2.4 GHz 500mW - Lawmate vs. ImmersionRC?

[JBeloncik]

So I've pretty much decided on a 500mW 2.4 GHz setup, but want to hear your opinions on Lawmate vs. ImmersionRC/Airwave.

Cost difference is minimal, so that is not much of a factor for me right now.

thanks!
-JB

[SENTRY]

I feel that the Immersion product is "better" than the LM as far as video quality, versatility and stablility (video/power). It was designed from the ground up to do what we do with it. The LM was not - and requires a fair amount of help (http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?1513-Lawmate-2.4gHz-500mw-Tech) in order to be stable and reliable. The LM wins in channel selections - but considering where you live that is a curse that can get you fined by the FCC due to illegal channels. The cable/connector on the LM is substandard - and requires micro-soldering to make a permanent fixture to your harness. The Immersion uses "standard" servo style connections - and can also use the locking connector if you wish. The LM is smaller and lighter - so if you have a tiny plane it may be the better buy. However, there is no support from LM for their product - you're on your own. Of course IRC is here to support any issues w/ the IRC brand of products. I have worked to get reliability from my LM vTx - where I was happy with the Immersion right out of the box. I have taken both long range with no issues on either end.

[JBeloncik]

Thanks for the info Sentry. I also like the idea of being able to use Fatshark's built-in Rx for shorter flights if I wanted to.

[SENTRY]

Right - to get a LM that's unlocked to use all of the legal channels, it also allows you to be able to use illegal channels. FCC compliant FPV retailers usually leave PIN 2 open - this way you get 1 LM freq and 1 AIRWAVE freq. Any other combination they unlock will allow you to go to an illegal channel - and it's 9,000$ per incident from the supplier side if they get popped.

[luzaban]

There is also a third one on the market: The fox "500mw" http://www.foxtechfpv.com/foxtech-24g-500mw-transmitter-p-180.html

Pros:
- 6 -16v
- Less Drift than lawmate
- higher efficiency than lawmate
- Out of wifi channels
- better connector than lawmate

Cons:
- SMA-RP connector
- no 500mw more like 900mw
- chinese (bad?!) quality

is anyone using this one ? I am considering to buy one so i can get rid of my 5v voltage regulator for the lawmate and using 12v regulator only.

[ssassen]

There is also a third one on the market: The fox "500mw" http://www.foxtechfpv.com/foxtech-24g-500mw-transmitter-p-180.html

Crap! They use the same locking connectors as ImmersionRC but with a different layout (they should be banned for that to begin with) you don't know how many Vtxs have been rendered defective due to this gross oversight. Their power supply design uses tantalum caps that *WILL* burst into flames with voltage spiking (which is common when connected to the flightpack due to the ESC switching), the ImmersionRC does not, it uses multilayer ceramic caps with at least 50% margin on the voltage rating. All in all you get what you pay for, as SENTRY so eloquently put it already.

[luzaban]

Crap! They use the same locking connectors as ImmersionRC but with a different layout (they should be banned for that to begin with) you don't know how many Vtxs have been rendered defective due to this gross oversight.
Jeah thats typical chinese. They start thinking but before they are finished thinking they already have a product on the market.



Their power supply design uses tantalum caps that *WILL* burst into flames with voltage spiking (which is common when connected to the flightpack due to the ESC switching), the ImmersionRC does not, it uses multilayer ceramic caps with at least 50% margin on the voltage rating. All in all you get what you pay for, as SENTRY so eloquently put it already.

well that seriously concerns me. But the price is the same like the lawmate one. Any chance for a IRC 2.4ghz tx with 2370 and 2510 ? Maybe by activating those channels with a secret trick :D .

[Trappy]

fully agreed with ssassen here, the PSU they use for that Video TX is extremely bad. The non-standard pinout alone should be a deal-breaker, the bulky plugs are way too big for the size of that thing too. BEVRC sells them too, stay away from these.
http://www.bevrc.com/bev-24g-500mw-transmitter-for-fpv-p-43.html

The transmitter itself comes from SkyRF if I remember correctly and is not that bad. Even though they rate it at 500mW it's actually around 800mW. With a bit of cooling and tuning, I'm sure you could push it to 1W. It also has stereo audio and works on lawmate frequencies:
http://www.fpvhobby.com/transmitter/12-2-55-volt-500mw-24ghz-video-transmitter.html

Now, I can't remember anymore if these will ship with SMA or RP-SMA, but the website says they are SMA so that would mean it's not too bad either. All in all I'd still go with lawmate, though, just for peace of mind. We have thoroughly tested these transmitters, though, and haven't found anything wrong with it.

[egosession]

I use those. I have em from bevrc, removed the psu, and now I using it as you would use a lawmate - TBS setup.

I like that it has stereo audio. The cooling looks mutch better done, than on the LM's. The heatsink is glued on with heattransferpaste, the copper heatsink inside too. Its also a bit bigger. Until now, I have reached 2km in heavy noise area with no problem.

I have done a quick TBS tuning. I killed the last two LM because of the full tuning. I guess I had to mutch heat on it when I soldered the copper heatsink to the pcb.

Trappy, what do you think about soldering the copper heatsink to the case, instead to the pcb? Like done here (http://www.webx.dk/rc/video-wireless/video.htm)

If you guys need more information about the skyRF, let me know. I got pictures from the pcb etc.

EDIT: Oh and its RP-SMA...

[luzaban]

Daniel Wee tested the skyrf module and said it has less drift than an untuned lawmate unit. So to me it looks like i need to buy a IRC transmitter, desolder the original module and solder an Skyrf module on it. Anyone willing to try it ?

[SENTRY]

Daniel Wee tested the skyrf module and said it has less drift than an untuned lawmate unit. So to me it looks like i need to buy a IRC transmitter, desolder the original module and solder an Skyrf module on it. Anyone willing to try it ?

What problem are/would be trying to solve with this effort? Has vTx drift forced you to turn around and land during a flight? Has it caused you to lose video? Do you have an antenna on teh ground tuned to a single specific frequency?

[luzaban]

i want to get rid of the 5v regulator for the 5v lawmate to use 12v only. However i will have then another voltage regulator on the module itself so it makes no big difference....

[egosession]

I use a TBS PSU, I know, they arent cheap, but its almost the heard of my plane. The ability to plug a second emergency batterie in it, the fact that it is noisefree, it supplies not only my vtx, but also the cam. Its a real plesure not to be worried about the psu anymore. One of the best thing TBS every did.

So then the skyRC modul is to prefer over the lm? Or are they other things, beside the rp-sma, witch would make a lm a better choice?

[Trappy]

Trappy, what do you think about soldering the copper heatsink to the case, instead to the pcb? Like done here (http://www.webx.dk/rc/video-wireless/video.htm)

well, it's more work than to transfer the heat back out to the case. But it would probably work a bit better, provided you have good contact to the PCB.


Daniel Wee tested the skyrf module and said it has less drift than an untuned lawmate unit. So to me it looks like i need to buy a IRC transmitter, desolder the original module and solder an Skyrf module on it. Anyone willing to try it ?
Why do you want to do that? that makes no sense, and the SkyRF module probably won't even fit the PCB (it's smaller than the IRC). You need to get a simple PSU and power it that way, the lawmate 5V would be pretty straightforward. Of course our PSU works too :) I'd still prefer the lawmates, just as a gut feeling, the fact that skyRF is RP-SMA is pretty disturbing.


What problem are/would be trying to solve with this effort? Has vTx drift forced you to turn around and land during a flight? Has it caused you to lose video? Do you have an antenna on teh ground tuned to a single specific frequency?
Range will be better.


I use a TBS PSU, I know, they arent cheap, but its almost the heard of my plane. The ability to plug a second emergency batterie in it, the fact that it is noisefree, it supplies not only my vtx, but also the cam. Its a real plesure not to be worried about the psu anymore. One of the best thing TBS every did.

So then the skyRC modul is to prefer over the lm? Or are they other things, beside the rp-sma, witch would make a lm a better choice?
Thanks egosession :) V3 is coming soon. It's going to be pretty sweet :P (don't bother asking, I won't spill the beans :D)

I'd prefer the lawmate over the skyRF. The lawmate can be tuned to about 700mW, the skyRF produces around 800mW. So the range benefit is gone. The fact that you need to change the RP-SMA to SMA alone is a pretty good deal-killer. Obviously stereo audio is pretty sweet, though, which is also why I use this module in my glider :)

[egosession]

Your are sutch e gheimniskrämmer! ;) Looking forward to the V3. I surprised that you guys found something to imrpove... what the heck could that be... mmhh *dreaming*

[LLD]

Recently my DAIWA 801-SII arrived and I was playing around with some different transmitters. I immediately identified a malfunctioning antenna on the LM which was not performing very well on the plane.

I have to say that I have more enthousiasm than knowledge but are doing my best ;-)

I compared a IRC 2.4G 500mw VTX to a LM and Foxtech (SKY-RF) variant.

Some interesting observations:

- only IRC was actually delivering the rated output power, the others were much higher
- IRC has an almost perfect SWR and very little sensitivity for different antenna's
- SKY-RF had the highest output, but also highest SWR and big differences between different antenna's of the same model
- LM was in between, with good SWR but quite some effect from the heat during longer tests

The SKY-RF has RP-SMA connector which is a bit of a pain. The input power is protected for reversal, the output power to camera has however no protection against shortcut as I experienced :-(

I have been using the all of above transmitters and feel that the IRC is the best quality product, but no channels outside WIFI. The Sky-RF has been doing quite well with both IRC and LM receivers and proved itself very stable with an IRC EZTracker.

The LM's have been a bit more troublesome. Struggling to get good image. One is doing very well, the other has been giving problems with range which I hope will be solved with a new antenna.

Please feel free to give any comments as I try to learn as much as I can.


Ro

[Outdoorz]

What exactly makes the foxtech not good?

[Trappy]

the fact that it's made in china ... :) and the RP-SMA plug. other than that, go for it.

[Outdoorz]

Ok, Well whats a good 2.4g tx that has channels outside of wifi? Thanks,

[Trappy]

the lawmates have the same channels as the foxtech.

[Outdoorz]

Ok, being that any system would be my first i am going to go with the foxtech due to the price.

[Trappy]

well, good luck finding antennas ... :)

[Outdoorz]

O!! Its the antenna connector thats not normal? I thought it was just the power connector!

[LLD]

Indeed the RP-SMA connector is a bit of a pain but for the rest no issues at all.

I am using this transmitter as the Foxtech variant with integrated PSU and the bare module from RF-SKY and both are performing perfectly.

So if you are looking for cheap alternative this will do.

By the way, normally antenna's are delivered with the transmitter and they are working just fine.

[Outdoorz]

Indeed the RP-SMA connector is a bit of a pain but for the rest no issues at all.

I am using this transmitter as the Foxtech variant with integrated PSU and the bare module from RF-SKY and both are performing perfectly.

So if you are looking for cheap alternative this will do

What will do?

[LLD]

The Foxtech VTX

[Outdoorz]

Ok, thanks

[Outdoorz]

http://www.foxtechfpv.com/foxtech-24g-500mw-txrx-with-integrated-regulator-board-and-mic-p-177.htmlIf i ever wanted to "upgrade" the antenna couldnt I get a rp-sma to sma adapter?

Also if you go this link

And go to the chart it says it has a sma connector.

[LLD]

nope, it is RP-SMA

You can use an adapter or order antenna's with RP-SMA. For me is no issue as I make my own anyway, using IBCrazy's tutorials.

[Outdoorz]

I just realized I could get a lawmate 2.4 500mw and lawmate reciever for $20 more. Is it actually worth it? I have read that the lawmates have heating problems and arent good while some say their the best. What do you guys think?

[Trappy]

I have run lawmate video transmitters in various conditions and never had an issue with heating. all of our long range records have been made with lawmate equipment.

[ssassen]

The Lawmate is a module, hence needs a power supply, wiring, etc. etc. The IRC is a self contained ready-to-use transmitter which just hooks straight up to your main battery and has a built in camera supply etc. They are *NOT* the same.

[Trappy]

he's comparing it to the SkyRF now, though. basically the SkyRF is a module too, they just copied the ImmersionRC PSU (I can't judge quality but price is usually a good indicator) and soldered it to the back of the SkyRF.

The lawmates do come with a power supply, but not with a camera supply.

[Pooch]

I just realized I could get a lawmate 2.4 500mw and lawmate reciever for $20 more. Is it actually worth it? I have read that the lawmates have heating problems and arent good while some say their the best. What do you guys think?

From my experience, the Immersion RC VTx I have (only 40mw) is a great unit - self contained PSU, clean transmission and aesthetically very professional looking.

I've had a couple of flights with the LawMate 500mw and it has been perfect as well - I'm sure some of that can be attributed to the TBS PSU powering it, but I've got no complaints. It's tiny, powerful, and has a number of different channels available... ;)

[JBeloncik]

I went back and forth on this a LOT! I am still not in a very good position to give you a clear answer, but I went with the IRC 500mW 2.4 for a few reasons:
1. Support of the product - I know if I have any problems, both Tim from RMRC and Sander from IRC will do whatever it takes to help me!
2. Support for pioneers! - For a few bucks more, I will gladly support people like Tim, Sander, IBCrazy, and others who are making this great hobby more accessible to those like me who are still trying to figure it all out!
3. Quality - I have never heard anything bad about the quality of IRC products. I can't speak for FoxTech or LM, but I can tell you this IRC unit looks and feels amazing.
4. Fatsharks - One thing that appeals to me is a minimal ground station setup. I might want to venture beyond a couple miles one of these years, but for now, I just want to fly! With my IRC vTx, I need nothing more than my Fatshark aviators for a ground station!

I'm sure they will all work reasonably well in the end, but you may need to tinker more with them or deal with issues like RP-SMA connectors, etc. To me, it was worth a few extra bucks to get something I knew was going to be SOLID!

I'm sure there are more pluses and minuses for all options, but thought I would chime in and let you know what I finally settled on after going through the exact same paces!

[Outdoorz]

I went back and forth on this a LOT! I am still not in a very good position to give you a clear answer, but I went with the IRC 500mW 2.4 for a few reasons:
1. Support of the product - I know if I have any problems, both Tim from RMRC and Sander from IRC will do whatever it takes to help me!
2. Support for pioneers! - For a few bucks more, I will gladly support people like Tim, Sander, IBCrazy, and others who are making this great hobby more accessible to those like me who are still trying to figure it all out!
3. Quality - I have never heard anything bad about the quality of IRC products. I can't speak for FoxTech or LM, but I can tell you this IRC unit looks and feels amazing.
4. Fatsharks - One thing that appeals to me is a minimal ground station setup. I might want to venture beyond a couple miles one of these years, but for now, I just want to fly! With my IRC vTx, I need nothing more than my Fatshark aviators for a ground station!

I'm sure they will all work reasonably well in the end, but you may need to tinker more with them or deal with issues like RP-SMA connectors, etc. To me, it was worth a few extra bucks to get something I knew was going to be SOLID!

I'm sure there are more pluses and minuses for all options, but thought I would chime in and let you know what I finally settled on after going through the exact same paces!

The only thing thats keeping me away from irc is the fact that there are no channels outside wifi.

[Outdoorz]

Are there any links or videos showing how to setup and wire a lawmate system?

[JBeloncik]

The only thing thats keeping me away from irc is the fact that there are no channels outside wifi.

Where do you live? If you are in the US, channel 8 (2510) is not a legal channel. Something to consider.

[Outdoorz]

Where do you live? If you are in the US, channel 8 (2510) is not a legal channel. Something to consider.

So thats minus 1 channel. You still have 7 vs 3. So wifi takes up the whole 2.4 frequency range.

[Pooch]

Where do you live? If you are in the US, channel 8 (2510) is not a legal channel. Something to consider.

According to one of my colleagues who used to be in the Airforce, it's the frequency of an old Russian radar, amongst other things.

:)

[JBeloncik]

Wifi channels pretty much cover from 2400 - 2480 mhz (in the US at least). I am pretty sure channel 8, which is 2510 is the only one outside of the Wifi band.
Legally sold LM units in the US may only have 1 or 2 channels! This is from RMRC website for the LM 500mW 2.4 vtx:


CH1 2410MHz

CH2 2430MHz

CH3 2450MHz

CH4 2470MHz
CH5 2370MHz
CH6 2390MHz

CH7 2490MHz
CH8 2510MHz

Systems shipped to U.S. addresses are locked to either Channel 1 (2410MHz) or Channel 2 (2430MHz). No Exceptions!

AFAIK, the FoxTech units ship with all channels available and it is left to the user to decide to play nice by the FCC or not.

[Outdoorz]

Its too hard to decide!!

[Trappy]

CH5 and 6 are also outside of the wifi band. Not sure if they are legal in the US, but in europe there are frequencies reserved for wireless A/V on CH 5 and 6

[JBeloncik]

I didn't dig down into the nitty gritty details, but from what I remember reading about this, there are a few other LM channels besides 1 and 2 which are legal in the US. But, apparently due to the way the dip switches work, allowing the end user to access these would then allow them to access some of the other non-legal channels. So, to avoid being fined, retailers are just locking them down to a specific channel.

[Outdoorz]

How hard is it to setup a lawmate tx? How do you power the camera? Can somebody give me links?
Also what are your opinions on 1.2g vs 2.4?

[JBeloncik]

How hard is it to setup a lawmate tx? How do you power the camera? Can somebody give me links?
Also what are your opinions on 1.2g vs 2.4?
http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?1513-Lawmate-2.4gHz-500mw-Tech

[Outdoorz]

http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?1513-Lawmate-2.4gHz-500mw-Tech

Thanks,

[Reverand Blue Chip]

I would answer your question with a question. If you are good at surface soldering - get the Lawmate 5v voltage reducer from NGHobbies. it addresses both the 5v needed for the LM and your choice of 5v or 12v for the camera.

[Outdoorz]

Ok I want to order my fpv equipment this weekend. The only problem is that I still dont know what to get. I have ruled out lawmate because of the price and it seems to be not noob friendly. Haha.. I contacted Tim at readymadrc and he told me to stay away from foxtech which was my choice intill I read his email. I would get an immersionrc tx and rx but the price is a little over what I want to pay. Bevrc's website is down and people tell me customer service doesnt exist with them. So now I am back where I started.

[theailer]

I have a suggestion for you. Either save up and buy the irc tx/rx later or buy foxtech now ;) it isnt much harder than that

[Reverand Blue Chip]

Buy on price.... buy twice.

Immersion has proven reliability and is top notch.

[Outdoorz]

Is this good or bad... 14dbi patch antenna
2.4ghz 500mw
video drops out at 1.7 miles
doesn't seem right

[jimmaplesong]

Outdoorz, you can have a lot of fun in 1.7 miles... but something is noisy or out of tune... If you get a 30dB attenuator on your tx antenna you can do static tests at shorter range. This is where things get interesting. Divide and conquer, try to find the next most significant source of noise... try disconnectig the rx and servos, see if that helps... try moving things closer together or further apart and see how much change there is. If you have a diversity immersion receiver and more than one antenna, try putting antenna A on receiver 1, and B on 2, then swap them and see if one antenna is consistently preferred by the diversity (the diversity will favor one rx with hysteresis, so it might be hard to tell.) But it might give you a feel for if one antenna is more effective than another. At one point I had a breakthrough because I was trying to use a cheap hobbyking tx for control, and it was killing my video. I didn't figure it out until I set up my ground station to record, then flew LOS from a location about 100 feet away.

Another thing to do is to ask Sander which antennas to buy. He has some favorites that really rock. In fact I'm curious too... Sander? Do you have a favorite 2.4GHz set of antennas?

[Reverand Blue Chip]

Is this good or bad... 14dbi patch antenna
2.4ghz 500mw
video drops out at 1.7 miles
doesn't seem right

You are correct - something is not right... HOWEVER - after testing on your plane... is there anything at 1.7miles away - like a tower - that may be the cause?

[SENTRY]

Is this good or bad... 14dbi patch antenna
2.4ghz 500mw
video drops out at 1.7 miles
doesn't seem right

* Please post a video.

* Please post a pic of how you have your antenna aimed

* I suggest using a 8dBi patch. When you can go 5 - 6 miles on it, THEN upgrade to the 14dBi patch.

read this: http://fpvlab.com/forums/showthread.php?474-ANTENNA-AIMING&

[Outdoorz]

This did not happen to me but a boy on youtube. I was researching a tx and his video came up. He lost video at 1.7miles with a 8dbi patch. I put 14dbi in the last post. Heres the link http://www.youtube.com/user/rctestflight?ob=0#p/search/0/Rja4e7BKOys skip to 2:40

[amadeus]

Hey i have an foxtech 2.4g 500mw TX.
first the picture is perfect, sharp, no blurr.
than after serveral minutes image gets more blury, and colors get noisy! red cast.
after like 30min the picture is only hardly visible.

what could that be?

[noriega]

tx get's too hot most probably

[amadeus]

ha thats waht i thought too, but it was the RX what was broken.
tryed a lawmate rx and everything is perfect :)

foxtech rx -> junk.

[Scotttu]

Sooooooooooo

I just got an order kicked back from Urbandrones, Lawmates are getting VERY difficult to find these days.

I know Sassen is proud of the work he does, everyone here says it's a good thing - Can I get a standard receiver for it if I make this leap? I've seen the diversity setups but I don't want that at this point - I just want a single receiver...........

I basically want to replace my Lawmate fleet, what's left after smoking 3 of them, and jump........

[ssassen]

Working on it, hopefully be ready for beta testing soon, can I send you a set to try Scott?

[Scotttu]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!

[Zeeflyboy]

What is soon lol...

I just want to be able to buy some lovely cool running efficient 2.4Ghz IMRC vTX's and NexwaveRF based 2400 Duo. Will I be able to do that before the summer?

[terabyte]

you can get lawmate at http://www.dronesvision.com/
I got a few 2.4 tx and both worked perfectly. going to order a 1.2 soon.

[Scotttu]

you can get lawmate at http://www.dronesvision.com/
I got a few 2.4 tx and both worked perfectly. going to order a 1.2 soon.

Not anymore, they refunded my money and cancelled my order.

DearScott Turchin,

UrbanDrones just sent you a full refund of $151.69 USD for your purchase.
If you have any questions about this refund, please contact Urban Drones.
The refund will go to your PayPal account.
To see all the transaction details, please log into your PayPal account. It maytake a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

Invoice Number: OUT OF STOCK REFUND

I'm tired of lawmates being so fragile, land in a tree, rough crash......overheating issues.

I'm onboard with moving to Immersion at this point, reliability is the key.
I lost my Zephyr due to a Lawmate just going out.....half a mile away, into a cow.

It's time to make the move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTJC3dcQzS8

[terabyte]

Different store bud. UrbanDrones is in Florida and DroneVision is in Taiwan.

[pogeybait]

+1 on dronesvision. I ordered 5 of the LM 2.4 GHz recently. They arrived "unadulterated." Shipping time was about 1 week.

[rwijnhov]

Sander,

I want to beta test too :)

[Scotttu]

Doh!

Well my multi-rotors I usually run the 200mw on, they don't go far enough to need more but currently two of my 500mw are on them.

Sweet, but still plan to make the leap to immersion.

[Scotttu]

Here's another reason I'm switching from Lawmate.

Brand new Lawmate, maybe 2-3 uses out of it.

I'ts the VTX, I saw this before, no carrier, nothing, BAM off/on again - I'd hate to be flying over cows again and have this happen.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4-RAKWijMQ

[sircana]

Working on it, hopefully be ready for beta testing soon, can I send you a set to try Scott?

You know I would kill for one... I am finishing the design of a 3D printed plane. I really want to design the main fuselage to accept one of yours, and not one of these ugly unreliable Lawmates without pre-de-emphasis.

So, please let me know what you want me to do to get one...;)

[WildWill]

Haha Scott you lucky bastard!! Send me one too!! I'll beta test the hell out of that son of a gun!

[Scotttu]

Haha Scott you lucky bastard!! Send me one too!! I'll beta test the hell out of that son of a gun!


Haven't heard from him, sent him an addy though! I'd be happy to put it through the ringer!