Ritewing Zephyr FPV Build Manual

[brosius85]

dang that sucks. . . i would avoid cutting the prop. you dont want to weaken that. i would prefer to file the aluminium away to allow more clearance. whatever way you go im sure it will be fine

[timnilson]

Ye, i understand that , but i can't add one more prop stop from another side because spinner weld on to the hub. But i can cut off some part of prop. Like this 1601
that allow prop go straight back a little more.

Don't shave the prop hinge... that's not a place where you want to remove material. Take the spinner off and put a prop stop on the other side -- take a look at the video above. The spinner has no value as you're using a pusher set up. The fpvmanuals prop stop is made of a soft delrin so that it does not obstruct the prop opening or closing. Using a stiff material that is pressed on the prop hinge is going to get in the way of easily opening/closing the prop. Opening is not such an issue due to the force of the motor, but closing will be impossible as the wind resistance is not strong enough. You may as well use a non-folding prop.

[Molot]

Flight some at weekends , without cam RTH on board , some tech video http://www.vimeo.com/25634082
Forget to set motor brake.
I'd like how is it fly , very stable , very strong wing.
Lost signal at the end and wing fall down from ~ 20m, almost no damage , just at one place need to fix lam. Happen cause were using stock multiplex RX . At next time just long range.
Going to set RTH , stabbilization and test at next weekends.

[adamchicago]

I guess I never realized how much darn yaw there is on Zephyrs...ugh! It's not that it really effects the flying as much as it's annoying on the video end. Does anyone have a good tested solution for this?

If not, I'm going to test adding two 12inch booms out the back of the Zephyr with vertical stabilizer fins attached. They'll have hinges so they can fold up when hitting the ground on landing and for easy transport.

[brosius85]

if you get yaw you are going too slow :D

bigger winglets will make it more suseptible to cross winds i think - not less. they will also upset the cg i would guess.

[egosession]

I got a question about the pushrods on the zeph (TBS) - I did some research and found out that a threaded carbon tube with clevis on both ends is the way to go. Thats seems to be the way how TBS does it too. Chris from ritewing says good things about the 2-56 golden rods though.

My actuall problem is, that when we're not in a right angle to the evelons with the pushrod (and thats the matter with the zephs), it needs to move to the side a bit. While goldn rods can flex, carbon tubes not. A solution could be, to put a ball link at the controlhornend of the carbon pushrod. Or is this side moving/ flex ability not needed?

Do I have to cover the carbon pushrods with a plastiktube? Because my servos are at the LE and covered. That gives 230mm pushrod length and about 160 throught the foam. Could moving carbon on EPP be a problem?


At the end an idea I gathered while searching the net:

To give more ridigy to the goldenrods, glue (CA) a carbon rod into the inner tube (Yellow/white) of the goldenrods.

[brosius85]

carbon on foam is not a problem. if you have the servo and pushrod at 90deg. to the control surface it will move smoother. the longer the pushrod the less flex (at point of entry to foam) there will be. i have always maintained that a steel pushrod soldered on to the clevis will last alot more abuse than carbon or plastic. i realise the current TBS zephs use goldn rod but if you look at the build pics of the ultimate build you will see meatal pushrods. http://www.team-blacksheep.com/article/page:15

i personally use metal pushrods with soldered on clevis, and have no issue with unwanted flex, and have no fear of the join ever letting go.

its not like a control link to a wheel on a car- a slight flex under immense stress does not nessesarily mean unresponsive impesise control.

you want the plane to be able to take a hit- be it a tree or whatever, and not let go. carbon will be the first thing to snap i would suggest

[adamchicago]

Here's some fast and low cruizin' with the Zeph 58"


http://www.vimeo.com/25699816


(http://www.vimeo.com/25699816)

[adamchicago]

"slow" ...hardly;)

Actually to be a little clearer, I'm thinking of putting the fins on rods just on either side of the prop cut-out so they're as centered as possible...because they're out - behind the zeph and centered they should point the zeph forward like an arrow reducing yaw...or it will cause a crash;) ...either way I'll find out and post!

Frankly I hate adding anything like that to the zeph because it is way more cool strictly as a flying wing, but have to give this a shot;)


if you get yaw you are going too slow :D

bigger winglets will make it more suseptible to cross winds i think - not less. they will also upset the cg i would guess.

[HIGHLANDER]

Came across this article. Thought you all might like it. Byong!!!
http://www.pitchengine.com/pitch/156613/

[mike20sm]

"slow" ...hardly;)

Actually to be a little clearer, I'm thinking of putting the fins on rods just on either side of the prop cut-out so they're as centered as possible...because they're out - behind the zeph and centered they should point the zeph forward like an arrow reducing yaw...or it will cause a crash;) ...either way I'll find out and post!

Frankly I hate adding anything like that to the zeph because it is way more cool strictly as a flying wing, but have to give this a shot;)

I think your idea will work. You could also try two rods coming to a point right at the center line and using one fin.

[Dallibab]

A quick one for you zephyr guys

Built my 66" wing tbs style boxes for batts and Velcro so keep them in place.
Has been fine till today did. Dive from 500 m half way down 120 mph nose started flapping and batts ejected leaving no power or vid.

All good a couple of mins later it came bobbing into view and landed fine.
Bats were quite a distance and puffed and warped
On impact.

The question is is Velcro enough for you guys? What else do you use?
I use too much tPe as it is and want somtijng a bit more permanent.

Thanks

John

[brosius85]

my batts are under coreflute doors with magnetic latches and then velcro'd in place. they have never moved :D

in this vid at around 0:20 you can see what i mean- (the velcro is not visible in this shot)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsA4Qpwglvs

[Dallibab]

I'll did them a bit deeper and give it a go.
Just dived today and got some major wobble and it flipped em out.
Never happened on my 54" wing but batts are 3s and not so heavy

[Molot]

Set up everything , first zephyr FPV flight.
Got problems with launch , especially solo style :S
got another motor with 1800 kv , but afraid for folding prop .... shall i use nonfolding prop ? or use 9*7 , 9*6 instead of 10*8 which i use now ?
http://vimeo.com/25963422

[timnilson]

Set up everything , first zephyr FPV flight.
Got problems with launch , especially solo style :S
got another motor with 1800 kv , but afraid for folding prop .... shall i use nonfolding prop ? or use 9*7 , 9*6 instead of 10*8 which i use now ?
http://vimeo.com/25963422

For everyone that has trouble launching their Zephyr... I've cracked that nut for good. It requires a piece of gear, but that's what FPV is all about! Read and watch my first episode of "assisted fpv" and see how I am using a Ruby from uThere to auto launch a Zephyr without fail... In the video I do it 5 times in a row... I could have done it a 100 times. Also, the story has a $50 discount code you can use to buy your own Ruby!

http://www.fpvmanuals.com/2011/07/05/assisted-fpv-launching-a-fpv-zephyr/

[adamchicago]

Whew! ...back from chopping my index finger with the Zeph prop...not fun! Several stitches and a finger brace later I can still move it and have feeling in it so I count myself blessed:)

I had set the Zeph down on the armrest of my chair after a flight with it still fully powered up in order to make some EPA adjustments and went to grab the Tx which was below on the seat and accidentally nudged the throttle:( Miraculously there was very little pain even though it was deep, 2 inches long and with lots coming out of it:(

While this wasn't a launch injury it underscores the importance prop safety. Please be sure to keep your hands away from the prop when your plane is powered up and be VERY sure of your launch technique if you're throwing from the motor mount.

I hope to be back flying as soon as I get the stitches out and brace off next week:)

[brosius85]

ouch! 2 inches long :O thats nearly the whole thing!!

[adamchicago]

well it was basically the top half that was sliced...glad the bottom half is still there;)


ouch! 2 inches long :O thats nearly the whole thing!!

[jimmaplesong]

Adam, I'm glad you'll be in the air again so soon. That sounds painful!

A few weeks ago scared myself. I was waiting for GPS lock, my Zephyr was on top of a plastic box that was full of my field supplies. I sat down on the ground with my TX dangling on my neckstrap. The TX rotated counter clockwise, and my oversized belly hit the throttle. Scared the **** out of me. My first instinct was to unplug the battery on the Zephyr, and then I realized I had two batteries, and it was going to take too long to unplug both. Meanwhile my tote is exploding in front of me, with bits of plastic flying away from it. I finally realized I should just pull the throttle down on the TX... probably a good long two seconds elapsed total.

I've got a whole new respect for those carbon fiber blades now.

1846

[adamchicago]

Glad you're ok too! Yep I can imagine with all of that plastic shrapnel flying around it could be distracting! Well I guess it's good that we get these wake up calls to keep us from any serious damage...any serious self damage;)

[Dallibab]

Hi Guys I rebuilt my 3s zeph into a 4s

On my 66" wing I have the hack a30 10l 70 amp hacker esc and 2 x 3300 nano techs. This pulls about 50 amps wot with a 10 x 6 prop.

On the 54" i just rebuilt I am using the same 3300 batteries but went with a cheaper Motor a purple power Pro 3542 1250kv, Flys great but

The 1250 spins faster than the hacker but with the 10 x 6 prop at wot pulls 70 amps and with a 9 x 6 still pulls 60. but after about half to 3/4 increasing throttle does nothing speed wise just makes more noise.

Can someone recommend a prop size to try or should I get a lower kv motor ? the motor is spinning faster but not making much difference to top end.

THanks

John.

[adamchicago]

I ran into the same thing with my 58in zeph where it was over amping with only a 9x6 graupner cam, so I switched to a 9x5 aeronaut cam and the amps came down from the uppers 60's /lower 70's amps to the 50's max;) ...the original setup burned my 60amp eflite ESC so I moved up to an 80 just to be sure. I'm using a Scorpion 3020 1110 v2 and 2x 2450's, 3300's and 3600's all 4S. Yep these varied batt sizes move the CG around a bit but it still flys well with all 3 sets so all is good.

[Dallibab]

Thanks Adam
I found a motor / prop calculator and after playing around found that the 9x5 should be the best for what I have as well so will give it a go.

What kind of speeds are you getting ? How many amps when cruising?
I just assumed that as my new motor spins faster than the hacker it would just fly that bit faster that's why I chose the 1250 kv over the 1100 but not that simple it seems.

Thanks

John

[adamchicago]

I am by far not the expert on this but from what I know a higher KV motor will make your plane fly faster than a low KV motor provided the power system is right for the plane and this is why most full scale planes have variable pitch props. When taking off and needing more power, full scale planes need more pitch at a lower RPM for greater torque/power, but when they're up at cruising speed they need less of a pitch angle but greater RPM for additional speed. This is the exact same concept as gears on a bicycle or car. When you're cruising your bicycle up hill you want really low gear with slow and strong pumps of the peddle, but when cruising at full speed you use a higher gear with much slower pedal strides but probably equal power.

FYI the second digit in the prop size is the pitch angle, so a 9x7 prop is better for higher thrust with less speed versus a 9x4 which is better for less thrust but greater speed. So a 9x7 will be harder to launch but will have a higher top end speed while a 9x4 will provide almost vertical launches but won't go as fast.

[adamchicago]

At launch I am at full power with amps in the 50's, then while light-cruising I'm at about 40-50mph and in the 14-20amp range and when fast-cruising or proximity flying I'm at about 60-70mph and in the 20-30amp range.


Thanks Adam
I found a motor / prop calculator and after playing around found that the 9x5 should be the best for what I have as well so will give it a go.

What kind of speeds are you getting ? How many amps when cruising?
I just assumed that as my new motor spins faster than the hacker it would just fly that bit faster that's why I chose the 1250 kv over the 1100 but not that simple it seems.

Thanks

John

[Dallibab]

Cheers dude

[brosius85]

to clarify - a 9x4 against a 9x7

the 9x7 will be "stalled" at takeoff more than the 9x4. when you look at your plane the angle of attack (of wings) when flying efficiently will be something like 5 degrees (probably) if your angle of attack is 20degrees the wings dont work well at all (stall) the wings attached to the motor (the PROP :D) should be at a similar angle of attack when flying eficiently. 5 degrees or whatever. a 9x7 needs to move 7 inches forward for every RPM for perfect eficiency. if you launch at 10 or 15 thousand RPM the prop will be seriously stalled, over amping, and making little thrust.

a 9x4 will be ALOT less stalled. the plane will make efficient thrust alot sooner, but will have alot less capacity for airspeed. you could put the 9x4 on a higher KV motor, because the amps will be so much lower. this could get you the speed back you lost when going from 9x7 to 9x4, but higher rpm cause more wear and tear, and you will lose props when you take them past the recommended maximum rpm. also you will make the ESC work harder, and 20 to 30'000 rpm is damn loud!!!

[M'ck'y]

How heavy is too heavy for a 60" zephyr ? I think I have the heaviest out there :( 3kg on the old bathroom scale. Im buying a kitchen scale soon just to weigh my wing lol.

[adamchicago]

I'm flying my 60in Zephyr at about 3.4kgs+ depending on the battery combo I use. It flies great!


How heavy is too heavy for a 60" zephyr ? I think I have the heaviest out there :( 3kg on the old bathroom scale. Im buying a kitchen scale soon just to weigh my wing lol.

[M'ck'y]

this is what i want to hear! Where is your build thread?

[imdone]

I just recieved my folding props and spinners, 10x6 for regular flights and 10x7 for High altitude flights... I went with the 5 mm for a "standard" mount. How much more effecient and quiter is mounting the motor hanging off the back of the motor mount?

[Trappy]

the heavier you build your Zephyr, the less agile it becomes. that's about the only problem with weight.

[adamchicago]

Awesome looking new FPV camera!

I currently have the Pixim DX201 which is awesome but out of stock in most FPV stores, so after a little research I learned Pixim has a new chip (Seawolf) and cameras that just haven't hit the FPV stores yet...like this one!! And while the DX201 is 540TVL this newer version is 690TVL!! ...and in the description it says it's good for FPV!

Only $90!

http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/690TVL-HD-Ultra-WDR-Pixim-SEAWOLF-Sensor-Chip-2.8mm-Lens-Mini-Camera.html

[cliffkot]

Awesome looking new FPV camera!

I currently have the Pixim DX201 which is awesome but out of stock in most FPV stores, so after a little research I learned Pixim has a new chip (Seawolf) and cameras that just haven't hit the FPV stores yet...like this one!! And while the DX201 is 540TVL this newer version is 690TVL!! ...and in the description it says it's good for FPV!

Only $90!

http://www.securitycamera2000.com/products/690TVL-HD-Ultra-WDR-Pixim-SEAWOLF-Sensor-Chip-2.8mm-Lens-Mini-Camera.html

Unfortunately I think this is one of the cameras which lacks manual white balance which means that the color keeps changing as you point around. I find this very annoying. But be patient. One should be out shortly.

Last year I screwed myself by getting a 540 WDR camera that was hot off the press. It also lacked that manual balance setting. At the time I didn't know the difference as I was new to the game, and with my television broadcast backround just assumed that every TV camera would have a manual setting because no one in their right mind would design a camera without it. Dumb assumption! About a month later a very similar camera was offered by Security Cam2000 that had all the features I was looking for.

Sooner or later a 690 Pixim camera will be available that allows you to make all the manual color adjustments you want. I would expect it before too long.

Cliff

[adamchicago]

These FPV sample videos look pretty good to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klm-yGUufKQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfI1fImESI&feature=related


Unfortunately I think this is one of the cameras which lacks manual white balance which means that the color keeps changing as you point around. I find this very annoying. But be patient. One should be out shortly.

Last year I screwed myself by getting a 540 WDR camera that was hot off the press. It also lacked that manual balance setting. At the time I didn't know the difference as I was new to the game, and with my television broadcast backround just assumed that every TV camera would have a manual setting because no one in their right mind would design a camera without it. Dumb assumption! About a month later a very similar camera was offered by Security Cam2000 that had all the features I was looking for.

Sooner or later a 690 Pixim camera will be available that allows you to make all the manual color adjustments you want. I would expect it before too long.

Cliff

[imdone]

Was just laying out my gear before I start my build. one question I have is with my turnstile placement. does any one see any problem with it being so close to the center? My plan is to embed it under the plane. I would mount it further out on the wing but it would stick out from the plane which doesnt make me happy.

Also, any problem with the cloverleaf being on the wing tip? I plan on embedding it as deep as it will go into the wing.
2005

[melvinudall]

I'm flying my 60in Zephyr at about 3.4kgs+ depending on the battery combo I use. It flies great!

Adam,

I'd like to know what you have done to make it 3.4kg. May I have a link to where you've posted your set up? I'm guessing mine will be pushing the same weight unless I change payload.

Mel

[adamchicago]

I have my VTx antenna on the wingtip on both of my FPV planes...that is a recommended location. However the turnstyle I can't help you with...try IBCrazy's turnstyle thread, or send him an RCGroups message and I'm sure you'll get an answer there;)

[adamchicago]

Sorry I've been lazy and don't have a build thread/profile:( However to begin with it's loaded with heavy equipment: (58in Zephyr)

- 2x3600 4S main batts plus an 1800 3S aux-video batt (also fly 2x3300 and 2x2450's)
- 80 amp eFlite ESC
- Full OSD (ET Pro with airspeed)
- GoPro (no case)
- DX201 FPV cam (no case) and VTx
- Scorpion 3020 1110v2 motor with 9x5 Aeronaut cam prop (should have gone with the 890kv instead of 1110kv...ugh)

Then because I accidentally cut too much foam out for the compartments I've had to add extra support spars including full-wing wooden spars on the LE & TE and around the center portion...and the weight of all of the glue that goes with that. Then I was lazy and basically wrapped the thing in about a whole roll of fiber tape instead of laminating it and then added a center skid underneath (ie Beauregard build).

So that pretty much sums up the weight!

I highly recommend copious low end power with your motor/prop setup for easy launches;) The Scorpion 3020 890v2 would be a great motor and a 9x6 or bigger prop, but be careful of the amps because they seem to be higher than expected...my setup uses about 52 amps on launch with a 9x5 cam Aeronaut, but I've already burned out a 60amp eFlite ESC using a 9x6 graupner cam.


Adam,

I'd like to know what you have done to make it 3.4kg. May I have a link to where you've posted your set up? I'm guessing mine will be pushing the same weight unless I change payload.

Mel

[M'ck'y]

omg 3.4kg on a 54" Z How do you not stall this airframe? mine is a 60" and finished at 2.6KG flying weight and ritewing reckons he's never seen anything that heavy before. I stalled twice in the 2 flights I made, I believe it was a CG problem. I have flown wings before, Maybe I should keep trying.

[brosius85]

CG is pretty much the defining factor on how flying wings handle. as there is no nose or tail, getting the cg wrong can make it unbeleivably sensitive or unbeleivably insensitive to elevator. the only problem with excess weight is you will have a hard time lauching it and the stall speed will be higher. if you want to fly smoother weight will help you.

murdo on RCG has a stryker going 200mph and it weighs 3kg! it lauches with a bungee and lands at 70mph but it does fly! :D i would guess a stryker has half the wing area of a zephyr. he is running it at over 5000 watts though lol

[adamchicago]

It flies great at 3.4kgs! ...launches used to be no problem but now that I've tethered my Tx radio to the Scherrer LR Tx/antenna on a tripod via a 30ft PPM cable I don't have the freedom to give the Zeph a good running launch, so far causing one missed launch and several struggling launches, so I'm going to up the Zeph's weight 40gs more! ...that is with a stronger motor;)

I have had no problems with stalls or really anything as a result of weight. Chris G told me the CG is between 10.25-10.50in from the nose on the 58in Zeph. Since I've trimmed the nose back via Beauregard build, I had to measure back from a theoretical nose using a straight edge that I ran along the LE out to where the nose is supposed to be;) However, I use 3 sets of main batts with VARIED weights and still have not had a problem with the CG/stalls etc (All 4S's: 2x2450's, 2x3300's, 2x3600's).

Some things you may want to check if you're stalling:
- Double check your CG and get that down solid...per above measurements
- Be sure you're motor has enough overall power...mine has about 75% thrust to weight ratio (ie 2600gs of thrust for a 3400gs of weight).
- Be sure to have enough low end torque...ie lower KV motor (on a heavier build, I'd say keep it below 1000KV)
- Be sure your prop provides the most power for your setup...I'm getting about 52amps out of a max of 60amps on launch and cruising in the 18-26amp range

Good luck...and share some videos:)


omg 3.4kg on a 54" Z How do you not stall this airframe? mine is a 60" and finished at 2.6KG flying weight and ritewing reckons he's never seen anything that heavy before. I stalled twice in the 2 flights I made, I believe it was a CG problem. I have flown wings before, Maybe I should keep trying.

[imdone]

Okay parts are gathered... Ready to start the build.http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

What is the best technique to mount the motor??
should I go about it like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGHK7xfjVYw&feature=channel_video_title

[Trappy]

yeah that way of mounting the motor is fine

[egosession]

I have a hart time to decide on how to cut the battery bays. On the 48" version, the wings are more swept ( ca. 3° more) than on the 54" version. This means, from the cg point of view, the battery bays are almost at the same position,ether in a V bay position or in a middle bay position.

Since my two 3s 2200mah batterys are 25mm deep, I got in both situations only 5 - 10mm bottom foam left. I search the net, read all the manuals, made an argument list and draw both situations on cad - now I would be very thankfull for your quick opinion and/or expierence!

Maybe this could finally helps to decide and I could stop hitting my head for sutch a simpel decision.

[Trappy]

V is better for FPV, it stabilizes the wing a bit. and it spreads the impact zone more.

[egosession]

Thats something I thought about too, but I wasnt sure, if thats true.

Thanks, I gues the arguments for V bays beats the middle bays. Finally I can start the build.

[adamchicago]

Ok I discovered I could push the prop through on Scorpion's heli series motors to use instead of the standard S series for airplanes and this is good because the new SII version cost $124 vs the old HK version of the same motor was only $65!!! :) Scorpion even had a notch on the other end of the shaft on the HK for the collar...and that's why I love Scorpion! So now I'll have about 2600gs of thrust on a 3.4kg Zephyr which will mean easier launches and near vertical climb outs:)

[egosession]

Merci for helping me over the decision ;) I final could start to start

Some pics:

2110 2109

2112 2111
2113 2114

Cheers!

[Dallibab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDPuty7EB1s

Got a quick couple of flights today at RCmonsters Flying field. this was with my 66" zephyr. Thanks again !

If you guys look at the vid (sorry no editing) when diving fast or generally going full out the front flaps up and down a bit, my 54" wing doesnt do this at all but its a fair bit stiffer.
Do you think this is cause the wing needs more bracing ? or could anything else be causing it.? I find that the wings must be flexing because sometime the laminate at the end of the wings has come away a bit and needs ironing on again.
I noticed on Beuregards build he put some more rods on to to strenghten things.

Any Suggestions welcome.

Sorry just realised cant view cause of music , will reload to vimeo. then post link..

[Dallibab]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDPuty7EB1s

Got a quick couple of flights today at RCmonsters Flying field. this was with my 66" zephyr. Thanks again !

If you guys look at the vid (sorry no editing) when diving fast or generally going full out the front flaps up and down a bit, my 54" wing doesnt do this at all but its a fair bit stiffer.
Do you think this is cause the wing needs more bracing ? or could anything else be causing it.? I find that the wings must be flexing because sometime the laminate at the end of the wings has come away a bit and needs ironing on again.
I noticed on Beuregards build he put some more rods on to to strenghten things.

Was quite windy out but shouldnt flap like that..

Any Suggestions welcome.

Sorry just realised cant view cause of music , will reload to vimeo. then post link..

http://vimeo.com/26837058 vimeo link...

[adamchicago]

Great video and flight!!!! Let's see some more:)


http://vimeo.com/26837058 vimeo link...

[M'ck'y]

great stuff.. man i want my zephyr now!

[Ian Davidson]

Can I ask, does everyone laminate their flying wing? Is it essential?

I've never laminated anything in my life and so along with not fully understanding the process and thus not wanting to do a bad job, I'm just wondering how important the lamination is? I appreciate the need to reinforce the leading-edge and other exposed edges with glass-fiber tape, but no one laminates an EasyStar or Skywalker, so why a flying wing? Apologies if this is a dumb question. :confused:

My wing so far...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/267254/Forums/MEGAMANTA.JPG

[brosius85]

lamination adds INSANE ammounts of surface tention + strength. Without lam the wing will be all squishy, after lam the firmness will be through the roof. other foamies use different grades of foam, mostly stiffer stuff, but that makes them more fragile. using the EPP ck puts in riteings they are really durable, but more on the squishy side. the lam takes them from being like a big sponge to being a reinforced sponge. able to take masses of abuse but with adequete rigidity.

there are "unlaminated" builds- but they are made for ULTRA light weight power systems. think floating around at walking pace indoors. not high powered proximity FPV :D

[Danub]

The Laminating process is not that hard. It is kind of like monokote but easier I think. A bit of advice is put the wing in the wingbeds with weights so the laminate doesn't warp the wing when cooling after ironing.

[Ian Davidson]

Many thanks for the feedback!

I've never built or flown a flying-wing before and so I'm in no real position to query what you say, but my wing is already very rigid thanks to the carbon-fibre 'A' frame I've added. I can appreciate lamination will add further rigidity still, but it's now already far more rigid than any of my other FPV foamies?

I have a 2Kg 2.5M foam glider which didn't require lamenting to make it rigid and I can't imagine my Zephyr will ever top 80 MPH and so other than the vulnerable leading edges (which definitely need attention), I’m still slightly perplexed...

I know this might be controversial, but I'm just wondering if people laminate simply because "that's what's always been done" ? :confused:

[jimmaplesong]

Lamination is a fairly new thing for ritewings... Just a few years ago, layers of henry's roof repair fiberglass was the way to go. The wing will probably fly naked, but not last nearly as long. The foam will crack on impact without a layer to distribute the load a bit.

[Mark Hitchman]

I laminated mine, put 3mm spars 2' back from the leading edge top and bottom as well as 3mm spars approx in the middle plus the big spars that go in the holes through the center of the wing. Mine still oscillates at 120km/hr (60mph)
I crashed straight into the ground at half throttle and did no damage to the wing, you really need the laminate or the riteweave.

Mark

[Ian Davidson]

Right, thanks guys, point taken. It looks like I need to face my demons and swot up on this whole laminating malarkey! :D

[brosius85]

laminating is easy. dont worry about getting it perfect if you dont want to. look at trappys build!

http://www.team-blacksheep.com/article/page:15

wrinkles dont slow you down. and having a spotless plane might discourage you from flying closer to the ground!!!

if you want to avoid warping the wing, wingbeds wont help you. the strength of the lam will warp the wing. you need to iron it on the LOWEST temp you can, or at a high temp REALLY SLOWLY!!!! i have one wing warped over an inch, the next wing dead straight. the trick is dont let too much get hot at once. cool it as you go with a wet rag if necessary.

i start at the winglet side, with a normal clothes iron on as high as it can go :D go from the centre and along towards the center, and steadily out to the leading and trailing edges as you go along. if a patch bigger than your hand is hot at a time, you will warp the wing.

you are heating it up and stretching it as you heat it, as it cools it shrinks. heat up the whole side at once putting it down, and it will warp like a BITCH once its cooled :D

hope this is making sense.

[jimmaplesong]

The first time I laminated, I did it in five panels, one center, then two out each wing. This is easier, since you're working with less material at a time... and the extra seams never gave me any trouble. (overlap by nearly a cm.)

The last time I laminated, I did it in two panels, one for each wing, and it went on fine. I started at the center of the root cord, and worked out the middle of the wing toward the winglet, going about 6 - 8 inches down the wing, then using the iron from the center to the leading edge, and center to trailing edge until I nearly caught up with the toward-the-winglet area. Then extend the center toward the winglet 6-8 inches more, then push the laminate down as you work toward the leading and trailing edges again. Do the 'flat' parts first, then finish up and over the leading edge and trailing edge only once the whole length of the wing is covered. The TBS Zephyr video is the only video I've seen that actually shows part of the process. Chris Klick describes the process, and shows how he makes sure the iron is the right temperature with an infrared thermometer, but he never actually demonstrated the method that I've seen.

[egosession]

I discovered that there exists two version of 2.4ghz 500mw lawmate transmitters:

1 Lawmate know from TBS (http://www.readymaderc.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=75&products_id=450&zenid=ho9nrm7l8inipcjg9l10dvnhf5):

2186



2 Lawmate know with PSU from BEVRC (http://www.fpvhobby.com/transmitter/12-2-55-volt-500mw-24ghz-video-transmitter.html)

2187

2188

It would be intressting to know, if they performe diffrent. If you guys are intressted, I opend both and could post some pics. I cant test them, both are damaged though. One of the biggest visual diffrents seems to be that the second lawmate TX is better secured against heat than the normal Lawmate.

If someone knows, what the cables brown ch1 - ch3 (last picture) means, let me know. I probably going to use the second one. I got an other PSU lawmate TX (http://www.bevrc.com/bev-24g-500mw-transmitter-for-fpv-p-43.html) and I will unsolder it from the PSU board. There is a TBS PSU waiting for me ;)

[Ian Davidson]

Thanks again guys for all the pointers on laminating! :cool:

[egosession]

I m doing some wiring diagramms for FPVMANUALS.COM - as this regards the Zephyr build, I thought its best to post it in here to see if its usefull and readable.

2224

Cheers

[adamchicago]

While I totally believe in laminating for all the said reasons, I used copious amounts of fiber tape instead and my Zephyr flys great! However, in the off season I plan to strip the tape off and laminate over the winter;)

So if you want a super quick build and fly, fiber tape is your answer, or if you want it right, regardless of pain, laminating first is the way to go:)

FYI I've been told fiber tape doesn't hold up well under repetitive prolonged exposure to sunlight, however my Zeph has held up pretty well over approximately 24 straight hours of direct sunlight in 80-90F temps;)



Can I ask, does everyone laminate their flying wing? Is it essential?

I've never laminated anything in my life and so along with not fully understanding the process and thus not wanting to do a bad job, I'm just wondering how important the lamination is? I appreciate the need to reinforce the leading-edge and other exposed edges with glass-fiber tape, but no one laminates an EasyStar or Skywalker, so why a flying wing? Apologies if this is a dumb question. :confused:

My wing so far...

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/267254/Forums/MEGAMANTA.JPG

[adamchicago]

The Zephyr is a plane which is FPV and RC gear neutral, so are you sure want to include EZOSD in the manual for it?

FYI for those who would like gyro based stabilization, true airspeed, antenna tracking, and do not want to deal with a PSU go with Eagle Tree;)

[brosius85]

and how much weight did all that tape add.... :D:D:D lol

[adamchicago]

EagleTree equipment is very light maybe 20gs vs EZOSD is 10gs...that's like the difference of adding a penny to your plane.

Copious amounts of tape on the other hand...;)

[timnilson]

The Zephyr is a plane which is FPV and RC gear neutral, so are you sure want to include EZOSD in the manual for it?

FYI for those who would like gyro based stabilization, true airspeed, antenna tracking, and do not want to deal with a PSU go with Eagle Tree;)

Adam -- ImmersionRC is a partner of mine and supplies me with equipment and lots of support. I personally fly with an EzOSD and know that it works well. I have no problem with recommending it to folks getting into FPV. However, I am sure there are many other OSD products that would work also -- but, I personally never used an EagleTree so can't comment on that particular piece of equipment.

[KMart]

http://www.vimeo.com/27032596

[Ian Davidson]

http://www.vimeo.com/27032596

Ha! VERY nice! :)

[imdone]

cut my prop cutout a little to big.

2277
anyone see this being a bad problem?

[brosius85]

no problem.

the bigger the distance to the propellor the quieter she will fly.
mine is alot bigger thn yours and flies fine
pics of it at the bottom of this page http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=684818&page=686

[adamchicago]

(re: "498 feet" video) Loved the dive-down...how fast were you going?

[adamchicago]

Can someone explain how to get the random bumps and lateral rotations out of the Zephyr? It seems like a lot of TBS videos show minimal evidence of this while others pretty much all have them, including mine to a great extent. So either TBS's wing design is different than RiteWing's (different airfoil) or TBS is just selectively editing their videos...which is fine, we all pick our best clips.

If it is the wing design/airfoil that minimizes this effect it would be great to learn what the differences are so we can all enjoy more stable flights OR if it's just an unchangeable and inherent feature in the Zephyr that would be good to know too, because at this point I'm beginning to consider other aircraft that are better videographer platforms that have the same flight profile...possibly some hybrid between a 3D plane and pusher glider.

[KMart]

I have noticed mine being bumpy, but I'm flying fairly tail heavy. A nose heavy plane won't be so responsive to bumps.
Max speed- guessing over 200mph. I clocked 164 horizantal after a dive 1/4th as high, so I feel confident I hit 200 going down.


http://www.vimeo.com/27079756

[brosius85]

TBS use elongated winglets for more drag and less yaw wobble. just fly when the air is turbulence free. also make sure your linkages have ZERO slop. and use alot of expo :P lol

[KMart]

Elongated winglets? I didn't know that. May have to try it.

Fixed a lot of it today. Much smoother. So much, I didn't even realize my quicktime player was set to play in 2x speed. :D

[adamchicago]

I've been having major issues with my Zeph the last two days and since I haven't fully gotten my DVR setup working I don't have any telemetry to look at.

Basically I've had several botched launches and two successful launches but crashed circling before getting the goggles on. It's been close to 100 degrees F the last couple days and I wonder if my heavy setup is just having problems with the reduced air density? I thought maybe there was RC control glitches but I did a range test out to probably 1000ft and everything functioned. The crashes did occur during close-in turns...today's happened after coming out of a turn to the downwind it was still on about a 30degree bank angle and it just wouldn't level out banking increasingly more and turning more and more down towards the ground until it cartwheeled in...ugh! Thank God the thing is a tank and has only needed minor repairs;)

I'll tell you, I'm really getting frustrated with flying wings in general and may need to find an alternative soon.

[KMart]

Adam, I fly a heavy Zeph from 7200 feet ASL, and flew up to 15,000ft ASL a few day ago.

Crashing during turns sounds like tipstalling. Are you balanced at the right spot? I'd guess you're tailheavy.

-Kevin

[adamchicago]

You're probably right about the CG...I need to work the problem more. I'll check the CG and get my DVR to work so I can see if anything RC-link/OSD is going on as well. Then I'm going to have to head back out to the boondocks for flying until I can get this thing flying right again. The last two days I was flying at the old Meigs Field in downtown Chicago which is surrounded by water and a frequented bike path so I may have subconsciously been tightening up my turns more than normal.

Hey that is some nice altitude...are those altitudes in your last video?


Adam, I fly a heavy Zeph from 7200 feet ASL, and flew up to 15,000ft ASL a few day ago.

Crashing during turns sounds like tipstalling. Are you balanced at the right spot? I'd guess you're tailheavy.

-Kevin

[KMart]

http://www.vimeo.com/27032596

[adamchicago]

Ok here's my two crashes, would really appreciate your feedback:) I'm pretty sure the first one is a tip stall but the second one seems suspicious to me...it just won't come back to the right even though I had the sticks at full right.

One:

http://www.vimeo.com/27128448

Two:

http://www.vimeo.com/27129658

[timnilson]

Ok here's my two crashes, would really appreciate your feedback:) I'm pretty sure the first one is a tip stall but the second one seems suspicious to me...it just won't come back to the right even though I had the sticks at full right.




It's a bit tricky to know for sure as we don't see your stick input, but they both seem caused by tip stalling.

One thing that helped me was to dial down the elevon throws either by limiting the rates way down or dialing the expo way up. It seems that with little stick input when you bank, the wing goes to almost complete vertical, which could cause the crashes you posted. On the second crash, what did you try to do on the sticks -- level out or bank? It does not look like you're turning (pulling the right stick down) -- you go vertical and straight, loosing altitude rapidly.

[KMart]

Where is your Zephyr balanced? I find mine flys best around 10.25" from the nose.

[KMart]

First one is definitely a spin caused by a tip stall. You're weight is too far back. That's my guess. Tape a tire weight to the nose, see if that helps. Get that balance point up to at least 10.5".

[ritewing]

I also suggest the elavator be about 15% lower than the ail , this helps alot.
You can also help by trimming the inboard side of the elevon so they taper.

[adamchicago]

This is awesome help guys...thank you so much!!! You gave me a few things to work on:

-CG
-throws/expo
-aileron vs elevator...Chris can you explain that a little more...thanks:)
-also my new motor mount has no deflection while the old one had about 3-5 degrees up which would have supported launches and lower speeds better...hmmm

On the second video I have sticks full right, to counter the left roll, but with no response...as you said maybe it is a tip stall because I just turned down wind, so in combo with lower speeds and wind at my back, it just didn't have enough airspeed.

Sorry for being down on the Zeph, just a bit frustrated and have been sweating bullets in the heat, well and need to catch up on some ZZZZZ's;)

Thanks again!

[ritewing]

Hi Adam the elevator doesnt usually need to be set equal rates, the elvator effect is clearly more touchy on the zeph.
I dont use any expo on wings,it expo is not really needed on wings,too much throw can get you in trouble fast.
If you want a little more throw for lower speeds then a dual rate works nicley too.

The wing isnt usually stalled with ail it usually too much elevator.
About 3 degrees of down is about rite.

[ZobZibZab]

the 2nd crash looks more like the servo didn't respond (wing kept going perfectly forward at a decent pace) but sometimes the video doesn't give you the proper feel about that.

[adamchicago]

That's what I'm afraid of...while my range test after the fact was good, I think my Scherrer/Aurora 9 setup is glitching and I maybe intermittently losing RC link. I get several random beeps from the Aurora 9 while flying and am not sure what that means. This seems to be rectified when I have the Scherrer Tx on a tripod away from the Aurora 9 radio but then I'm leashed to the tripod making hand launches even more precarious.

Yet another issue to work.


the 2nd crash looks more like the servo didn't respond (wing kept going perfectly forward at a decent pace) but sometimes the video doesn't give you the proper feel about that.

[ritewing]

Adam both crashes look like loss of orientataion,they seem to fast for a stall.In this vid the flying weight is verry high at 94 oz.
This causes a high speed stall,its weigh is so heavy that it cant get on step .
The elevator is up so hig to get it to even fly its in a stall the whole time its flying, then when it slows a little it slides like an egg of a plate.
This is an overweight tipstall.
It doesnt get enough airspped on the way to the ground to recover.
Lower your elevator and ail rates , this will also smooth out the video.

If you are at 65 to 75 oz it should fly great, after 75oz it will slide through the turns a bit, over 80 oz it starts to fly hindered, over 85'' its getn a bit too heavy.
Over 90 oz its just way too heavy like in this vid.
The build is beautiful on this wing ,but she is a fatty.

Try to keep it around 65 to 70 oz as a target weight 75 oz is doable ,but much higher is where you start to have issues.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FRS19rSMXo&feature=player_embedded

[egosession]

Are twisted servo and esc cables and ferrit cores essential for a noiseless video system? Or is it okey, to have normal flat servo and esc cables, and maybe one ferrit core in the ESC line?

And about the Zephyr aileron modification: Do you guys sand the tapered area down so that the TE gets thin?

[adamchicago]

Chris, the dive at the end of your video looks exactly like what happened on my first flight video and maybe the second too...this is really good to learn because I wasn't aware of how squirrely these things could be at higher weights.

Unfortunately mine is at about 110+ ounces, but all has been fine until last weekend, however I just recently changed the motor (more power, more weighgt) and motor mount;) Frankly I screwed up my build so much initially cutting out way more foam in all the wrong places that I had to add a lot of extra spars and glue to maintain structural soundness...I'm sure there's an extra 500+gs weight that wouldn't normally need to be there.

[adamchicago]

It's definitely necessary to twist all of your servo lines and the ferrites help too. I put ferrites on my video cables as well.


Are twisted servo and esc cables and ferrit cores essential for a noiseless video system? Or is it okey, to have normal flat servo and esc cables, and maybe one ferrit core in the ESC line?

And about the Zephyr aileron modification: Do you guys sand the tapered area down so that the TE gets thin?

[ritewing]

Wow 110 oz , thats way way heavy, are you messin with me???
Ya you can see in that vid what his does,kinda like yours ,it slides out of the sky like a brick ,a slight roll stall and fall.
You cant be serious 110 oz???
I thought 94 oz was the heaviest I saw till now.

[melvinudall]

adamchicago,

Is it a 60" wing at 110oz?

[ritewing]

Ya I think thats what he said, I cant believe it if it is , he wins the big bertha award if he is,lol
Too much Chicago pizza,lol

[melvinudall]

I was reading a claim of 3.4kg on someone's 60". Was that a joke that I didn't get?

[adamchicago]

Actually when I'm flying the 2x3600 4S's the weight is closer to 116OZ but as you can see in Vimeo clip below it flies fine at that weight...I generally keep it at about 40mph plus.

Which brings me to some resolution on the recent crashes and difficulty launching. Tonight I confirmed that when I moved my Scherrer LR UHF back onto my Aurora 9 radio (as I did last weekend) from it's normal spot on a tripod it was glitching the OSD channel and I'm certain it caused a loss of RC control in the second flight...actually a whole bunch of settings were randomly changed including shutting the OSD screen off, which I though may have been a broken VTx. I never got far enough in the flight to put the goggles on to see what was happening. I also confirmed the servos aren't stripped and also re-angled the motor back up about 3 degrees. The CG is at 10.5 inches from the nose so that should be good, however when I fly with the lighter batts (2x2450 4S's) that probably closer 10.75in or so.

Well with your help and some investigating I feel a lot better about my setup now.

Thanks again...I'll hopefully have some successful flights to post next weekend:)


Wow 110 oz , thats way way heavy, are you messin with me???
Ya you can see in that vid what his does,kinda like yours ,it slides out of the sky like a brick ,a slight roll stall and fall.
You cant be serious 110 oz???
I thought 94 oz was the heaviest I saw till now.


http://www.vimeo.com/25699816

[adamchicago]

Nope that's about right on a 58in Zeph...give or take 3.2-3.4kgs or around 110-116oz...but you can see in the video above it's flying alright.

For the most part the crashes over the weekend seem to be due to one too tight of a turn and a loss of RC link on the second.

Grams in photos below (3278 & 3284)...fluctuated a little while I was balancing the Zeph on its nose.


I was reading a claim of 3.4kg on someone's 60". Was that a joke that I didn't get?

[adamchicago]

Da Chi-Town Za is delish;)

[egosession]

@ adamchicago: Thanks for your answer. Did you put ferrites on every singel servoline or is it possible to use one big ferrite and feed both servowires and the esc cable through it?
For the videoline I use shielded cables, so I guess then I can leave the ferrites away there.

[adamchicago]

For right or wrong I don't use ferrites on the two elevon servos but do heavily twist every cable. I do put ferrites on the VTx and camera cables which are also shielded as well and with that setup I have a clean image glitchless setup. However I do have glitches on my RC Tx which is whole other issue;)



@ adamchicago: Thanks for your answer. Did you put ferrites on every single servo line or is it possible to use one big ferrite and feed both servowires and the esc cable through it?
For the videoline I use shielded cables, so I guess then I can leave the ferrites away there.

[brosius85]

this is just my opinion (obviously) but if you go an untrodden path
you are more likely to see problems noone else does.
build a lite zeph, you cannot stall it. mine glides evenly no matter how hard i try to stall. the flying will be a lot less headache inducing at lower weight. also you can land in a few meters of runway.
and get that cg set!!! 10.5!!!

dont mean to sound rude.

also are you using autopilot!?? D:D:D:

[timnilson]

Nope that's about right on a 58in Zeph...give or take 3.2-3.4kgs or around 110-116oz...but you can see in the video above it's flying alright.

For the most part the crashes over the weekend seem to be due to one too tight of a turn and a loss of RC link on the second.

Grams in photos below (3278 & 3284)...fluctuated a little while I was balancing the Zeph on its nose.

Adam -- I have a 58" Zeph and am about 1kg lighter than you (at 2.3KG AUW). I use 2 heavy 4s 3300mah batteries. I think you're way heavy. But, the Zeph is a workhorse and if you get your RX/TX issues worked out, it may still be ok.

[imdone]

Finally decided to make all these parts start to look like a plane.
2405

[ritewing]

Adam is that a Zeph in the pic, it looks like somthing else, do your bats and lids really protrude all over itself like that?

The build is very rough bro, not to be rude but its not aerodynamicly clean at all, it will have all kinds of personalities at differant speed ranges.

With the build being so loose it could be flexing and rolling all over when flying,this will keep it from tracking true and strait, so will the batts sticking up like that.

I was surprised it flew so heavy ,and now it blows me away that it flys at all without folding.
Not to Delish,lol




Nope that's about right on a 58in Zeph...give or take 3.2-3.4kgs or around 110-116oz...but you can see in the video above it's flying alright.

For the most part the crashes over the weekend seem to be due to one too tight of a turn and a loss of RC link on the second.

Grams in photos below (3278 & 3284)...fluctuated a little while I was balancing the Zeph on its nose.

[ritewing]

Nice and clean so far imdone.

[imdone]

thanks!

[egosession]

Hi chris, do you supplie to the 48" zeph the 54" zeph winglets? My winglets looking really big. They stick out, 40mm from TE evelon to middle zickzack winglet.

There isnt alot 48" zephyr footage or building log/ material around where I could compare. The one 48" zeph on rcg (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1296658&page=3) looks like that he has also big winglets.

Can I resize em? I only would adjust the lenght, not the height.

[Trappy]

The longer the winglets the more stable your plane in the yaw axis. You can resize or even do without winglets, you just need to know it will gradually destabilize your plane.

[adamchicago]

This isn't a knock against you or anyone on this thread but it's not like I have choice on the weight.

Because this was my first Zeph build and I only have couple years of RC building experience I totally botched it, cutting way too much out of the middle, which then required adding all sorts of extra spars, epoxy, and fiber tape to strengthen it...I can't just strip that stuff out to cut the weight. Then I wanted a full OSD system (including airspeed and RTH) thus I needed a stronger and heavier motor to support all of this weight. I wish I could have a redo, but for the cost of a new Zeph and the time it takes to build, I'd rather just keep flying what I have...frankly it flies great except for the one bad turn I made and the loss of RC link over the weekend;)


Adam -- I have a 58" Zeph and am about 1kg lighter than you (at 2.3KG AUW). I use 2 heavy 4s 3300mah batteries. I think you're way heavy. But, the Zeph is a workhorse and if you get your RX/TX issues worked out, it may still be ok.

[adamchicago]

Awesome...thanks Trappy!


The longer the winglets the more stable your plane in the yaw axis. You can resize or even do without winglets, you just need to know it will gradually destabilize your plane.

[adamchicago]

Man I'm really getting beat up over here...the thing flies great except for one bad turn which was obviously too tight and loss of RC link last weekend!

The batts and lids all lay flat...I threw the batts in really quick on their ends for the photo on the scale, and because the lids weren't fastened down and the Zeph is on its nose on the scale they're flopped out...geesh!

With the extra sparing, epoxy and fibertape it's an absolute tank! ...it doesn't flex or wobble...probably at all.

Here's a photos of it buttoned up:
24092410

24112412



Adam is that a Zeph in the pic, it looks like somthing else, do your bats and lids really protrude all over itself like that?

The build is very rough bro, not to be rude but its not aerodynamicly clean at all, it will have all kinds of personalities at differant speed ranges.

With the build being so loose it could be flexing and rolling all over when flying,this will keep it from tracking true and strait, so will the batts sticking up like that.

I was surprised it flew so heavy ,and now it blows me away that it flys at all without folding.
Not to Delish,lol

[ritewing]

Its all good Adam, the build is a testament on the platform and its abilty to be a workhorse.
I never would have thought it would be hand lanchable at that weight let alone fly.
You have defied physics, its just verry rough.

In the pix it is clearly a beast ,take it with a grain of salt bro, we are all in awe.
Your next one will be much nicer ,and will fly way better.
This thread is for building and learning,we are trying to help you with some of your issues.
Dont take it in offense.




Man I'm really getting beat up over here...the thing flies great except for one bad turn which was obviously too tight and loss of RC link last weekend!

The batts and lids all lay flat...I threw the batts in really quick on their ends for the photo on the scale, and because the lids weren't fastened down and the Zeph is on its nose on the scale they're flopped out...geesh!

With the extra sparing, epoxy and fibertape it's an absolute tank! ...it doesn't flex or wobble...probably at all.

Here's a photos of it buttoned up:
24092410

24112412

[ritewing]

Trappy is correct, you can go taller but we have found there is a sweet spot when going longer and taller ,too tall doesnt usually work well ,and too long doesnt work well either .
Trap has ben doing some crazy setus on the wings ,he has been working on some diff winglet configs that work in some of the diff heavy odd setups.

I have a new multiple stablizer winglet config that I have ben working on latley, you will see soon possibly.


The longer the winglets the more stable your plane in the yaw axis. You can resize or even do without winglets, you just need to know it will gradually destabilize your plane.

[ritewing]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1481427&highlight=zephyr#post18935192

I really like fpv labs .

[Trappy]

haha. I love how people "prefer" planes over others they haven't flown. this is how real scientific results are made!

[ritewing]

I know thats why I was saying I like fpv labs, same old stuff over there.
It just cracks me up.

[Trappy]

Trappy is correct, you can go taller but we have found there is a sweet spot when going longer and taller ,too tall doesnt usually work well ,and too long doesnt work well either .
Trap has ben doing some crazy setus on the wings ,he has been working on some diff winglet configs that work in some of the diff heavy odd setups.
to be precise, you can both go taller and longer. the further rearwards you go the more the added surface stabilizes the yaw wobble. a swept wing also works better. This is why we swept our wings slightly more (the TBS kits). Experimentation is the best way to go here, obviously having a lot of planes and material on handy is an advantage :)

One take away lesson we have found, though, is that more speed increases the stability. So the faster you plan on flying your wings, the less benefit bigger winglets have. a bigger winglet will slow down your plane and actually decrease stability.

[ritewing]

There is also a place where too much sweep causes the wing to yaw and roll out sloppy to one side or the other when pulling the elevator.
Alot of sweep makes for non axial huge ugly barrel rolls.
Wings ballanced rite with less sweep seem to turn loop and loop more clean at higher speeds.
But this requires a forward cg.
A forward cg is not always fesible for wings like the zeph that are hauling gear ,airfoil and controll surface shape hinging and placement have alot to do with the way it flys ,as does clean builds without crazy obstructions sticking out.
The cleaner you make the build the better it will fly.
The trick is to find the sweet spots for required gear and handling charicteristics.

Speed increases stability on some wings, not all ,some with bad designs get less stable.:p

[melvinudall]

Some like American chocolate the best, because it's the only kind they've ever had.

[roberto]

reminds me of the RC club days and the guys who talked a lot but never flew... they always sounded like the knew all.



haha. I love how people "prefer" planes over others they haven't flown. this is how real scientific results are made!

[adamchicago]

Just add 1KG to all your builds and you'll get stabilization LOL;)

Trappy, that's interesting what you say about speed increasing stability and reducing the need for bigger winglets because I have to fly fast out of necessity because of the additional weight, and my vids do seem smoother than some of the lighter build videos I've seen...that's not saying I have the ideal setup at all...there are a lot of deficits to a heavy build including a hairy launch, but just noting the observation;)

You guys are going to kill me over this comment but here it goes...potentially stealing the vertical/horizontal stabilizer from the Bobcat (pictured below) would probably add complete stability, however it is a significant change in overall aircraft design and flight controls...maybe too far from the true flying wing. But if you cut the nose off the Bobcat you basically have a Zephyr with a tail:

Just an idea for testing, not a knock to the Zephyr design;)
2443

[KMart]

Good luck getting it to balance with all that junk in the trunk. ;)

-Kevin

[ritewing]

I like milk chocolate with creamy peanut butter with a tall glass of milk.
Or bacon dipped in chocolate,lol

[timnilson]

This isn't a knock against you or anyone on this thread but it's not like I have choice on the weight.

Because this was my first Zeph build and I only have couple years of RC building experience I totally botched it, cutting way too much out of the middle, which then required adding all sorts of extra spars, epoxy, and fiber tape to strengthen it...I can't just strip that stuff out to cut the weight. Then I wanted a full OSD system (including airspeed and RTH) thus I needed a stronger and heavier motor to support all of this weight. I wish I could have a redo, but for the cost of a new Zeph and the time it takes to build, I'd rather just keep flying what I have...frankly it flies great except for the one bad turn I made and the loss of RC link over the weekend;)

Adam -- i was not meaning to be critical, if it came across as that, I apologize. I was merely trying to give you a reference point for what a more usual weight for a 58" Zeph might be. I understand that you had a hard time building your wing, for which I am sorry since I tried to make it clear in the manual on how to do it. Any advice you have on making the manual more clear and to help avoid the troubles you ran into, please let me know and I will definitely try to incorporate your suggestions.

[egosession]

I saw builds with no reinforcement of the bat bays at all! Because this is my first zeph build its hart to tell how mutch reinforcement the zephyr needs at the minimum. So that it survives some hart impacts

My battery bays have only 5mm foam left at the bottom (first picture). Would you recommend to cut all the way through and glue a piece of plywood on the bottom?

2448

[brosius85]

the battery bays dont need reinforcing. picture a crash- (one i just did) you nose into a boulder at 20mph- the nose is squashed. 4 inches or so. if there is any spars, plywood, etc. in that 4 inches it will be broken. if its just epp and riteweave it will spring back with no further damage. and your gopro will have a little ding...

my battery bays are cut all the the way to the PU and riteweave bottom.

[imdone]

Mounted my clover leaf into my Zeph. Used the soldering gun to cut the channels for the antenna to go as deep as I could get it to go. then I filled the channels with gorilla glue. turned out good for the lazy job I did. doing it with the gorilla glue made the antenna very rigid. should be able to take a beating. made a little booboo when routing the wire though...no big deal though.
2463
2464

dont ever get goriila glue on your hands!

[Trappy]

keep in mind plywood will break, but you can just piece it together and re-secure it with superglue. I highly recommend adding plywood, constant adding and removing of batteries will wear out the battery bays otherwise.

[imdone]

any trick to mounting the control horns to the elevrons?? I have these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMUB6&P=7 them mounting holes are very tiny!

[adamchicago]

No worries...and the build manual is awesomely detailed:) The problems I ran into were a result of deviating from the standard build in order to incorporate Beauregards in-wing camera build which resulted in having to move all of the equipment back several inches, causing me to run out of space and therefore cut too much structural foam out. All is good in the end, except the weight of the added spars, epoxy and fibertape;)

But I understand what I did is a major deviation from the standard build and not a reflection of the FPV Zephyr manual...although I do believe the camera in-wing design is the way to go and wish the powers that be, come up with a new design that incorporates that;)


Adam -- i was not meaning to be critical, if it came across as that, I apologize. I was merely trying to give you a reference point for what a more usual weight for a 58" Zeph might be. I understand that you had a hard time building your wing, for which I am sorry since I tried to make it clear in the manual on how to do it. Any advice you have on making the manual more clear and to help avoid the troubles you ran into, please let me know and I will definitely try to incorporate your suggestions.

[adamchicago]

Bigger batteries;)


Good luck getting it to balance with all that junk in the trunk. ;)

-Kevin

[egosession]

@ imdone... thats what I thought too. Plywood would probably break, or worse, it could cut into the epp. I.e. when useing a 3mm plywood bottom plate. But trappy has a got argument too and the plywood boxes looking good ;). I thought about to laminate some glassfiberclothe into the bays - or laminate a box and glue that into the bays. Thats flexibel and will help with the wear out.

Is that a 54" zeph imdone? Then those batteries must be huge. With my 48" its very limited space. I also thought about to change from 3S 2200mAh (25mm thick) to 3S 2650 - 3500mAh (18 - 20mm thick) only because of the thickness. They would be mutch mutch bigger though. But it seems not to be a big deal to cut all the way down.

--------------
Imdone: About the control horns:

I maybe will use the same control horns. Then I would use a 2mm drill, make two holes diagonal and probably use some epoxy to glue them to the wood. And befor glueing, I would sand the metal on.
24722473


-------------------------
At the end some general infos about my build:

As you can see in the pictures I have carbon pushrods there. But I wasnt sure if they would affect the video and RC transmission. Thats why I got me some GFK tubes today. Now I have GFK pushrods and no carbon at all on my ship. Thats how I like it ;)

[Ian Davidson]

Sorry, possibly a dumb question... Do many people laminate their wing BEFORE cutting out their locations for the electronics, servos and batteries?

[Trappy]

I do not recommend laminating before equipments. your plane is much more rugged when laminated last.

[Ian Davidson]

I do not recommend laminating before equipments. your plane is much more rugged when laminated last.

Oki-doki, thanks! :) I guess I was just wondering about the effects of laminating on the CG...

[Trappy]

on the zephyr build it slightly nose-heavy, there is more foil behind the CG so it will shift the CG slightly.

[melvinudall]

What do you all do about the hairy fuzz that seems to result from sanding the foam? I really don't want to paint but the foam starts to look shabby after sanding, also a bit greyish.

[egosession]

I was thinking about the use light weight spackle all over the wing to get a nice surface. I also did some testing with a piece of epp. The best surface I get is when I spray a layer of 3M90, let it dry a night and then sand it. As chris from ritewing said. It adds a bit of weight though when the hole wing needs to be covered. But acutally the epp will be covered with lam foil. You wont feel it afterwards ;)

The thing is, that the 3M90 needs to fill up all the pores of the epp, that is adding a lot of weight. Maybe it helps to fill the pores with leight weight spackle and then do the 3M90 cover. I m just scared that the spackle doesnt stick as good as the 3M90 does.

There is a lot stuff about covering ritewings/epp in the internet.

Link (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15599727&postcount=13)

Link (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12565)

From a wiki about EPP: "EPP can be sanded but it helps to use a sanding block to spread the pressure, and to sand in long smooth movements to prevent ripping the beads out. Belt, disk and drum power sanders work well, orbital sanders either tear out chunks or leave lots of stringy bits. Stringy bits left over from sanding can be melted with a hot air gun."

[melvinudall]

Thanks. I tried an orbital sander. Of course I tried the one that doesn't work.

[adamchicago]

Have you guys seen this? This is Trappy / TBS to the extreme!!! They did such a fantastic job not only flying, but the sheer effort that must have gone into this video and the editing, is fantastic...top notch!!!!!!! YOU'LL ENJOY IT!!!


http://www.vimeo.com/groups/67109/videos/27224910


http://www.vimeo.com/27224910

[airbagit13]

Best video ever! Good job everyone who took part in it. I hate you guys though because its dark and windy and all I want to do now is go fly a wing.

[egosession]

Yeah, I totally have the same feelings... a year ago when I started with FPV I couldnt watch TBS videos at all. I had to save money too get some FPV stuff and trappys video gave me a craving I never felt befor... the fridge was empty because I spendet the food money on FPV stuff. Hungry and on fpv turky...

[adamchicago]

I'm a total newbie, but after having edited a few videos, it's obvious that this TBS video and several of the past videos required a lot of effort. I'm assuming multiple shoots in many locations, over several days maybe weeks, hiking like crazy, coordination of manpower, and major preliminary planning, probably at least 1 lost plane?? and hours and hours of editing to insanity!!!!

TBS you rock!

Highly motivational:)

Mean while I'm in my second bedroom on a Friday night soldering wires and configuring OSD software while my wife is out partying with her friends...ahhh the life we lead:)

[KMart]

Trappy, what size winglets are you using?? Rough estimate?

I'm unhappy with how my Zeph flys. Yaws like CRAZY. Feel like I'm wagging my tail constantly, even while flying straight...

-Kevin

[ritewing]

Hi Kev if you are flying in alot of thermal updrafts and cross winds then it will waggle, you can make the winglets slightly taller and 3 to 4 inches longer , this is like giving it a longer tail moment and it will help with you issues.
Its kinda like a longer wheel base when pulling a trailer.lol.
The Zeph in general does not waggle much, but in some conditions it will.
The cleaner the build will also have less yaw and waggle.

[ritewing]

Hey Kev if you are flying in alot of thermal updrafts or cross winds it will waggle.
You can make the winglets slightly taller and 3 to 4 inches longer,this will really help.
When you do this it is llike having a longer tail moment, kinda like a long wheel base truck pulling a trailer,lol

By design the zeph doesnt really waggle much to begin with ,antenna and other objects could be causing the buffeting you are describing ,see any waggle here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9L4phs1owA

[KMart]

Yeah, there is no wag in Trappy's videos. I'm jealous. :D

I think it's a combination of all of the above. Antenna on wing, intense crosswinds, and updrafts. I'll try for bigger winglets tonight! :)

-Kevin

[ritewing]

Ya, dont go way taller but go nice and long, try to keep them smooth and sym ,mount them 50 50 top and bottom.
Who knows the antenna could be causing it to do the occilate waggle.

[Trappy]

standard size. let go of the sticks smoothly after a turn, then it will turn without waggle.

[adamchicago]

Death of my heavy:( Had one good flight on Saturday, followed by a failed launch which hit the ground nose down pretty hard and broke the additional central support spars I put in place to make up for all the foam I mistakenly cut out.

It's weird because it's still super strong from wingtip to wingtip in terms of supporting g-forces and central weight but it lost it's torsional support, so now it twists loosely from wingtip to wingtip.

I could fix it, but because it's all structural and involving the whole central area of the wing it would probably make it heavier than it already is so I'm going to have to pause and figure out what to do at this point if anything:(

[egosession]

I m sorry to hear that. I hope you have saved enough adrealin from this one good flight to move on!

[adamchicago]

Thanks...believe it or not I've already been cooking up a rebuild including 68mm ducted fans;)

UPDATE: can't get ducted fans to last more than 10-15mins...so this ideas is a goner:(


I m sorry to hear that. I hope you have saved enough adrealin from this one good flight to move on!

[brosius85]

adam- you need a fresh build. let it go. you could even build a bluecor wing. GO WITH SOMETHING ALREADY PROVEN! i want to see you have an enjoyable reliable flinght bro.

please dont take this as an attack- if you want to go the unkown because that is what feeds your creativity that is cool- but it is painful seeing the struggles :D

[adamchicago]

Actually I am starting fresh...ordered a new blunt nose from Chris last night.

What is "proven" is awesome! ...who doesn't love TBDs videos, but it isn't what I'm looking for, so I'm going to continue to experiment until I get the desired results for the following:

- A build that supports a full OSD system including RTH and stabilization (need more space but maintain structural stability)
- Camera locations tucked into the wing for better aerodynamics and obstruction free view (beauregard build)
- Stop lateral waggle (I know it doesn't exist under PERFECT conditions, but we rarely fly in those conditions...more for videography needs)
- Stop vertical bounce (same with perfect conditions and videography)
- A "FLAT LANDERS" tried and true single person hand launch method, or alternative motor placement etc (excluding helpers, throws off a hills/cliffs and launch tracks/bungees)

I believe I'm not the only one wanting to overcome some of the above, so sorry, you're going to have to read more of my posts and I hope others post ideas and solutions too, that's what these boards are for;)


adam- you need a fresh build. let it go. you could even build a bluecor wing. GO WITH SOMETHING ALREADY PROVEN! i want to see you have an enjoyable reliable flinght bro.

please dont take this as an attack- if you want to go the unkown because that is what feeds your creativity that is cool- but it is painful seeing the struggles :D

[NDw]

Of the maybe 15 zephyr launches I've made, I've had one failure.

I launch on my own and on a flat field.

I can't launch with the googles on, so if that's a requirement fair enough.

I hold it a bit to the left of the nose in my right hand. Hold the wing parrallel with the ground. Throttle up to a bit above mid throttle ( or a bit more if there is zero wind). Run a few paces(into the wind of course) and give it a slight push.

I've been launching my pusher planes for about a year this way(after an accident with my Skyfun), so am well used to it . Initally it took a bit of getting used to.

[Ian Davidson]

How about a JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off) launch??


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxBp4XRZwOg

Sorry, I'm not really helping much here :rolleyes:

[adamchicago]

NDw, that is a good launch method...that worked for me for several launches until mine got too heavy for that style launch. Although I was able to launch like that as a heavy when I had a decent wind.

Are you flying full OSD and with additional HD camera?


Of the maybe 15 zephyr launches I've made, I've had one failure.

I launch on my own and on a flat field.

I can't launch with the googles on, so if that's a requirement fair enough.

I hold it a bit to the left of the nose in my right hand. Hold the wing parrallel with the ground. Throttle up to a bit above mid throttle ( or a bit more if there is zero wind). Run a few paces(into the wind of course) and give it a slight push.

I've been launching my pusher planes for about a year this way(after an accident with my Skyfun), so am well used to it . Initally it took a bit of getting used to.

[adamchicago]

That was fricken awesome! ...talk about a quick climb out!


How about a JATO (Jet Assisted Take Off) launch??


Sorry, I'm not really helping much here :rolleyes:

[melvinudall]

Adam

All that is very achievable. A fresh build will do you a lot of good. Personally, I like it when I can get my lateral waggled.

[NDw]

NDw, that is a good launch method...that worked for me for several launches until mine got too heavy for that style launch. Although I was able to launch like that as a heavy when I had a decent wind.

Are you flying full OSD and with additional HD camera?


OSD yep but no HD camera. Also smaller than typical batteries (2x 2650 4s). Although it def feels like it could take quiet a bit more weight and still launch very well, especially if higher throttle was used.

[brosius85]

my launch method is fine for no wind flat land no help launches :D 100% success on my wing at weights up to 2.6kg :D not sure if i could do it with yours though.

just grip it on the front, off center to avoid the prop as it comes past, throttle up 100%, take a little step if you want, and throw it from behind yourself forward like the javelein/ football guys do. at as close to horisontal as you can. maybe 5 degrees up but no more is needed. my elevon control is on the left stick so i always have my hand on that stick thruought the launch.

it is quite nerve racking the first few times, but once you have it it is perfect. and you never need to have a "helper" (who are usually useless) launch it for you.

this is a video of my first ever rc experience (december last year) the launches are nearly as bad as my flying LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXUACekO5xs&feature=channel_video_title

i have since gotten the zephyr and the new launch technique. seen here in high wind but works fine in low wind with a good throw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgHXQ4P7GGc&feature=relmfu

[brosius85]

had another browse through the manual tim- a few things i have noticed you may or may not want to change.

video tx and rx include immersionrc 2.4 gear... as far as i am aware it (the vrx) is no longer being manufacured. perhaps recommend to lawmate?

epoxy the motor mount- CK doesnt, i dont.... we use hotglue. less waiting, you can make sure it sets in the right spot and doesnt move. epoxy is so slow :(

other than that it is still incredibly informative and a true service to all zeph builders. thanks again!!!!

[KMart]

Chris-

dropped bigger winglets on this morning. Totally different plane. On rails! Love it. And to top it off, I made my first cloud flight today. Happy Camper!

[M'ck'y]

Pics pls!


Chris-

dropped bigger winglets on this morning. Totally different plane. On rails! Love it. And to top it off, I made my first cloud flight today. Happy Camper!

[adamchicago]

And video!


Chris-

dropped bigger winglets on this morning. Totally different plane. On rails! Love it. And to top it off, I made my first cloud flight today. Happy Camper!

[ritewing]

Cool , the bigger winglets will offer more stabilty , you just need to watch the tail weight.
The newer winglets have been larger for a while now, just dont want to go to big.
Then you will be adding noseweight to counter them.

[KMart]

Yeah, keep in mind, I've got a PHAT Zeph here, so that's probably why it needed bigger winglets. ;)

Video- I'm actually going to be "that guy" and not post it. Yet. ;) Will use it in a different video now, then I'll do a Cloud flight only edit after. :)

Pics this weekend probably, if you remind me. ;)

-Kevin

[timnilson]

Here is my way to launch a Zephyr without fail... requires a piece of gear though.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjMsTJe-qEc&feature=player_embedded

[timnilson]

had another browse through the manual tim- a few things i have noticed you may or may not want to change.

video tx and rx include immersionrc 2.4 gear... as far as i am aware it (the vrx) is no longer being manufacured. perhaps recommend to lawmate?

epoxy the motor mount- CK doesnt, i dont.... we use hotglue. less waiting, you can make sure it sets in the right spot and doesnt move. epoxy is so slow :(

other than that it is still incredibly informative and a true service to all zeph builders. thanks again!!!!


Thanks for your feedback! Good point on the gear recommendations. On the motor mount -- I use epoxy... but 5 minute epoxy!! No waiting... in fact you have to be quick to distribute the epoxy and set your motor plate before it gets hard. I should clarify that in the manual. I am not at all a fan of using hotglue for the motor mount. Hotglue is 'ok' for EPP but by no means is it as strong as epoxy. It's ok for parts that don't have stress on them like your coroplast lids... but the motor... I won't be using hotglue for it.

And Chris is only using hotglue because that's the only glue he has... he even uses it to glue the zephyr boxes shut ;) (kidding)

[ritewing]

Hot glue rocks on the motor mount, but to ea his own,lol
I would never use epoxy on a super flexible foam,its like using concrete to patch a tire.:p
Besides people complain on how hard it is to open my boxes,imagine what it does on the motor mount:D

[timnilson]

Hot glue rocks on the motor mount, but to ea his own,lol
I would never use epoxy on a super flexible foam,its like using concrete to patch a tire.:p

Chris -- the motor-mount plate is stiff metal that hotglue has a hard time holding onto... the trick is how you attach a stiff object to flexible foam. When I glue hard parts with hotglue and try to pry them apart, eventually hotglue just gives up and the parts pop away from each other (just like CA does on hard parts). Hotglue holds on to the EPP just fine. Epoxy is great at grabbing onto the metal, especially if you rough it up. And it has no problem holding onto the EPP also. But, you've built about 1,000 more Zephyrs than I have, so... hotglue it is... but not for me ;)

[ritewing]

Its all good bro ,to ea his own, goop also works great.
When you cover the plate with foam and wrap it in lam it will never come loose.
Use what works for you.

[brosius85]

lol sorry for bringing up the glue argument haha there is never a way to win. everyone makes up their own mind in the end. i have seen glue arguments before so...

THIS THREAD IS NO LONGER ABOUT GLUE!

CONTINUE DISCUSSION OF ZEPHYR AWESOMENESS!

i had my 3rd fpv flight with the zephyr today... AWESOME!!! i can feel my confidence growing already! cant wait for more!!!

[adamchicago]

Tim, the Ruby auto launch looks awesome, but MAN you have got to be careful doing a full throttle launch with a hand hold in front of the prop! I'll bet if you use slo-mo video that you'll see the prop misses your hand or forearm by an inch or less. The only way anyone should be doing in-front-of-the-prop handheld launches is with motor off, then throttle up after release...which is almost impossible with a heavy on a flat surface.

IMO and I know I have the least experience here, is any powered launches should be from at least midway down the wing and from the side.

[QUOTE=timnilson;17778]Here is my way to launch a Zephyr without fail... requires a piece of gear though.

[adamchicago]

What if you turn on Ruby, then do a throttle-off discus throw from the side with your other hand on the throttle (won't matter if it's left or right hand because Ruby will handle the elevons stick) then as soon as it's away go full throttle with whichever hand is on the radio, then while Ruby is controlling the fly-out get your hands straightened away on the sticks as usual.

[semonino]

HELLO TO ALL
LOOKING FOR THE RATINGS Winglets
COULD YOU HELP ME
THANKS TO ALL

[Dallibab]

Fast landing today in my 66" Zephyr, trying to land on a postage stamp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4QYR0hTtO0

[ritewing]

LOL , that was a crazy landing , it will land much slower if you bring it in from a distance at just above tree level ,it will not slow much on a dive landing;)

That was some nice flying and scenery.

[ritewing]

Have you used the ones in the Kit

[Dallibab]

Thanks.

Yes video on board was a bit flakey so I get her down quick, didnt want to fall short in the water ( not that there was much chance of that)

[semonino]

don't have a kit !!!!
shipping for france it is so much
sorry

http://www.vimeo.com/25311999
i love the ritewing style
thanks

[ritewing]

Hey buddy nice video.

Email me at ritewing@hotmail.com
don't have a kit !!!!
shipping for france it is so much
sorry

http://www.vimeo.com/25311999
i love the ritewing style
thanks

[semonino]

thanks a lot
but I can not to match the team blacksheep!!!
maybe one day with a ritewing !!

[adamchicago]

That was like an aircraft carrier landing...fast!


Fast landing today in my 66" Zephyr, trying to land on a postage stamp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4QYR0hTtO0

[Dallibab]

That was like an aircraft carrier landing...fast!

I don't normally land that fast but it's handy to know you can , no damage at all
Can you imagine anything else landing that fast, you would need a bag for all the bits

[Dallibab]

That was like an aircraft carrier landing...fast!

I don't normally land that fast but it's handy to know you can , no damage at all
Can you imagine anything else landing that fast, you would need a bag for all the bits

[ritewing]

Ya that was nice , it was fly it into the ground as gentle as you can.
I was impressed!

[egosession]

I have a question about covering/ painting the zeph:

TBS mention once, that they replace the ritewave in a certain time period to keep the wing strong and clean.

Now, when I paint my zeph and after some time I want to replace the lamination/ ritewave, I guess the paint will come off. Then maybe its a good idea to keep the wing blank if I want to do that.

The problem is, when I marked the bays, that I almost draw a piccaso with black, blue and green marker. Is there a way to get that off? I tried to sand it off, to put light weight spackle over it and to remove it with thinner (maybe there is a certain thinner to use?), with no big succes.

[melvinudall]

Anyone else try using HS-81 servos on a 60-66" wing set? I thought they'd be fine but no dice. Stripped out during 3rd flight. Am I under sizing?

Also, anyone bothered to go brushless to reduce noise? If so, what did you choose?

[ritewing]

I use full size standard ,or digi with atleast 70 in oz of torque.
These aint no park flyer bro.

[adamchicago]

I'm using the 70oz'torquers per Chris's recommendation and they've even survived a few real hard nose-ins to the ground too...they're the way to go. You only need two of them so it's not too big of a financial hit;)

[adamchicago]

can any of you guys recommend a good source for a 70cm 5-7 element yagi? while these things are highly recommended on the Thomas Scherrer thread, no one seems to be able to supply a link to a good source

[melvinudall]

I use full size standard ,or digi with atleast 70 in oz of torque.
These aint no park flyer bro.


I'm using the 70oz'torquers per Chris's recommendation and they've even survived a few real hard nose-ins to the ground too...they're the way to go. You only need two of them so it's not too big of a financial hit;)

Ordered.

I've never stripped a servo, even in a crash before. I guess I was beginning to think I could get away with it forever.

[egosession]

Any one a good trick to remove marker marks from EPP?

[KMart]

paint over it. :D


Try rubbing alcohol maybe?

[melvinudall]

I tried alcohol. I haven't tried bleach though. Best to be careful about where you mark up with ink. Some markers bleed through the paint anyway.

[brosius85]

egosession: use a pencil to mark out if you arent going to monokote or paint :D

you could always just buy another! sorry man.

the prettier she is the less likely you are to fly between trees anyway. maybe just do a nice big design with the sharpie? like how people go over tattoos with new designs lol

[timnilson]

egosession: use a pencil to mark out if you arent going to monokote or paint :D

you could always just buy another! sorry man.

the prettier she is the less likely you are to fly between trees anyway. maybe just do a nice big design with the sharpie? like how people go over tattoos with new designs lol

To keep a clean white Zephyr... don't use any pens. Use blue masking tape and Pins instead. Use the pins to mark out your cutting corners. This way you can play with layouts, move things around proportionately to each other. Then use a straight edge against the pins to start cutting perfectly precise where you want to cut.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5139/5399230261_6f42b1460c_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5259/5398377200_af41daa32e_z.jpg

[egosession]

Thanks tim. good tip... I thought I gonna paint it... I allready made the design... until I heard that its possibel to replace the rtitewave and the lam to keep the zeph strong and clean.

Last night I had some succes with nitrothinner. Apply it with a very small paint brush onto the marks, wait 1 or two seconds, take some toilettpaper or similar to soak it up. It works very well, but its very time consuming until the last marks are gone.

I will try to bleach it too. I let ya know what happens. Thanks for your help!

PS. How about a list with things we would do diffrent on the next zeph build? This could be very helpfull for newbies. And maybe also for oldies ;)

[M'ck'y]

i can contribute some too, i just finished my 2nd zeph after using too much 3m90 :( plane is 800g lighter! )

[Trappy]

800g 3M90? wtf? :)

timnilso, at the risk of stating the obvious, your propeller is the wrong way around :)

[roberto]

just hoping someday the Zeph would be injection molded like all the production units from bevrc and all... that would make a blockbuster for sure...

[Trappy]

some day ... :)

[timnilson]

800g 3M90? wtf? :)

timnilso, at the risk of stating the obvious, your propeller is the wrong way around :)

Thanks :)

[M'ck'y]

yeah lol.. my mate is a panel beater and was showing me how to use the 3m90, you need 2 cans to get a sand-able surface as well as so much paint that you can't tell it's epp ... gopro pan tilt was 350g and the rest was a lot of riteweave 3m90 and paint.
the second built is 2kg without go pro and gsm tracker. so total weight is 2160g, maiden is coming up this weekend !

I need the tbs69 and psu to show up, it's making me sick now :(

[Trappy]

M'ck'y, did you see our thread about the problems with our shipping provider? Where do you live? Tomorrow I have meetings scheduled with some of the shipping providers.

[M'ck'y]

yeh i'm following every updates of it. I don't even know if i'm waiting on the cam alone or with the psu . I'm tempted to just use what I have to fpv if the maiden turns out well.

[Trappy]

I'm pretty sure we shipped the PSU as well. This is extremely frustrating for us, hope you can hang in there while we sort it out.

[M'ck'y]

It would be frustrating for sure, not something we have control over but thanks and hope they sort it out.

[radialmind]

Hey Tim,

I've been following this thread to do my purchases. I have some comments that I hope you'll use to update the guide with.

The motor can be mounted in two different ways. The suggested way is to put the motor inwards facing the zephyr such that the regular shaft points backwards. I actually bought an adapter for this and it all works, but I'd rather mount the motor backwards to reduce noise and increase efficiency. Also I seem to have some CG issues where it's still too far forward, so putting things back as much as possible is useful. Could you at least make a mention that it's only needed provided you mount the motor forward? I'm going to hop into the modelshop here to get myself sorted for the other mounting method. The A30-10L shaft is 5mm, whereas the reverse prop mount has a threaded axle of 6mm instead. Unfortunately the 5mm shaft has the 40/5/8 adapter on it, so I need to either get a 6mm prop mount or adapt to 8mm instead. It would be good to at least mention this so others don't make similar mistakes.

The other thing is that Amazon doesn't ship at least 5 of those items to europe (the iron, gorilla glue, 3m90 and the dubro kwik links and something else). I opted to use Rhino Glue instead, which was available from der-schweighofer. I got my 3m90 from a local shop here and the rest from local shops. The kwik links seem a good option, but any modelshop has suitable 2mm/3mm links, any can be used because the 12" rods need to be adjusted anyway (they're too long usually). Unless there's a reason to use specifically those. I also soldered 2 tubes with another thread on the other end, so that I can put another clevis there and I have very good, strong links on either side. This is best done when the layout is known, so I suggest to just get a rod that's long enough, wait for the servo's to be positioned and then cut the rods to size, place a tube around it if you sink the servo's in and connect everything at the other end. When it's all connected up and working, it makes sense to solder the clevises to the rods, to make sure the m2 threads don't let go after some time. Anyway... getting things from the US is insanely costly for many europeans, because anything that doesn't fit in an envelope ends up with at least US$12.00 in shipping. So I'd suggest entering a note that any other m2/m3 rod can be used from any national modelshop.

The other side of the kwik link uses something like this: http://www.der-schweighofer.at/artikel/7716/gabelkopfset_metall_2_mm_2_stueck

Cheers... working my way through it :). Good guide.

[NDw]

I have the motor hanging off the back and still had to move the batteries as far forward as they'd go to get the cg right ( using slightly lighter batteries than most other people though, and no go pro).

Did you tape on the elevons and winglets when calculating the cg? They make a big dif.

[radialmind]

No, that was the mistake I made. with the full roll of lam round the motor I saw the CG drop back by a cm already. How far away from LE is "far as they go"?

The critical part in the layout will be the motor and the batteries. Once they are placed, the rest just fills in automatically from there, as well as the spacing of the light spars after the LE. Any distances are welcome.

(edit: i.e.. distance of the battery bay to LE, parallel to the LE and the distance of the U-shaped motor mount plate to the nose of the wing).

[NDw]

Just measured there and the bats' are just under an inch from the LE. I put a few small carbon strips accross the front of the bays to stop the bats just ripping through on a hard landing and it works well.

I have the motor mount starting about and inch from the TE and if I was making a new one I'd move it maybe 1 - 1.5 inces further forward again so as to not have to put the bats so far forward. But obviously if you are using a go pro and heaveier bats prob. about an inch in from the TE is a good place to start the motor mount(if you've the motor hanging off ther back).

[Optical]

Has anyone tried 6S batteries with a 500-600KV motor?
Currently planning a Zephyr build, and have a lot of 3S batteries to use...

[timnilson]

Hey Tim,

I've been following this thread to do my purchases. I have some comments that I hope you'll use to update the guide with.

The motor can be mounted in two different ways. The suggested way is to put the motor inwards facing the zephyr such that the regular shaft points backwards. I actually bought an adapter for this and it all works, but I'd rather mount the motor backwards to reduce noise and increase efficiency. Also I seem to have some CG issues where it's still too far forward, so putting things back as much as possible is useful. Could you at least make a mention that it's only needed provided you mount the motor forward? I'm going to hop into the modelshop here to get myself sorted for the other mounting method. The A30-10L shaft is 5mm, whereas the reverse prop mount has a threaded axle of 6mm instead. Unfortunately the 5mm shaft has the 40/5/8 adapter on it, so I need to either get a 6mm prop mount or adapt to 8mm instead. It would be good to at least mention this so others don't make similar mistakes.

The other thing is that Amazon doesn't ship at least 5 of those items to europe (the iron, gorilla glue, 3m90 and the dubro kwik links and something else). I opted to use Rhino Glue instead, which was available from der-schweighofer. I got my 3m90 from a local shop here and the rest from local shops. The kwik links seem a good option, but any modelshop has suitable 2mm/3mm links, any can be used because the 12" rods need to be adjusted anyway (they're too long usually). Unless there's a reason to use specifically those. I also soldered 2 tubes with another thread on the other end, so that I can put another clevis there and I have very good, strong links on either side. This is best done when the layout is known, so I suggest to just get a rod that's long enough, wait for the servo's to be positioned and then cut the rods to size, place a tube around it if you sink the servo's in and connect everything at the other end. When it's all connected up and working, it makes sense to solder the clevises to the rods, to make sure the m2 threads don't let go after some time. Anyway... getting things from the US is insanely costly for many europeans, because anything that doesn't fit in an envelope ends up with at least US$12.00 in shipping. So I'd suggest entering a note that any other m2/m3 rod can be used from any national modelshop.

The other side of the kwik link uses something like this: http://www.der-schweighofer.at/artikel/7716/gabelkopfset_metall_2_mm_2_stueck

Cheers... working my way through it :). Good guide.

Thanks for all your feedback!! It's a lot of good stuff. How about I somehow enable you to go into the manual and make these edits/additions?

[adamchicago]

Why did you need a reverse prop adapter? I've had my Scorpion 3020 motor with 5mm shaft mounted both ways and don't see the difference as it relates to the prop. I just pushed the shaft through and it is the same on both ends...does the hacker have a different setup?


Hey Tim,

I've been following this thread to do my purchases. I have some comments that I hope you'll use to update the guide with.

The motor can be mounted in two different ways. The suggested way is to put the motor inwards facing the zephyr such that the regular shaft points backwards. I actually bought an adapter for this and it all works, but I'd rather mount the motor backwards to reduce noise and increase efficiency. Also I seem to have some CG issues where it's still too far forward, so putting things back as much as possible is useful. Could you at least make a mention that it's only needed provided you mount the motor forward? I'm going to hop into the modelshop here to get myself sorted for the other mounting method. The A30-10L shaft is 5mm, whereas the reverse prop mount has a threaded axle of 6mm instead. Unfortunately the 5mm shaft has the 40/5/8 adapter on it, so I need to either get a 6mm prop mount or adapt to 8mm instead. It would be good to at least mention this so others don't make similar mistakes.

The other thing is that Amazon doesn't ship at least 5 of those items to europe (the iron, gorilla glue, 3m90 and the dubro kwik links and something else). I opted to use Rhino Glue instead, which was available from der-schweighofer. I got my 3m90 from a local shop here and the rest from local shops. The kwik links seem a good option, but any modelshop has suitable 2mm/3mm links, any can be used because the 12" rods need to be adjusted anyway (they're too long usually). Unless there's a reason to use specifically those. I also soldered 2 tubes with another thread on the other end, so that I can put another clevis there and I have very good, strong links on either side. This is best done when the layout is known, so I suggest to just get a rod that's long enough, wait for the servo's to be positioned and then cut the rods to size, place a tube around it if you sink the servo's in and connect everything at the other end. When it's all connected up and working, it makes sense to solder the clevises to the rods, to make sure the m2 threads don't let go after some time. Anyway... getting things from the US is insanely costly for many europeans, because anything that doesn't fit in an envelope ends up with at least US$12.00 in shipping. So I'd suggest entering a note that any other m2/m3 rod can be used from any national modelshop.

The other side of the kwik link uses something like this: http://www.der-schweighofer.at/artikel/7716/gabelkopfset_metall_2_mm_2_stueck

Cheers... working my way through it :). Good guide.

[radialmind]

I think so. The official gear just has a reverse mount on it. That's basically another piece of metal you need to screw on. The shaft looks like it has a stop on one end that'd require you to drill that away. So I just followed the general intended method there. The reverse mount is 6mm versus 5mm, so that's why some changes were needed. It's also threaded. Got things sorted in the end. I found a straight prop blade piece, put a little bus between the shaft and this piece, fabricated my own prop stops from a piece of aluminium and it's a tight fit now.

[brosius85]

just put a new power system in my zeph. 2x 3300 25-50c 3s nanotech, castle phoenix ICE 100, E-flite 4025 1250kv outrunner, 10x8 cam aeronaut folder.

re-maiden as soon as the rain gives a break. its gonna be sweet :D:D:D

[radialmind]

Going kiteboarding, eh?

[brosius85]

if it all goes wrong i could have a surf on it i suppose...

[NDw]

Do any / many of you fly the zephyr in mdoerate or more wind?

Was flying mine today in moderate wind and it was wagging really really badly.

[Danub]

I often fly in wind 15mph plus on the ground. I have noticed that sometimes I will get a side to side waggle when flying crosswind. For me if I start to get waggle I apply more throttle and it smoothes out. Someone recently made longer winglets for their Zephyr to combat the same thing with his. I think it was Kmart but I am not 100% sure.

[brosius85]

i pretty much only fly on the beach, and it is almost always windy. if the wind is coming across the ocean towards the coast the zeph flies perfecly smoothly, if the wind is coming across the land towards the ocean it is very turbulent and upsets the wing a fair bit. if you get enough altitude you will get away from the rough wind into smoother wind, and the shakes and waggles will disappear.

[NDw]

I think I'm going to try stronger pushrods. Do these seem like a good choice?

http://www2.ripmax.net/item.asp?itemid=F-IRVPRL&Category=125-30

[adamchicago]

I'll be you guys thought you got rid of me LOL...but no, my brand new replacement blunt nose arrived today...woohoo:) ...thanks Chris the packaging and contents arrived in perfect shape!

Now it's time to dig back into the FPVManuals Ritewing Zephyr website:)

Funny thing is I was just telling my wife how my Skywalker rebuild is now complete so the second bedroom will now be free of RC plane clutter...oh well;)

[KMart]

I fly in what many would consider "extreme" wind. Like, 40-60mph. And no, I am not exaggerating. ;) At the takeoff point, it's usually around 8-10mph when I fly, but jumps WAY up once I reach the local mountain range (notoriously turbulent). Bigger winglets REALLY helped.

[cliffkot]

I'd like to eventually do some flying in the Rockies at the 9000 foot level. Do you have to change anything to fly at those altitudes, like greater prop pitch for example?

Cliff

[KMart]

Nah. Nor at 16,000 feet. ;)

You could, but I haven't bothered. The Zeph has plenty of power.

[PilotKeeg]

I fly in what many would consider "extreme" wind. Like, 40-60mph. And no, I am not exaggerating. ;) At the takeoff point, it's usually around 8-10mph when I fly, but jumps WAY up once I reach the local mountain range (notoriously turbulent). Bigger winglets REALLY helped.

How much bigger are you talking?

[Danub]

Kmart would you be willing to give up the specs on the winglets that worked for you? Taller. . Longer. . . or both?

[egosession]

Can someone give a short manual and/ or advises about replacing the ritewave?

1. If the 3M90 does its job, the Laminatoin and the ritewave should stick really well on the EPP. I dont think I just can pull it of. How do I remove it then? With the iron maybe?

2. If I would have a painted zeph, I guess the paint will come off with the lam/ritewave... so if I want to do the replacing, then best go without painting? Repainting is maybe an option, but also time consuming.

4. Do I have to remove the complet lamination or could I cut the areas of the ritewave?

5. Do I have to sand the wing befor adding the new ritewave/ lamination?

6. Will replacing add more weight to the wing?

7. What are the benefits of replacing the lamination/ritewave? I guess some points would be: Keeps the wing strong, keeps the wing as new, ... some more?

Maybe it would be nice to integrate the replacing into the Zephyr manual.
__________________________________________________ ____________

A diffrent question: Can I save some 3M90 if I use lightweight spackle to fill up the little holes in the EPP? Or would I weaken the wing because the lam doesnt stick well to spackle?

[brosius85]

first question: why replace it? is it broken?

if you want to remove riteweave spray some fresh 3m90 on it- that will soften it up.

i would not worry about repainting... thats just me...

if you are going to bother replacing the riteweave i would strongly suggest redoing the lam. having joins in it is a bad idea. it is a massive part of the stiffness in these wings. arguably more than the riteweave (if you are doing only a tiny ammount of riteweave)

there is no need to sand the wing, unless you are using filler

as you are inevitably spraying more glue on the wing yes it will get heavier- just go light on the glue if you are concerned about it.

the only thing i would do is re-laminate. it is the part that gets torn/ worn out and shows the age of the wing. do the weave once do it right and you will be golden.

[egosession]

Okey thanks. Your right, it makes more sence just to replace the lamination. I read somewhere that TBS does replace the ritewave/ lamination after some month to keep the wing as new. Probably they just do the lamination and I read it wrong.

[brosius85]

trappy did re do the weave, but that doesnt mean it makes sense :D lol maybe he did have a good reason. hes obviously flown alot more than me

[egosession]

I know, thats why I m asking... does replacing make any sence and what is the process? Maybe its really usefull for some, maybe for others not. But I need to understand it befor to decide if its usefull for me.

[KMart]

Taller and longer. Attached are some pictures for your viewing pleasure. ;) :D

[BloomingtonFPV]

I have a pre-build question that I hope the group will tolerate. Right now I have an Ursus that I'm really enjoying- the launches are easy, it gets great range, and it cruises at 40 mph. However, the wings are somewhat fragile and it really requires a good landing strip.

I believe that the Zephyr is more crashworthy, but before I jump in and spend another $1300 on an fpv ship, I'm hoping that those who have a zephyr could help me decide if this is the right plane for me.

1) Unlike Trappy, I really enjoy the security of a working RTH that my Dragon OSD and FY20a give me. Have people successfully done RTH with a DragonOSD and an FY20a (or any OSD)?

2) How strong are Zephyrs? Could I do a full-throttle power dive and not have it break in half? Keep in mind that I folded my TS2 with extended wings on its maiden so I'm a little sensitive about in-flight structural failures.

3) I really like the new front-mounted gopro rig that Trappy developed. Will it mount in a standard 54" zephyr?

[brosius85]

1: ask tim about his RTH... and weather he ever lost his zeph... IMO RTH is not really worth it. if it adds fun to your flying or build then good, if you are planning on it being rock solid reliable... forget it.

2: zephyrs are strong, but if you plan on doing a full power dive into the ground you will want to fully 3m90 + weave the entire wing, and keep the batteries and motor REALLY small. i would count on it being the most resillient theing you have flown.

3: trappys gopro + cam setup is on a 54, so yes you just have to cut the nose off a bit to mount the way he has. i think you can get a sweet mount in derlin from fpvmanuals.com

[BloomingtonFPV]

On #2 above, I'm talking about doing a power dive in the air, but pulling up before I hit the ground. I just want it to take the stress of the pull-up and any cavitation.

I don't see the delrin mounts yet but it sounds like something he would do.

[brosius85]

i have never heard of someone folding a zeph in flight. and some people build with no weave at all!!! so if you do a bit of weave i would say it is un- foldable.

if you set it up wrong and TRY to fold it you probably could though. maximum elevon travel on a heavy un reiforced build would probably do it. just reinforce it to the measure you plan on flying.

[KMart]

I have DOSD and FY-20 in mine. HAven't set up autopilot yet, but it all works so far. :)

-Kevin

[KMart]

High dives? Gotcha covered. ;)


http://www.vimeo.com/27032596

[Danub]

@kmart thanks for the winglet pics, 1 pic 1000 words. I think i may try it out :)

@BloomingtonFPV. . Maybe this will give you an idea bout the Zeph. First I Have broken one it took FULL THROTTLE into asphalt to do the task. . It weren't easy ;)
RTH and DOSD I can't talk positive bout that. (If you want one cheap PM me, martiny is fixin it now)
Trappy Flies a 54" Zephyr :)
A couple of vidoes of impacts and such. . . None needed any repair to speak of!! I LOVE the durability


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mtzb2KGbkjw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObkLv2RX3a4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Now this one broke the motor mount but no real wing damage!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deIVt3kMK5g&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[egosession]

Good News

Finally I managed to finish my Zeph. Dont ask me why I needed almost two month to finish it. I really never had sutch problems to finish a plane... I barely could decide whats best for my baby... I tell ya, if I gona crash it, I will eat my head!

Good for me its a ritewing, uncrashable... almost ;)

2788

Its a 48" Version. I kinda I regret not ordered a 54" right away. I always need to have it diffrent than others :p:p. But because there isnt a lot of infos about the 48" version, I m curious how she will perform. Maybe there are some more pros than just the transport. And maybe she beats the 54".. bad joke, I know!

Tech specs.

Batt: 2x 3s2200mAh - 2500mah
Motor: Hyperion Z3007-26
ESC. Hyperion Titan 30
Servos: 2x HS-485HB

2790

FPV: EZ OSD, Chainlink UHF, Lawmate 2.4Ghz 500mw Video TX, OSD 420 CAM

27922791

27932789




And dont call me a copier. This is my own design. I invented it and I thought about it long befor others did!:rolleyes: ... No really, I m sorry. I couldnt help it.

And if your not to tired from reading my monolog, here some more explanation why:
Actually I had big big design plans. I wanted to give it the look of a real drone, with panel lines, with weathering, decals, even navigation lights. And I had big success with testing the design on the wing beds. But because this is my first zeph, I think its better to take it easy. This Egobaby will probably crash alot. No need for a beautiful design.

Over and out