So then you fly until you have x% battery left, then turn around and gliede back home. A return flight usually needs about 1Ah. And x is your risk factor, I'd go with 30

So with your supra you would only have to go up like 400 meters to get the same result with it's insane glide ratio?

[Trappy]

Supra is a different kind of flying. It's not powered so thermal locations play an important role. obviously quite a bit more challenging, but takes a lot more time.